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I think, therefore I AM

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posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


No, Earth is not heaven, but it used to be, before we started to destroy it. The universe is heaven, Earth has become hell within heaven because of 'Lucifer's' greed, or our greed.

Good and evil can and do exist together, I know I am good and there are a lot of good people on this planet, but I also know that the ones that run this planet are evil, only thinking of themselves and their profit.

Adam and Eve represent the humans that first gained self-awareness, which is the forbidden fruit. Eden is Earth before we turned it into hell by destroying it for profit Angels also represent humans, but the greedy ones are referred to as Lucifer in the bible, and once they become greedy they cast themselves from heaven because they begin to destroy Earth for their own gain.

Whoever worships the false prophet is sent to hell. The false prophet most likely represents money, and everyone on Earth, except a few, worships money in some way. We are always worried about whether we will be paid or how much we will be payed or how much something costs. We have lost sight of god, of nature, because we are constantly working trying to get paid to live, when we don't need money to live. These greedy people have turned heaven into hell because of their greed and they have dragged everyone else down with them.




edit on 15-7-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


If god can merge Earth with heaven then what makes you think that Earth isn't within heaven? The bible is spoken in metaphors, everything is a metaphor for something completely natural.

Adam and Eve represent early humans who first tasted the forbidden fruit, or who gained self-awareness.

Eden represents Earth before it became hell.

Heaven represents the universe, we are the angels within heaven, and heaven itself is god.

Lucifer/Satan/the devil represents the greedy angels among us who desire power and control, the ones who create hell and are cast from heaven.

Jesus represents the sun, the Earth's messiah. Without the sun/son, life on Earth would not be possible.

Your religion (all religion) is the thing that separates us from god because it teaches us that we are not in the kingdom of god when we really are.

Religion is all about control, it claims to be the way to god when really it is what separates us from it.
edit on 15-7-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


What part of earth being corrupted and heaven being incorruptible did you not understand?

Earth can't reside within heaven if it's corrupted, otherwise it would have made heaven corrupted.

Do you understand now?

God has to create a new heaven and a new earth to make it work.
edit on 15-7-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


Do you honestly believe that with how small Earth is compared to the vastness of the universe, that what happens on Earth affects everything else? Our galaxy isn't even a blip on the radar of the universe, much less Earth.

The bible states that god is unfathomable to us. Guess what, so is the universe. Yet religion claims to be able to fathom how god works and what he wants from us.
edit on 15-7-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined
 


No, Earth is not heaven, but it used to be, before we started to destroy it. The universe is heaven, Earth has become hell within heaven because of 'Lucifer's' greed, or our greed.


Well, earlier you tried to state that earth was in heaven. The universe is "the heavens" of the earth, but it's not God's heaven.


Good and evil can and do exist together, I know I am good and there are a lot of good people on this planet, but I also know that the ones that run this planet are evil, only thinking of themselves and their profit.


Good and evil can co-exist together, but perfection and evil can not.


Adam and Eve represent the humans that first gained self-awareness, which is the forbidden fruit. Eden is Earth before we turned it into hell by destroying it for profit Angels also represent humans, but the greedy ones are referred to as Lucifer in the bible, and once they become greedy they cast themselves from heaven because they begin to destroy Earth for their own gain.


Angels don't represent humans. You might want to do some research on the spirit realm or spirit world. They live in a different realm.


Whoever worships the false prophet is sent to hell. The false prophet most likely represents money, and everyone on Earth, except a few, worships money in some way. We are always worried about whether we will be paid or how much we will be payed or how much something costs. We have lost sight of god, of nature, because we are constantly working trying to get paid to live, when we don't need money to live. These greedy people have turned heaven into hell because of their greed and they have dragged everyone else down with them.


And just how do you think God plans on separating the good from the evil people?




edit on 15-7-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


I stated that Earth used to be part of heaven, it used to be perfect until we started to destroy it and manipulate one another. Earth would still be heaven on Earth if we respected one another and nature, but we do not, that is why it is considered hell.

What do you think our consciousness is? It is the non-physical realm, we humans lie both in the physical and non-physical realms of the universe because we have both a body and a spirit, so yes we are angels in biblical terms.

Earth is such a tiny tiny fraction of a fraction of a fraction (ad nauseum) of the universe that what happens on Earth is nothing. It will go completely unnoticed to anyone outside of even our solar system forever.

So yes, perfection and imperfection can and do coexist. The universe/heaven is proof of this. It is so unfathomably huge and complex that it must be perfect to exist, yet humans are still imperfect.

ETA: I have a theory on what the rapture is in the bible. The rapture is described as when Jesus comes back to take believers to heaven. If Jesus represents the sun then it's possible that the sun is getting more active and hotter, when it gets more active, it flips the Earth's magnetic field which leaves us more susceptible to its radiation.

The sun is hotter now than I ever remember it being, and the world seems to be getting crazier and crazier. This is because this magnetic shift affects everyones brains and that is why people are finally waking up to the reality that we live in.
edit on 15-7-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What do you think our consciousness is? It is the non-physical realm, we humans lie both in the physical and non-physical realms of the universe because we have both a body and a spirit, so yes we are angels in biblical terms.


Our consciousness allows us to be aware of a non-physical realm, it doesn't mean we're living in it. Yes, we have a body and a spirit, but our spirit lives on, our bodies do not. We don't enter God's kingdom until we shed our bodies in case you didn't understand the previous scripture I quoted, which it doesn't appear that you understand the Bible at all, otherwise you would know that we are not angels in Biblical terms.


Earth is such a tiny tiny fraction of a fraction of a fraction (ad nauseum) of the universe that what happens on Earth is nothing. It will go completely unnoticed to anyone outside of even our solar system forever.


That's funny, earlier in this thread you made it sound like we were able to create everything with our brain. So, I guess you realize that's not the case now.


So yes, perfection and imperfection can and do coexist. The universe/heaven is proof of this. It is so unfathomably huge and complex that it must be perfect to exist, yet humans are still imperfect.


I've got news for you, the universe doesn't need the earth in order to exist. However, the earth needs the universe in order to exist.

Yes, humans are still imperfect. What's makes you think that they will ever be perfect as long as they reside in their earthly bodies?

You still haven't answered my question as to how you think that earth or humans will resolve their issues and become perfect or what happens to the evil people in order that they become perfect.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 





Our consciousness allows us to be aware of a non-physical realm, it doesn't mean we're living in it.


We are not living in a realm based upon the subconscious, the unconscious, or anything else wise. We are based in a realm centered on materialism. This much is obvious to anyone who observes the active world of today.

Despite your obvious prejudice, which is clear regarding spiritual matters, I do not believe that any being that is omniscient would judge its creation so harshly. ITS CREATION. It is simply cruel. And if you accept it, then that simply means that you are willing to abide by anything so long as that thing makes sure that your life is in safe hands. Even further, your life in safe hands means that this deity will ensure that your life is not coincidence, but part of a plan, because you fear randomness and mere chance, even unto death.

I apologize for my inebriation, but it does not detract at all from my understanding of life and the universe.
edit on 15-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity

Despite your obvious prejudice, which is clear regarding spiritual matters, I do not believe that any being that is omniscient would judge its creation so harshly. ITS CREATION. It is simply cruel. And if you accept it, then that simply means that you are willing to abide by anything so long as that thing makes sure that your life is in safe hands. Even further, your life in safe hands means that this deity will ensure that your life is not coincidence, but part of a plan, because you fear randomness and mere chance, even unto death.


It's not that I fear randomness or chance, it's just I've seen what man is capable of when left to his own devices and self conceived notions of "wisdom" or "knowledge". Man corrupts everything it interferes in.


I apologize for my inebriation, but it does not detract at all from my understanding of life and the universe.


Probably not, but your understanding based on what you've researched verses that which you are capable of experiencing, seem to be worlds apart.

Since I've never received answers from you on your spiritual experiences, I'm going to just assume that you've never had any and that everything you've learned is purely from study?



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


Our conscience perceives the physical world through our physical bodies. I'll put it this way, our minds and our spirits are part of the spiritual realm, our bodies are part of thephysical realm, each one relies on the other to exist. Without our bodies for our spirits to reside in, the spirit would not exist and vice versa. When our spirits start to desire physical things more than what truly matters that is when we turn into Lucifer.

Lucifer was an angel at some point was he not? The greatest angel in fact, just as humans are the greatest 'angels' on Earth, because we have the best ability to change things for the better, but we do not. Some desire money more than anything else, and that goes for the majority of humans, especially those that run religion.

Our brains do create the world around us, but that doesn't mean that if you or I were never born that the world wouldn't exist. You are debating semantics now.

What exactly is your point here? You just answered your previous point for me right here. You just contradicted yourself.

I edited my previous post to address your last point. I forgot to answer it before I hit post. I'm not sure how to break up quotes into sections.




edit on 15-7-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




ETA: I have a theory on what the rapture is in the bible. The rapture is described as when Jesus comes back to take believers to heaven. If Jesus represents the sun then it's possible that the sun is getting more active and hotter, when it gets more active, it flips the Earth's magnetic field which leaves us more susceptible to its radiation.

The sun is hotter now than I ever remember it being, and the world seems to be getting crazier and crazier. This is because this magnetic shift affects everyones brains and that is why people are finally waking up to the reality that we live in.


What does this answer have to do with anything?

How does the current sun cycle have anything to do with thousands of years of man proving to be corrupt?

Or are you just trying to tell me that this life, as you know it, is all that there is and you can either make it your own heaven or hell based on what you believe in your mind because there really isn't an afterlife?



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


'Man corrupts everything.' That sounds a lot like what Satan would do, would you agree.

How do you plan on learning anything if you do not study it? That is a silly statement, you cannot learn anything without first studying it.

You are being extremely prejudice in this debate, you aren't willing to accept any evidence contrary to your belief no matter, even if it makes perfect sense. Your fear of hell drives you to reject all evidence because your subconscience fears what may happen if it turns out to be true, and what will happen in your mind is you will go to hell. Religion uses the fear of hell against its followers in order to conform them to what they desire.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


I never said that there was no afterlife, I believe there is, but it's a little different from what you believe. I believe in reincarnation.

Jesus says in the bible that in order to get into heaven, you must be 'born again'. If we truly are reincarnated, we are literally 'born again' back into this universe, which is heaven.

You are clearly clutching at straws now, assuming things that are not true. That is evidence of you backpedaling.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

'Man corrupts everything.' That sounds a lot like what Satan would do, would you agree.


Yes, but I don't understand how that means that we're not influenced by him. We have free will to follow his influences or reject them. Unfortunately, most people choose not to reject his influences. Because of this, the whole world has become corrupt.


How do you plan on learning anything if you do not study it? That is a silly statement, you cannot learn anything without first studying it.


Yes, but the mind only allows you to learn so much without spiritual experiences. This is why man's knowledge was not the same as God's knowledge. To experience God's knowledge, we have to have access to the Holy Spirit.


You are being extremely prejudice in this debate, you aren't willing to accept any evidence contrary to your belief no matter, even if it makes perfect sense.


Except nothing you've provided here constitutes proof or makes sense to me. My evidence lies within my spiritual experiences, not anything anyone has told me.


Your fear of hell drives you to reject all evidence because your subconscience fears what may happen if it turns out to be true, and what will happen in your mind is you will go to hell. Religion uses the fear of hell against its followers in order to conform them to what they desire.


My religion doesn't conform me to what they desire, but my spiritual experiences do dictate to that which I believe in.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I never said that there was no afterlife, I believe there is, but it's a little different from what you believe. I believe in reincarnation.


Just out of curiosity, if you believe in reincarnation, can you honestly say that it's improved anything? What evidence do you see that reincarnation is bettering mankind?


Jesus says in the bible that in order to get into heaven, you must be 'born again'. If we truly are reincarnated, we are literally 'born again' back into this universe, which is heaven.


Yes, Jesus said you must be born again by way of the HOLY SPIRIT. It's a spiritual transformation, not a physical one.

So, when you are born again back into the universe, what part of the universe are you going to?


You are clearly clutching at straws now, assuming things that are not true. That is evidence of you backpedaling.


I'm not backpedaling, what else was I supposed to assume since you had never mentioned that you believed in reincarnation before now? In all honesty, I was expecting you to tell me that this current sun cycle was going to miraculously transform everyone's current body and mind state.
edit on 15-7-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




'Man corrupts everything.' That sounds a lot like what Satan would do, would you agree.


I wouldn't agree. By mans own will, he can choose whether to corrupt or uphold.



How do you plan on learning anything if you do not study it? That is a silly statement, you cannot learn anything without first studying it.


You can learn by experience. When Brother was sent here, he had to learn how to be a human before he started his ministry. He knew how it was to be a man from observance, but he truly knew how to be a man, once he was in the flesh.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


Satan is our desire for physical things like money, when that desire consumes us, we become the biblical 'Lucifer', the angel that desired too much.

It doesn't make sense to you because you refuse to make sense of it. In your mind, if you do make sense of it, your soul will be lost and you will go to hell. Your subconscious fear of hell blocks you from making sense of it.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

It doesn't make sense to you because you refuse to make sense of it. In your mind, if you do make sense of it, your soul will be lost and you will go to hell. Your subconscious fear of hell blocks you from making sense of it.


Now you're the one assuming, but I've already told you why I believe what I do.

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear as though you've had any spiritual experiences of your own either.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


What evidence is there that shows your god is making mankind any better? In fact, your god is the reason for countless wars that have been fought throughout history. The world is the way it is, there's no denying that.

There's no way to know where you are reincarnated, it could be right next door in this galaxy or it could be on the complete opposite side of the universe. When you are reincarnated, you have no memory of your former life so there is no way of knowing.

The suns cycle is transforming our minds, why do you think all these protests are happening across the world? Because people are waking up to the corruption that is taking place.

Your spirit does transform when you are reincarnated, your spirit transforms into another person or things spirit.


edit on 15-7-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


What I said was an assumption, but my assumption is from experience. I was raised in a christian home. I was taught that hell was real and that I didn't want to go there and I grew up a christian and even went to church, but I have since awoken to the truth.

I have had spiritual experiences, and that is how I have come to this conclusion. Another assumption that has no ground.



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