The Bright and Morning Star "Mary" Queen of Heaven and husband Allah

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


That is a straw-man argument. Let us go back to the Sumerians and we get: polytheism! Let us go further we get: polytheism and animism! We get the goddess, we get fertility figurines. Restrictive monotheists cannot revert to facts or evidence so they say: we don't know what they believed in the beginning!

Well, we can reconstruct through archeology and the study or primitive communties. Guess what, it isnt monotheistic. We can go to the earliest writings: again, polytheism.

The Sumerians could have been dead wrong!? Indeed, they were, but so are you and your christian opponents.

If you want me to believe in holy books that claim a god creatd the world in six days and people have to bow towards a cube in Arabia to be saved over hundreds of years of scientific and historical research, then I must politely decline friend.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
What name calling?

Yours -

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
This pseudo-historian / fraudster is the original source of those ridiculous ideas which you posted as "evidence".

So, I'm calling them loons because they are loons... not because I simply disagree with him. You can cling on to his lies and nonsensical theories.

"Pseudo-historian", "fraudster", "ridiculous", "loons", and "nonsensical" are all insulting terms. You know, name-calling.

As for "pseudo-history", well, I could post a lot that I have heard from people that would agree with you, but what would be the point. You would defend it as truth. Clearly, the facts are not as important as your perceptions and misconceptions, so I see no reason to bother. Debate the OP if you disagree, and don't assume that I posted the thread, just because I commented on it. I didn't, FYI, post any of that stuff. Pay attention.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

"Pseudo-historian", "fraudster", "ridiculous", "loons", and "nonsensical" are all insulting terms. You know, name-calling.

Thats because Robert Morey IS a fraudster and a pseudo-historian... because of all his fake degrees and financial frauds. I don't know about you, but where I live, a guy making bogus claims of degrees would be called a "fraud" and would be in serious trouble with the law.

Debate the OP if you disagree, and don't assume that I posted the thread, just because I commented on it.

Of course you didn't post the thread. But I'm responding to your posts about the "moon god" idea by showing you why its bogus... because its the fabrication of a guy with FAKE PhDs and degrees.

If I had fake degrees and PhDs and I wrote a book saying "Jesus is actually Krishna"... would you take me seriously?
No?
So then, there is no reason to take Robert Moreys "moon-god" ideas seriosly, as well.

Originally posted by seen2much
El/Il/Allah/Elohim had consorts before the emergence of restrictive monotheism. Yahweh also had a wife. You folks should do some research into ancient Near Eastern belief.

However, if you are a devout christian or muslim don't. Once opened, your eyes will never look at scripture the same.

I've already looked into that and Yahveh did not have a wife, the Cannanites claimed he did but it's a play on future events. People were making outlandish claims based on religions that came from what Nimrod or Ninus of Nineveh and his mother/wife Semiramis started when they instituted themselves as the sungod and moongoddess deities and people started making idols and worshipping objects they made with their hands. Thats why the Roman Catholic Church contradicts itself when they say their trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, yet they call Mary the "Queen of Heaven" which is a title that Semiramis took for herself who is the same person that the Babylonian goddess Ishtar was based on, and she was also known as Astarte or Ashtoreth recorded in 1 Kings 11:5 when king Solomon turned towards worshipping her which Yahveh forbade.

Was judaism originally a pagan religion? Yes it was, the word pagan means "local" and nations back then each had their own national god or goddess they worshipped. Sidon had Ashtoreth, Canaan worshipped Ba'al, Thrace had Cybele, Midia at Mecca had Hu'bal (Allah), Babylon had Marduk, Egypt had Amun Ra, Israel had Yahveh, Greece Zeus. So is your statement made to cause christians to fear or lose faith? Do you really want to see what all the other gods were? What is recorded in the bible is this. Prophet Isaiah already addressed this issue after Israel (northern kingdom) had already become infected with idolatry. This is what he had to say:

Isaiah 2:5-9

5 O house of Jacob, come and let us walk
In the light of the Lord.

6 For You have forsaken Your people, the house of Jacob,
Because they are filled with eastern ways;
They are soothsayers like the Philistines,
And they are pleased with the children of foreigners.
7 Their land is also full of silver and gold,
And there is no end to their treasures;
Their land is also full of horses,
And there is no end to their chariots.
8 Their land is also full of idols;
They worship the work of their own hands,
That which their own fingers have made.
9 People bow down,
And each man humbles himself;
Therefore do not forgive them.



Their gods were nothing but statues that couldn't move or talk on their own, nor do anything good. We got the Livign God, he could do all that on his own.

So, we already know what was going on because it was recorded. Cool attempted fearbomb but: FAIL .

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Are you serious? People started making idols after Nimrod? I am pretty sure they were there before, check your history books (any of them).

Yahweh did have a wife, as you admit (and try not to at the same time). Yahweh had a wife as did El/Allah/Eloh. Read about the famous discovery at:

Ze’ev Meshel, Kuntillet ‘Ajrud: An Israelite Religious Center in Northern Sinai, Expedition 20 (Summer 1978), pp. 50–55

This inscription is from the 8th century when the Canaanites had already become the Israelite and Judahite communities. So you cannot place it before King David.

A fear bomb? lol Why do you religious folks dwell so much on violence -- oh I forgot, you read scripture.

By the way, saying Hubal is Allah is like saying Elohim is Baal. Allah (God) comes from Al-Lah which is from

ilah (Arabic)

with other semitic cognates ilum (Akk.) Eloh/El (NorthWestern Semetic -- Hebrew, Canaanite (weird how they had the same language and all considering the Bible says they were worlds a part), Alah (Syriac) etc....

Claiming Nimrod initiated idol worship flies in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It as foolish as claiming that a woman was created from a man's rib or that dinosaurs walked with man.

reply to post by seen2much

This inscription is from the 8th century when the Canaanites had already become the Israelite and Judahite communities. So you cannot place it before King David.

Sorry but no, the canaanites were almost completely exterminated. What are you trying to prove? Did i not address that israel had a problem with idolatry? It started at the very beginning with the golden calf, but even that that wasn't the first real time they came across idols and made them and used them, they did come out of Egypt after their slavery and Egypt was rampant with idols. Canaanites didn't "become" anything but extinct. When nations made war against eachother, in most cases concerning that region they were completely wiped out, men slaughtered, girls under the age of child bearing and male children old enough to hold a sword also killed so that they didn't grow up plotting revenge. Maybe you don't correctly understand what monotheism is. Monotheism is the belief in ONE GOD. Did monotheism occur in other regions? Why yes ofcourse it did, it also arose in Persia 600-400 B.C. called Zoroastrianism, and their god was called Ahura Mazda. Captain Obvious, you have a knack for stating things we already know. BTW Yahveh doesn't have a wife, because he doesn't get wedded until before the millenial reign and she is called New Jerusalem when she comes.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Please cite one modern (respectable) historical source that the Canaanites were exterminated. There is no archeological evidence for it. The only source that cites the genocidal model is the Bible -- by the way the extermination model in Joshua is contradicted by that found in Judges.

Canaanite and Hebrew are basically the same language more or less, any respectable scholar acknowledges this. Many would claim that they were the same people. What books have you read?

It seems you have a problem with history.

Yes, I know about Zoroaster. It was contact with that religion that the concept of the resurrection of the dead and the day of judgement were formed. THe afterlife in the Tanakh was more similar to hades, a land of shadows. It is only after the time of Daniel (written during Persian rule, surprise) that the concept of the ressurection comes. By Jesus' time, we get hell and heaven.

By the way, we have proof of idolatry, polytheism, and animism way before 600 BC, even before 6000 BC, even before.....

[

You statd: BTW Yahveh doesn't have a wife, because he doesn't get wedded until before the millenial reign and she is called New Jerusalem when she comes. -- end quote.

Wow. Yahweh, as I cited earlier was already married (read the source), you can find the glyph on the web. That glyph is proof, not a shady prophecy.

Before he gets hitched again, tell me, will he have a bachelor party? Is the tribulation it? That is going to be one sick party.

I

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

"Pseudo-historian", "fraudster", "ridiculous", "loons", and "nonsensical" are all insulting terms. You know, name-calling.

Thats because Robert Morey IS a fraudster and a pseudo-historian... because of all his fake degrees and financial frauds. I don't know about you, but where I live, a guy making bogus claims of degrees would be called a "fraud" and would be in serious trouble with the law.

So, now, instead of pretending you didn't call names, you offer excuses for doing so. Go figure.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

Debate the OP if you disagree, and don't assume that I posted the thread, just because I commented on it.

Of course you didn't post the thread. But I'm responding to your posts about the "moon god" idea by showing you why its bogus... because its the fabrication of a guy with FAKE PhDs and degrees.

If I had fake degrees and PhDs and I wrote a book saying "Jesus is actually Krishna"... would you take me seriously?
No?
So then, there is no reason to take Robert Moreys "moon-god" ideas seriosly, as well.

What posts would those be? Quote them. Plus, there are a LOT of people that have researched this issue, and more evidence on it has been presented here for you. You choose to disregard it. You don't disprove it, or even attempt to address any of the many points raised (by other people, since I wasn't discussing that portion of the OP.....). Instead, you insult people, claim all sources are bogus, and so forth. Clearly, you aren't able to debate. Go discuss this stuff with someone else, who was actually addressing that part of the topic.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I've already looked into that and Yahveh did not have a wife, the Cannanites claimed he did but it's a play on future events. People were making outlandish claims based on religions that came from what Nimrod or Ninus of Nineveh and his mother/wife Semiramis started when they instituted themselves as the sungod and moongoddess deities and people started making idols and worshipping objects they made with their hands. Thats why the Roman Catholic Church contradicts itself when they say their trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, yet they call Mary the "Queen of Heaven" which is a title that Semiramis took for herself who is the same person that the Babylonian goddess Ishtar was based on, and she was also known as Astarte or Ashtoreth recorded in 1 Kings 11:5 when king Solomon turned towards worshipping her which Yahveh forbade.*snip*

Applause! I wanted a little clapping smilie, but couldn't find one. Good research, and very accurate. If interested, I know of a really good video series on that issue, and how those old Nimrod-era beliefs have come through time, and are even around today.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I've already looked into that and Yahveh did not have a wife, the Cannanites claimed he did but it's a play on future events. People were making outlandish claims based on religions that came from what Nimrod or Ninus of Nineveh and his mother/wife Semiramis started when they instituted themselves as the sungod and moongoddess deities and people started making idols and worshipping objects they made with their hands. Thats why the Roman Catholic Church contradicts itself when they say their trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, yet they call Mary the "Queen of Heaven" which is a title that Semiramis took for herself who is the same person that the Babylonian goddess Ishtar was based on, and she was also known as Astarte or Ashtoreth recorded in 1 Kings 11:5 when king Solomon turned towards worshipping her which Yahveh forbade.*snip*

Applause! I wanted a little clapping smilie, but couldn't find one. Good research, and very accurate. If interested, I know of a really good video series on that issue, and how those old Nimrod-era beliefs have come through time, and are even around today.

Yeah, you can shoot it to me in a pm and i'll take a gander at it. Biblically that's why Mystery Babylon the Mother of Harlots is such a mystery, people don't know ancient history and ancient religions. In biblical prophecy "women" are often referred to as religions, not literal women, it's allegory. Mystery Babylon is a "woman" which would mean a religion, that spawned little daughter harlot religions for the purpose of hiding the real truth. The Beast she rides on, is an empire. Revelation 17:9-11 is a timeline given so we'd know how close we are to the return of Christ, we may not know the day or hour but he left clues to know the season. This crap going on in the M.E. right now with the arab spring, is the 8th head of the Beast rising to power, a.k.a. the Islamic Calpihate which would likely be a reborn Ottoman empire forged by the muslim brotherhood. People were saying for the last 2000 years that Jesus would return soon but because of the Dark Ages in which learning to read and write were outlawed and reading the scriptures was decreed a mortal sin by Rome, they were lacking one huge component, that being the history of Israel.

Originally posted by seen2much
If you want me to believe in holy books . . .

? ? ? During your whole life has anyone told you
that you must convert your religion ?
It's a personal path, no one else cares what you believe.
Just respect others in their decision.
For each their own, end the colonialism.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
The only reason there are similarities between Judeo-Christian beliefs and Islam is that Islam took material from those.

Similarities are many # 1 Jesus peace be upon him
#2 Abraham #3 Moses #4 History #5 Planet Earth . . . .
who took 'what' is irrelevant, learn to share.
And respect others in their choice.

_________________________

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I've already looked into that and Yahveh did not have a wife, the Cannanites claimed he did but it's a play on future events. People were making outlandish claims based on religions that came from what Nimrod or Ninus of Nineveh and his mother/wife Semiramis started when they instituted themselves as the sungod and moongoddess deities and people started making idols and worshipping objects they made with their hands. Thats why the Roman Catholic Church contradicts itself when they say their trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, yet they call Mary the "Queen of Heaven" which is a title that Semiramis took for herself who is the same person that the Babylonian goddess Ishtar was based on, and she was also known as Astarte or Ashtoreth recorded in 1 Kings 11:5 when king Solomon turned towards worshipping her which Yahveh forbade.*snip*

Applause! I wanted a little clapping smilie, but couldn't find one. Good research, and very accurate. If interested, I know of a really good video series on that issue, and how those old Nimrod-era beliefs have come through time, and are even around today.

Yeah, you can shoot it to me in a pm and i'll take a gander at it. Biblically that's why Mystery Babylon the Mother of Harlots is such a mystery, people don't know ancient history and ancient religions. In biblical prophecy "women" are often referred to as religions, not literal women, it's allegory. Mystery Babylon is a "woman" which would mean a religion, that spawned little daughter harlot religions for the purpose of hiding the real truth. The Beast she rides on, is an empire. Revelation 17:9-11 is a timeline given so we'd know how close we are to the return of Christ, we may not know the day or hour but he left clues to know the season. This crap going on in the M.E. right now with the arab spring, is the 8th head of the Beast rising to power, a.k.a. the Islamic Calpihate which would likely be a reborn Ottoman empire forged by the muslim brotherhood. People were saying for the last 2000 years that Jesus would return soon but because of the Dark Ages in which learning to read and write were outlawed and reading the scriptures was decreed a mortal sin by Rome, they were lacking one huge component, that being the history of Israel.

Will do, then! It's LONG, quite a few parts, but worth watching.

Very true about how people don't realize. The real irony is that, in what is called the "information age", people still get a ton of false information. The RCC used to hide the truth, and now it's buried under a ton of lies and misdirection.

Think you are right on that 8'th beast. It's clear that Islam will play a major role in the End Times. Have you ever looked at their "messiah" figure? There are striking parallels between that figure and the Biblical Antichrist. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Originally posted by ToneDeaf

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
The only reason there are similarities between Judeo-Christian beliefs and Islam is that Islam took material from those.

Similarities are many # 1 Jesus peace be upon him
#2 Abraham #3 Moses #4 History #5 Planet Earth . . . .
who took 'what' is irrelevant, learn to share.
And respect others in their choice.

_________________________

edit on 11/1/13 by ToneDeaf because: (no reason given)

As I stated, they took material from other books, so there are similarities. Pointing out some of them only supports my claim. The sad thing is that they missed the important parts.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Thankfully, we have respectable universities that do respectable research which disagrees with just about everything you folks said. However, I must admit I find delusional fundamentalists fun to listen to.

I cannot think of anything more polytheistic in origin than a virgin giving birth to a divine being that dies and is resurrected. So when you blame Islam for "stealing" to me it is the pot calling the kettle.

By the way, if I'm alive when Yahweh marries Jerusalem, I am going to file a charge against him for bigamy (already married to Asherah) and for adultery (Mary).

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
ever looked at their "messiah" figure? There are striking parallels between that figure and the Biblical Antichrist.

You are now claiming Jesus (pbuh) is the anti-christ ?
. . . that would make you a satanic follower

____________________________

reply to post by ToneDeaf


No, I am stating that the one the call the "mahdi" is strikingly similar to the Biblical Antichrist. Confused much? They don't consider Jesus to be that figure.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


Actually the Mahdi will fight the anti-christ until the second coming. What credible books have you actually read on the figure? Where they shia, sunni, or your regular Jerry Falwell pseudo-scholarship? Your anti-Catholic rants are quite vindictive and stretch Revealation to psychadelic new heights. The Thirty-Years War ended a long, long time ago. Thankfully, in the US the country was founded by Deists who abhored superstition and religious fanatics. Secular democracy has made such madness something to be shunned even though in th US the Bible thumpers still make a lot of noise. Fear-based, hate-mongering has no place in a modern secular society.

I suggest you read some books on Catholicism, Semitic Philology, Comparative Near-Eastern Belief, and Islam.

Thankfully, the religous right lost the last election, even with a bad economy. Most Americans have moved beyond the madness and are social progressives who believe the planet is older than 6,000 years and that the world is round.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
They don't consider Jesus to be that figure.

Quran 3:45 PICKTHAL: (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah).
Jesus (pbuh) will return to aid mahdi, or the guided one, against satan (dajjal)

Why are you are so interested in judgement day
considering you do not believe
______________________