reply to post by lonewolf19792000
Since you are constantly bringing up the fact that no one is addressing your original post, I thought I'd do so. I'm sorry, but your 7 months or
whatever of research has been almost completely wasted.
First off, it is a bit intellectually dishonest to show random images and image macros with no references and explanations, and then make claims about
them. Heck, when EricD asked you about one of them, you had to tell him plainly that you had no idea. This doesn't seem like 7 months of research well
Anyhow, I am sure you know my area of expertise, so you know what I'll be focusing on. Considering the biased nature of the sources, I'm sure the
Catholic side of stuff is equally false, but I'm sure someone with better knowledge of that can handle that, so I'll mostly ignore it. I'll be
providing sources for every claim I make, but if I am countering one of your claims, obviously, I cannot provide a sourced reference to a negative (if
you say "sometimes the sun rises in the north", while I can find many sources that say the sun rises in the east, and maybe even some that say it may
possibly have, or in the future will rise in the west, obviously I am not going to find a source that says "The sun DOESN'T rise in the north"), so
it'd be on you to provide a reference for that. For matters of Islamic belief, I'll refer to the Islamic scripture and unless you provide another
reference from the same scripture, you can't really contradict that. I hope you understand that providing a reference to some Christian scholar of
Islam, who almost certainly has a point to grind against islam, is not an accurate rebuttal of a reference to the Islamic scriptures themselves. For
historical matters I'll go to other references, unless the scripture is relevant there.
So. To begin:
In Islam Allah is the "King of Heaven"
It is a bit deceitful to put it like that, no? Sure, in Islam, Allah is the "King of Heaven", but there is no such exclusive title anywhere in the
texts. The closest you can get is one of his titles being "King" or "Lord" and the use of "Lord of the Heavens and the Earth" (رَبِّ
السَّمَاءِ وَالْأَرْضِ from Surah 51:23
if you want the arabic for some reason). As an exclusive title, "King
of Heaven" is a LOT more closely associated with Christianity than with Islam.
according to archeaological artifacts found a moongod
False again, but since you go into greater detail on this point later, I'll get to it later.
what we have is a crescent moon symbol for Allah
Where on earth did you get the idea that the crescent moon is a symbol for Allah? Sorry, absolutely false, and ridiculous.
See, this is the problem with so much discussion on here. People jump at superficialities without even looking into them, and then no matter how many
times someone proves them wrong, they just keep going on with them, because it is easier to parrot pre-built thoughts and word-groups than critically
think on anything.
In no sense could the crescent moon be considered a symbol for Allah. If one were ignorant, they could think it is a symbol for Islam (they'd still be
wrong), but it is certainly not a symbol for God (Surah Al-Baqara(2), verse 189
, Surah Al-Hajj(22) verse 18
and Surah Fussilat(41) verse 37
). Trying to put symbols for God is what leads towards idolatory (see christian veneration for the
cross), which Islam is very strongly against. There are absolutely no symbolic or pictorial representations of God.
Islam has no reference to or requirement for crescent moon symbolic representation. The Crescent moon was a symbol of the Byzantians, from who the
Turks supposedly took it as their symbol. Read "TURKS", Not Muslims/Islam. The fact that the Ottoman Empire ruled most of the "muslim world" is the
reason for the preponderance of the crescent moon symbol in the muslim world, not any Islamic injunction
Next you show a number of images. The one I want to call attention to is the one that starts with "Allat the Triple Moon Goddess". First off, I really
would like a reference to where this picture is from and what on earth it is, because it looks like a badly done photoshop to me. Where was the image
on the left found? Where was the image on the right found?
Secondly, and I'm sorry for shattering your carefully constructed list of similarities, but Allat was the Goddess of the Underworld
(VolIII, ChapII, pg124 and pg218- of History of Egypt, Chaldea, Syria, Babylonia and Assyria
by Gasto Maspero, and
VolI, Chap1, §6, pg83 of A History of Art in Chaldæa & Assyria
by Georges Perrot & Charles Chipiez (t. Walter
Armstrong)). Had nothing to do with "triple moons", whatsoever.
Stone idol of Allah discovered at an archeaological dig site in the M.E. , notice the crescent moon in his chest?
Now we come back to the point you made earlier. Your image, which again is not referenced, but since I have encountered it numerous times in
discussions with the ridiculous "moon-god" theory, I know it is from the works of Robert Morey, probably culled from the secondary source of bible.ca.
Robert Morey, by the way, has been totally outed as a quack. His website claims
he got a DD and a
PhD in Islamic studies from Faith Theological Seminary and Louisiana Baptist University,
neither of which
offer any such degree
. In fact, Faith Freedom
ever giving him any degree, and LBU is an
that is a known degree mill (mentioned in
Steve Levicoff's Name It and Frame It?: New Opportunities in Adult Education and How to Avoid Being Ripped Off by 'Christian Degree'
). Outside of academics, Robert Morey was pastor at Faith Community Church in California, before he was
due to immoral behaviour
involving church money.
Anyhow, apologies for that digression, I just wanted to point out where your information is coming from. Lets look into the history of that statue for
a bit, yes? The text in your image says "History proves that before Islam came into existance, the Sabeans in Arabia worshipped the moon-god who was
married to the sun-goddess". This is irrelevant, and for that matter, not even true. What have the Sabeans
(who were from the region now known as Yemen
, so kinda irrelevant to any discussion about Allah
being the moon-god) got to do with anything? Also, the Sabeans worshipped Ilmaqah, who was a sun god as well as many other astral deities (All of
The Old South Arabian Religion
by Jacques Ryckmans).
As for the statue excavated in Hazor, there is no consensus it is a deity of any kind. Yigael Yadin who was the one who conducted the excavation, said
it was a "Basalt statue of deity or king from the stelae temple" ( VolII, pg476, Encyclopedia Of Archaeological Excavations In The Holy
by Michael Avi-Yonah), while others say "It depicts a man, possibly a priest, seated on a cubelike stool. He is beardless with a
shaven head; his skirt ends below his knees in an accentuated hen; his feet are bare. He holds a cup in his right hand, while his left hand, clenched
into a fist, rests on his left knee. An inverted crescent is suspended from his necklace." ( pg107, Treasures Of The Holy Land: Ancient
Art From The Israel Museum
(Ed. J. P. O'Neill)).
So sorry, nothing about Allah here.
As for the picture you posted of the Black Stone, again, I fail to see the reference. It is believed to be a meteorite, and has nothing to do with any
crescent moon or star. Muslims certainly don't worship it (Volume 2, Kitab al-Hajj (Book 26), Number 667
Then you also quote a passage and claim
This is an old excerpt from an older Quran
Again, sorry, but there is no "older Quran" from which this is an exerpt. You won't find any such thing at all. The verses refer to the controversial
(and what most consider inauthentic -due to broken
chains of narration
and other issues). Whatever your opinions on the satanic verses incident, however, to claim that what you quoted is from an
"older Quran" is complete BS, because the Quran wasn't even completed by the time this incident is alleged to have taken place, and even according to
the story, it was "corrected" almost immediately. If there is any shred of truth in this claim of yours, I'd be very interested in seeing the source
of this claim of an "older Quran".
So there you have it. Each and every one of your points proven wrong or invalidated, AND with references. I'll be most interested in hearing your
response to these points, and what sort of references and sources you use.
edit on 12-7-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)