evolution is the same as mutation radiation speeds this process up

very interesting answers on here

Originally posted by Sparky63

Originally posted by jiggerj

Yes, the right elements joined to form the living cell, but these elements are dumb!

Carbon doesn't have a pocket where the information is held to teach a cell how to split into two cells.
Nitrogen doesn't hold the secret of how to make chromosomes recreate themselves in exact size and detail, and with the exact same information as the original chromosomes.
Oxygen doesn't know how to build an energy plant like the mitochondria.
Hydrogen can't teach the RNA in a cell how to read the information in a string of DNA.

The INFORMATION contained in a living cell is so vast, and yet none of it can be found in these dumb elements.
The evolution of a cell cannot go: 1. Dumb slime 2. Dumb slime 3. SUPER INTELLIGENT INFORMATION!

Very well put. This is along the same line of reasoning that led me to reject the tired old explanations of the origin of life that I was taught all through school and then college. I don't care how many random combinations of elements and molecules you throw together, there is just no way for the coded information needed for even the simplest of living cells to exist, to come about by random chance. It is more reasonable to believe in an intelligent designer that to exercise faith in the current scientific explanation.

I have taken an honest look at both sides of the coin and am satisfied with the conclusions I have reached. If and when scientists duplicate abiogenesis I will reconsider.
Good thread and interesting topic. I look forward to the views from both camps.

Leave it to Curly to explain my thoughts better then me!

Originally posted by NorEaster
every event causes the fact of that event's occurrence to emerge.

Hey, if I had 20 or 40 more I.Q. points I'd toe to toe with you. But I don't, so I won't.

Just please explain this part. This sounds like your saying the creation of the first living cell actually caused the creation of the first living cell. Is that what you're saying?

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13

Originally posted by jiggerj

Even the plasma material isn't enough. How did the INFORMATION to build the DNA and mitochondria get into this plasma?

THE CREATOR

You have no idea how much I want to argue with that. But I can't! Instead, I have to go with, who or what created the creator. I simply will NOT buy that he/she/it always was and always will be.

That is the limitation with the thoughts of man. There are hierarchies of consciousness. Humans are relatively low in this hierarchy.

Most often when people refer to the One God, they are referring to the totality consciousness or the sum total of EVERYTHING...

He controls Himself as much as we control ourselves. Do you control every single cell of your body? but you can guide them through your choices.

The Totality consciousness is as impossible for humans to comprehend as it is for an ant to understand human consciousness. Some is revealed to us through the portions of our higher selves that reside with the seat of the Totality consciousness, but humans are limited in the possibility of understanding while trapped in meat sacks.

Jaden

Yep, jiggerj, you're on the right track.

Scientists will manage to kill us all before they ever unlock the secrets of infinity. I'm not anti-science, I'm just aware it has its limits and large children shouldn't be allowed to dabble in it.

And speaking of infinity, add to that the questions of paradox and consciousness and we see that science has virtually no answer to those three very telling clues.

Those--and other clues--such as a clockwork universe fine-tuned for us paradoxical consciousnesses adrift in infinity suggest to the chagrin of science, a Creator after all.

S&F for your efforts and an interesting OP.

Originally posted by DaveNorris
all cells are made from the elements, out of the billions of differant combinations of these elements there is at least one combination that can make up primative cells, all of these differant combinations would be played out at some point or another given enough time. and if theres one thing we know about the universe its that it has been around for a while.

edit on 11/7/2012 by DaveNorris because: (no reason given)

Quite to the contrary, it's a mathematic impossibility life forms by random chance. Life uses only lefthanded amindo acids. In nature both left and right handed amino acids are created with equal probablility. It is a proven mathematical impossibility given the age of the universe that this could happen by random chance. This is only 1 peice of the puzzle, there are others that stretch credulity to imagine them happening randomly. Either we need to find something that changes the odds, or it did not happen by chance. There has been demonstrated ways to improve the odds, so that rather than a 50:50 ratio we would have 47:53 in favor of Left handed amino acids. This does not tip the scale enough.

Originally posted by DaveNorris
ok, so evolution doesnt have all the answers, its still more beleivable than a bearded man in the clouds .

although there is a third option. the only way i can think of to get something from nothing is if at some point in the future time travel is used (deliberately?/accidently?/naturally?/artificial?) and something from the future travels back to the past creating a never ending loop.

There would be nothing ever evolving for that initial future to begin.

Originally posted by jaxnmarko
Have you ever heard the one about..... if you had enough monkeys and enough time, eventually all the works of Shakespeare would be typed out by them?

Do you believe everything you hear? Not in the amount of years we have had or with the monkeys that have lived.

Random chance, billions of years, uncounted unsuccessful chemical reactions and lightning or what have you......

With the numer of years the universe is believed to have existed, with the years Earth is belived to have existed, it is a mathematical impossibility that it would happen by random chance just on the amino acid count alone. Add in other factors and it is less likely still.

its like Drake's equation. Given enough stars and time, there will be life somewhere.

It's nice you have heard the name Drak'es equation. What if I told you Drake's equation proves there is no life anywhere else? You do realize that Drake's equation gives no results unless you plug in imaginary numbers that don't exist. It's like me telling you that you are getting back $1million from the IRS because of the tax equations. Only problem is that I had no actual tax data and I just plugged in numbers. Welcome to Drake's equation, reality is your tax refund won't be $1million.

It's only because we are so egocentric that we feel its US its all about.

Or is it because there is zero evidence of life anywhere else? All ET life is wishful thinking, the actual evidence in support of ET life is nil.

So, given time and enough chemicals bouncing around under various conditions, here we are! Or, if you think its God's plan..... I'd have to say.... wow, you really meant for all this to happen?

As I already explained, not enough time exists in the entire universe for that to be true, not even close. If you don't think it is God's plan, then what is it? Don't give me time and chemicals, it's mathematically impossible. Fairies and Unicorns dancing in your living room right now is just as likely. Go take a look and let me know if you see any of them.

As to what I think, that's not really relevant, I would prefer to stick with science and facts here in this forum.