The Bright and Morning Star "Mary" Queen of Heaven and husband Allah

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

It may also be interesting to note that the very sin of Lucifer in this passage as defined by the phrase uttered in his heart; “I will ascend… I will be like the Most High”. The word for ascend in Hebrew is Alah, the name used of course by Muslims for God. In the same way that Allah has laid claim to the title of Almighty God of the universe, despite the fact that he is simply an Arabian moon god, so also Lucifer’s desire was and is to be exalted as an equal to God Almighty. And so as if the divine hint found in the word Heylal, meaning both Lucifer and Crescent Moon is not enough, so also in the very same passage—the use of the word Alah for Lucifer’s sin—may indeed be another prophetic hint unveiling the identity of that ancient and very evil being hiding behind the title of Allah.

Heylel is Allah

Come now, Lonewolf, why don't you stick to one topic and respond to those points, rather than ignoring what I say, and posting something completely new every time.

And why are you playing so fast and loose with the hebrew language? "'alah" in "rise" from that passage is עָלָה, or Ayn-Lamed-Het. Illah, which has the same meaning in Arabic as in Hebrew (i.e. god), is Aleph-Lamed-Het, or אֵלָה or اله.
For "Allah", you'd want Aleph-Lamed-Lamed-Het, which is אללה, or الله.

ALL of these, in both hebrew and arabic, use Aleph, or א or ا, except the first one ('alah or rise), which is a completely different and unrelated word, meaning "rise", which uses Ayn or ע or ع. That apostrophe before the a isn't there for decoration, The word is, and sounds completely different. Ayn is a voiced pharyngeal fricative, if that is of any interest to you.

At this point that website is just throwing whatever it can, and seeing what sticks. Why am I explaining hebrew etymologies and pronunciation to someone who is supposed to be as biblically knowledgeable as yourself?

It's futile arguing with fundamentalists, be they religious or secular. Only the Divine can correct errors. All we can do is forgive the errors of others as we forgive ourselves for our own errors...which we are equally unable to correct.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


So a carpenter that lived 2,000 years ago that is based purely on heresy if proof enough for you to believe it? I'm sorry but I need a little more evidence than what's written down in a book that was written 2,000 years ago to believe it's true. You are seriously lacking in critical thinking skills if you take heresy as fact.

The same applies to Muhammad if that is what you believe.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

The month of Ramadan is determined by cycles of the moon. At one particular point in the month the phase depicted above happens and the crescent moon swallows the "star". So the crescent moon has been a part of Islam for as long as the month of Ramadan has been in existence and this is why the minarettes on mosques have a crescent moon ontop of them. Ofcourse this ritual dates back to the pre-islamic days of Hajj when Muhammad and his father would walk around the Kaaba 7 times for remission of sins (just like muslim do today).

Well, that proves it. Muslims have months based on the moon! Who’d have thought?? Of course, it’s a bit more than that - they actually have their key foundation story and significant religious observance tied to the phases of the moon too. Clearly this is moon worship in plain sight.

Lucky there’s nothing in Christian foundation stories or key observances that have anything to do with phases of the moon (or the sun)...

Well, except of course a couple of minor details like the timing and commemoration of Christ’s last supper, crucifixion and resurrection, which might be a wee bit problematic. Let’s see - Christ, Paschal Lamb, died to save us and then rose again - apparently occurred and is still remembered through prayer and ritual, all in the week of the first full moon after the vernal equinox.

Damn, you almost had me convinced.

You know, I am not religious and I am not trying to defend any position except perhaps a bit of intellectual integrity which your sources, at least, seem to lack. Human beings tell stories and use symbols to explain the world and give it and ourselves meaning. Or maybe there really is a creator God that has revealed itself and tried to explain this meaning in ways our relatively puny brains can understand. I won't dismiss the idea out of hand.

But, ideas of the sun, moon and stars as divine predate many of the world’s current religions and it it is not sooo strange that symbols of the ‘heavenly’ bodies that are so important to agricultural societies would evolve and become embedded as allegories of the divine, even after metaphysical thought became more sophisticated - or after Divine Revelation, if you prefer (they are not mutually exclusive). It is not so inconceivable that agricultural peoples who relied so much on the seasons would find it difficult to just wipe the importance of such symbols and stories from their minds and art.

Unfortunately, human beings don’t just try and express or understand things through stories, we also have a nasty habit of using those stories and symbols to divide and control others - and not just religious stories. All I have to do is pick up a newspaper - or turn on the TV news. Stories.

So yeah, no doubt there are those that use these stories, beliefs and symbols to control and manipulate people. You have that right. The thing is, it is kind of hard to look for truths or falsehoods if you already think you know that your story is the absolute and only truth and only use sources that “know” the same thing. Zealotry, of any flavour, is not the best lens for objective enquiry.

This morning the crescent moon and venus were together in the pre-dawn sky. It was a beautiful and quite awesome sight, even though to my 21st century eyes there is no symbolism, no divinity - just shiny, reflective chunks of rock. Perhaps we should all look up a bit more, as our ancestors obviously did, and remember that we still all have to share THIS shiny, reflective, chunk of rock, despite the truth, or otherwise, of our different stories.

Anyway, I’m outta here. Real things to worry about in real life.

Good luck with your search.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


VERY INTERESTING POINTS WORTH PONDERING.

Walid Shoebat and Joel Richardson's

GOD'S WAR ON TERROR has a section along similar lines.

Thx thx.

reply to post by queenofangels_17


I didn't say hadith 9:5 i said hadith 9:4.

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by EricD

 

No. I'm worse than that. I'm one of those moon-worshipping Muslims.

No you're a heylel worshipper. Look he's even in your avatar. Crescent moon=Heylel/Hilal. Still not getting it huh? What possessed you to take an avatar with a crescent moon in it hm? You should wonder, there's your mark of the beast.

ah, apropos sun godess, i alway think that the sun was masculine and the moon = feminin. seems like i was wrong?

the catholic church or monarch also always had this artefact, shaped a medium sized ball with a cross upon it. if you think about it, it is very similar to the symbol of female: O+

i never know what it is called, but it was definitely odd.

sometimes i asked what it was, but they answered, it represents the eden apple fruit! it doesnt look like one!

ah but now i know it, it was indeed a female symbolism of mother marry/samiramis. thx OP, nice thread

please also visit my EXODUS thread aswell, it explain another aspect of this babylonian mysteries. you wont regret my other threads too, cheers illuminated people

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

 

So a carpenter that lived 2,000 years ago that is based purely on heresy if proof enough for you to believe it? I'm sorry but I need a little more evidence than what's written down in a book that was written 2,000 years ago to believe it's true. You are seriously lacking in critical thinking skills if you take heresy as fact.

A little healthy skepticism can be a good thing BUT...

Critical thinking skills will NEVER help you if you are unable to discern the difference between facts and lies.

Remember: The skeptic is always convincible.

Jesus came, although the doors were locked, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and see my hands, and bring your hand and put it into my side, and do not be unbelieving, but believe.” Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I never saw him mention that he was religious, then again I haven't read all 10 pages, so I apologize if I missed that point.

He is not going to mention that he is religious, because he is under the impression that
religion = evil. For people like him, "religion" is a dirty word.

What he does is no different from what hindus, muslims, sikhs etc do.
i.e - follow a certain scripture, adhere to belief in God, believe in souls and its reward or punishment in the afterlife and so on. Does that sound like religion to you?

So what makes him non-religious?

Either way, it still goes to reason that many major religions (if not all) use the crescent moon symbolically, which is not a coincidence in my opinion. I think it is you that believes it is a mere coincidence, hence the fact that you are debating the OP in the first place.

I simply believe its no big surprise that 2 groups on the same planet symbolized that bright white thing in the night sky.... not very different from people symbolizing the sun and the stars.
Do YOU think its too far fetched that more than one group could have symbolized the moon?

Also the OP seems to be blissfully unaware that the moon symbolism appears in the bible... that too in a very crucial prophetic verse.

Any guesses as to where it appears?

I predict the christian response would be that moon symbolism is a good thing only if used in their scriptures. The moon symbolism in other religions, however....

Double standard.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Well then, it shouldn't be too hard for you to realize that all religion is based on astrology. Ancient people didn't worship an invisible man in the sky, they worshiped what they saw, and what they saw was everything natural. They then started trying to understand what they saw, so they started putting stories to why the sun set and rose and what the stars were and how they got there. It turned from worshiping the sun and moon to worshiping made up 'messiahs'. If you look hard enough and question what you've been told your whole life you will start to see the parallels between these fairy tales and the natural universe and astrology. But I doubt you will ever see it because the way your brain has been conditioned throughout your life. I have made these connections, and when I did it was the greatest epiphany I have ever had. Our universe is more beautiful and wonderful than any religious god could ever be. In fact, the universe is the god these holy books are referring to, and like I said before, if you look hard enough you will realize this.

reply to post by Murgatroid


You have it backwards actually. Critical thinking is the KEY to telling truth from lies. If you truly believe that the qu'ran or bible are the true words of god, then you have already lost the battle of thinking critically. If you truly were a critical thinker you would see the lie that religion truly is.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

What he does is no different from what hindus, muslims, sikhs etc do. So what makes him non-religious?

The BLOOD of Jesus, HIS blood ALONE can save you.

Buddha, Krishna, and Mohammed are in their graves. Jesus Christ’s grave ALONE is empty.

Religion PRETENDS to be the way and the truth but Jesus Christ said, ‘I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man can come unto the Father but by Me.’

"He is not going to mention that he is religious, because he is under the impression that religion = evil."

Religion IS evil because it LIES and HIDES the truth...

THIS is why you don't believe that Satan is behind ALL false religion

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Uh. No. It was designed for me. And again you are still sticking to your nonsense that has been debunked by me and Babyloi numerous times. This has now become pointless. A debate is fine when people are considering others positions but when a position is completely debunked and the person still sticks to it it becomes clear they don't care about facts and truth. When that becomes clear the debate no longer has a point.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


Like I said, it's futile arguing with fundamentalists, be they religious or secular. Only the Divine can correct errors. All we can do is forgive the errors of others as we forgive ourselves for our own errors...which we are equally unable to correct. When are people going to start listening to me?!

So the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

Some of the most sensible recent posting on this thread is being done by a Muslim.

I really think the OP and fan club stepped over the line big time condemning Catholics and Muslims.

Many of the opinions expressed in this thread give Christianity a bad name IMHO.

Thanks for calling my faith The Whore of Babylon. Didn't know she was into helping the needy. Did you ever hear of Catholic Relief Services? You have no idea. News from two days ago:

Flooded India: Women, children, cattle jostle for space in relief camps

www.uscatholic.org...

Babita Alick, team leader for disaster management of Caritas India, the social action wing of the Indian church, told Catholic News Service that three medical teams led by doctors have been reaching out to villagers sheltered in relief camps run by the government in schools and other centers.

Where there is a disaster CRS is there.

Cassie Dummett, head of programming of Catholic Relief Services in India, told CNS that the agency had distributed safe drinking water and hygiene kits to nearly 6,000 families.

If God is love why do you spend so much energy hating?

Kicking the dust off of my sandals.

reply to post by BlueMule


Who do you think is one the people that have been starring your posts? Thank you for gracing this thread with your insight and sanity.

reply to post by BlueMule

Originally posted by BlueMule
Like I said, it's futile arguing with fundamentalists, be they religious or secular.

"Win an argument, lose a soul"

One the best illustrations of this Dominican maxim is a true story written by a priest who was sitting in a restaurant with two other priests wearing roman collars, when a waiter asks a sincere question about what Jesus would say about living with his girlfriend:

Win An Argument, Lose a Soul

The latter, winning a victory over another, not for truth or God or love, is a hell in miniature.

But the celebrity priest sat back in his chair, shot my friend and me a self righteous glance, and replied to the waiter, “Listen buddy. Maybe you have a problem with church teaching and you can’t sleep at night, but I don’t. I certainly don’t have any problem sleeping at night.” –and he said something else but by this point I was stunned. He was arrogant before, but I didn’t expect him to do this. The waiter’s face went red and he looked so embarrassed. I was in shock myself because I couldn’t believe what I heard. The waiter was still polite and excused himself, and I didn’t see him again, even though I looked after dinner.

I absolutely DO believe there is right and wrong, and the true mission of a man of God…or anyone for that matter…is to know that truth and to share it with others so that they can see for themselves. But to destroy someone so that your ego can feel the thrill of victory, that arrogance of the King of the Hill…I have actually SEEN the damage, the destruction of a soul right as it happens. I won’t soon forget that waiter’s face, seeing his spirit crushed in front of my eyes. I could see he turned inward, and I had the clear sense he saw that priest’s words as confirmation that he was ‘bad’ and had no business approaching God in his life. Instead of a moment to be brought a little closer to God in his life, he was sent away and made to feel ashamed of himself.

This “celebrity” priest, so ‘brilliant’ and ‘holy’ to many…won his argument, at least in his own mind, but he lost a soul. And he didn’t let the soul drop from his hands, which would’ve been bad enough. That would have been irresponsible. No, this was intended, active cruelty behind a collar, and that soul might have been lost forever because of him.

Win An Argument, Lose a Soul

reply to post by Murgatroid


So basically you're using the straw man of losing ones soul as an argument now?

You saying that implies that we should fear losing our souls, which means that you yourself fear losing your soul. That is an excellent example of how religions work. They use your fear of hell to make you conform to their lies. Why do you think some christians baptize their children as soon as they are born? Because they fear their childrens' souls from being lost, and that is the start of the indoctrination process. They raise their children telling them that they don't want to go to hell, that it's a scary place, and that if they go there, they will burn and suffer for eternity. That fear of hell alters their mind to actually believe hell exists.

You will probably deny that you are afraid of hell, saying that you have no need to fear because you have been 'saved', but deep down in your subconscious you ARE afraid of hell, and that fear of hell drives you to defend your belief no matter what, no matter what kind of evidence is presented to you that supports the contrary, hence using this argument, your final straw(man).

ETA: Your article doesn't make any sense, it says that winning an argument AGAINST god is when you lose your soul, yet its example is of a man of god winning the argument, which is where the contradiction lies, because a man of god would never argue against god because he believes in god, so that has absolutely no footing whatsoever.