Our View: Pay for TRICARE Prime

This is a topic I am very interested in. We have a massive healthcare debate in this country, and even "Obamacare" which is spouted by it's supporters to be massive healthcare reform, is a major sellout of the American people.

I have been in heated debates with other ATS members regarding military personnel, what they pay for healthcare and what they should be entitled to.

For those of us that are against the war, the regular justifications such as "I fight for your freedoms!" just don't cut it. Active military salaries have grown to dwarf their civilian counterparts. All of this is paid for by John Q Taxpayer.

People refute a single payer option because they claim it's "socialism" but we pay 100% of the soldier's insurance premiums. Is this not limited socialism for an apparently upper class? Why is this ok but it's not ok to provide a single payer option for 100% of Americans? Even if military personnel were paying a portion of their income toward their healthcare expense, it would still be essentially paid for by the American People. In a way this policy of soldiers not paying a portion of their healthcare from their income is a sort of double tax on the American people. I understand the need for a reasonably strong military, but it seems that the "defense" budget takes everything it can get, then asks for more... In finance and economics, most situations avoid a double tax. Why is it ok regarding military healthcare?

Active-duty military personnel should pay part of the costs for the health care coverage offered through TRICARE Prime. Currently, the health care is free, as are the Basic Allowance for Housing and Basic Allowance for Subsistence allowances.

Providing tax-free allowances for BAS and BAH are appropriate. However, the upswing in military pay and other compensation in the first decade of this century makes it feasible to have active-duty soldiers pay a percentage of health care insurance costs. According to the findings of the 11th Quadrennial Review of Military Compensation report, military pay exceeds most of workers in the private sector. The average compensation for officers was $94,735 in 2009. That exceeded 83 percent of civilians with bachelors and masters degrees. The Regular Military Compensation (RMC) average was $50,747, almost $22,000 more than the average compensation for private-sector civilian workers.

The QRMC’s compensation numbers do not include the free health care insurance benefits. However, the report says that it translates into an additional $3,000 to $7,000 a year for enlisted personnel, and an extra $2,800 to $4,000 for officers. Meanwhile, health insurance costs have skyrocketed for the average private-sector civilian worker.

Why are Americans paying for military salaries AND healthcare? We're also paying for all the inflated expenses of this so called "war on terror."

What I'd like, is for some active military to respond with their thoughts. Do you think you should contribute to your healthcare costs? Why or why not? Is it fair for military salaries to exceed civilian salaries in the first place? Is this really the kind of country we want? One that is heavily militarized, where the soldier is somehow treated with more respect and privilege than the working man?

Source

When you sign a blank check payable buy your life, then you might have a real argument. Civilians do not face the same types or probabilities of death and injury that active duty military face. Want their health care? Join up. Until then, piss off.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
When you sign a blank check payable buy your life, then you might have a real argument. Civilians do not face the same types or probabilities of death and injury that active duty military face. Want their health care? Join up. Until then, piss off.

Lol, typical thoughtless response.

WE RISK OUR LIVES FOR YOU SO PAY FOR IT!!!

Anyone with an original thought or a well thought out argument care to contribute? I didn't ask you to play soldier boy, you made that choice for yourself. I dispute that you are protecting my freedoms - rather, I believe you are contributing to my oppression.

If you have a good counter argument let's hear it, if it's just canned rhetoric you got from the water cooler, keep it to yourself.


It's funny to hear you guys whine about people and their "entitlements" and all the while you receive more entitlements than anyone. Hypocrisy is a funny creature.

And considering your avatar, which implies a corporate controlled USA.. What exactly is your angle? You seem to be aware that this country is driven and controlled by special interests yet you get militant when the policies this corporate state implements are called to question..

I am confused.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


I'm a veteran who seperated from the service 15 months ago, and I thought I'd respond to your post.

TRICARE is indeed a wonderful benefit, and quite expensive to the taxpayer at the same time. The expense is partially due to the fact that military families actually make use of the system... which they should, it is available and it works.

Military salaries took a massive hike during my 11 years in the Navy. I went from making just over $1000 a month as an E3 to approximately $62000 a year (with housing/dependent pay bonuses) as an E-6 with over 10 years of service. As a civilian, my gross pay now is far more than that... however, my healthcare costs me over $600 a month! Quite a shock to me, that was.

I can see where you are coming from in questioning the validity of having taxpayer dollars pay for what seem like trememdous benefits for military personnel. Seeing as I did serve and knowing the stresses and hazards of the lifestyle I believe that military personnel do deserve those benefits... ardous hours, being seperated from you home and loved ones for months, even years at a time, doing jobs that would make most people quit or threaten to leave, etc. Please understand that not all military men and woman are the stereotypical 'red state warmongers' that they are made out to be, and I'm pretty certain that you know that. Without the excellent benefits package you would see a much higher rate of attritrion out of the military service, which would increase the costs of fielding the current sized miltary that we do when you take into effect things such as new recruit training, outfitting, deployments and such.

I advocate a smaller and smarter military, but to accomplish that you need a dedicated, all-volunteer force (in my opinion), and the only way to sustain and maintain such an organization is to handsomely reward those willing to serve.

reply to post by Dreine


Thank you for your response. I come from a military family, and yes I am aware that not all military are so gung ho.

I agree with you that the benefits should be exceptional for people in high risk jobs. I worked as an equipment operator in an oil refinery for quite a few years. There were occasions where I was on 2 feet of scaffolding 200 feet in the air, in horrible snow storms. I have spent 16 hour days in toxic environments in a full face respirator and hazmat suit. I have seen guys pass out and be carried away simply due to working in all that gear in a 120f environment. It's a different kind of danger, but it was too very dangerous. So I agree, dangerous jobs should come with exceptional insurance coverage.

I had great benefits there, but I paid a portion of them out of my own salary.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I still believe that military personnel should make a contribution toward their health insurance out of their salaries.

When you factor in all of the benefits active military receive, home credits, spouse/child credits, tax free income when in a combat zone, college money, etc.. The salaries that are reported are much lower than what the individual is actually receiving when all is said and done.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


Let me inform you of a couple of things. As a military spouse of a soldier who has served this country for 16 years, you might want to listen for a change and talk with a person who has lived this life day in and out for the last 16 years instead of pulling your "facts" from the internet.

1. Tricare Prime is going bankrupt and has been for years and everytime we go in to see a doctor the FIRST question we get asked is if we have any other insurance so that can be billed before Tricare.

2. We still have co-pays if and WHEN (because it's almost impossible to see our "military" doctor) we have to be seen off post. Then when we have perscriptions to fill, we still have to pay a co-pay if we can't get our prescriptions from our "military" pharmacy.

3. My husbands and the rest of the military's paychecks have NOT skyrocketed in comparison to their civilian counterparts. My husband still makes less than $50,000 a year and that's with housing allowance. If he had the SAME job in the civilian world, he would be making over twice what he makes now. Not only that, our soldiers don't work 9-5 jobs. They are on call 24 hours a day. My hubby leaves for work at 4:30am and doesn't step foot in the door until at LEAST 6pm and that's on an easy day. There are quite a few days he works 18-20 hours and MIGHT get 2 hours sleep and that's when he is NOT deployed. Deployments he works even LONGER hours and sleeps less. So on an "hourly" basis comparitively speaking, our soldiers work for freakin pennies to live on and support their families, so that you can talk smack about what you "THINK" they make and or get as far as benefits. Tell ya what, pull up your big girl/boy panties, volunteer some of your time to serve your country, grab your combat boots, kiss your family goodbye and lets see if you feel the same way in a couple of years.

4. Oh yea and don't even get me started on retirement benefits. Our military is going broke and every week we read about cutbacks and some of our battalions and companies can't even afford toilet paper, printer paper, or ink pens. My husband has 3 and a half years left before retirement and who knows what his retirement check will look like at that point. Oh and because of the cutbacks, our soldiers are now being sent off on deployments around the world WITHOUT the equipment they need to keep them safe while they are keeping you safe in your bed at night and throughout your day.

But the minute you lose your electricity, internet, and no longer feel safe and cozy because terrorists are knocking on our doors, you'll be screaming, "WHERE'S OUR SOLDIERS???" You just better pray they don't grow cold and ungrateful hearts like you have and yell back, "YOU JUST AREN'T WORTH IT!!!" Military life may look nice and cozy from the outside, but walk a day in our shoes and this bloated bubble you have in your nieve little noggin will soon pop.

Oh, the soldiers and their spouses PAY taxes also, so we help pay for our own healthcare. We also contribute to welfare, social security, and a CRAP load of bogus taxes that fill filthy politicians pockets!

I and my husband would GLADLY trade in the military life for a civilian one any day. We HATE deployments because it means time away from each other and our kids growing up without their father. And his life is more important to us than any of the benefits or the money. I'd rather live with him in a cardboard box than have to tell him goodbye for a year at a time and live each day while he is gone knowing that at any moment I could be a widow and have to live the rest of my life without him. His life to me, is more important than yours, so I could care less about keeping YOU safe and comfortable, so you better say a thankful prayer that his heart is bigger than mine.

reply to post by watchdog


My entire family is or was in some branch of the military. What do you think drew my attention to this issue in the first place? Before you go off on a rant, please read the details and respond accordingly. Now, to address your "points."

1. Tricare Prime is going bankrupt and has been for years and everytime we go in to see a doctor the FIRST question we get asked is if we have any other insurance so that can be billed before Tricare.

I can find no evidence of this whatsoever. My brother is still active and receives TriCare - he gets great coverage. I have private insurance through my employer, that I pay for myself.. And I STILL GET ASKED IF I HAVE SECONDARY INSURANCE TO HELP COVER COSTS. Jeez.

2. We still have co-pays if and WHEN (because it's almost impossible to see our "military" doctor) we have to be seen off post. Then when we have perscriptions to fill, we still have to pay a co-pay if we can't get our prescriptions from our "military" pharmacy.

You don't believe you should have a co-pay? What makes you better than every other American? This is the ENTITLEMENT I was talking about. Curiously, what is your opinion on students protesting predatory loans and ballooning tuition costs?

3. My husbands and the rest of the military's paychecks have NOT skyrocketed in comparison to their civilian counterparts. My husband still makes less than $50,000 a year and that's with housing allowance. If he had the SAME job in the civilian world, he would be making over twice what he makes now. Not only that, our soldiers don't work 9-5 jobs. They are on call 24 hours a day. My hubby leaves for work at 4:30am and doesn't step foot in the door until at LEAST 6pm and that's on an easy day. There are quite a few days he works 18-20 hours and MIGHT get 2 hours sleep and that's when he is NOT deployed. Deployments he works even LONGER hours and sleeps less. So on an "hourly" basis comparitively speaking, our soldiers work for freakin pennies to live on and support their families, so that you can talk smack about what you "THINK" they make and or get as far as benefits. Tell ya what, pull up your big girl/boy panties, volunteer some of your time to serve your country, grab your combat boots, kiss your family goodbye and lets see if you feel the same way in a couple of years.

That sucks. I make a lot more than your husband and have better health coverage, according to you. I never joined the military and never will after seeing what it did to MY ENTIRE FAMILY. Additionally, I have no interest in serving your master, as I do not share your fears and I do not believe in corporate funded murder. Maybe you could get a job to help out?

4. Oh yea and don't even get me started on retirement benefits. Our military is going broke and every week we read about cutbacks and some of our battalions and companies can't even afford toilet paper, printer paper, or ink pens. My husband has 3 and a half years left before retirement and who knows what his retirement check will look like at that point. Oh and because of the cutbacks, our soldiers are now being sent off on deployments around the world WITHOUT the equipment they need to keep them safe while they are keeping you safe in your bed at night and throughout your day.

Our military is the best equipped, funded, trained, and the LARGEST in the world. Everything you said is complete bullcrap that stems from your misguided sense of entitlement. Your husband is not a hero, despite what they try to tell you all day to make you continue to do what they want you to. Maybe he should not resign his contract and get a civilian job, and pay for his own healthcare. Do you realize over

But the minute you lose your electricity, internet, and no longer feel safe and cozy because terrorists are knocking on our doors, you'll be screaming, "WHERE'S OUR SOLDIERS???" You just better pray they don't grow cold and ungrateful hearts like you have and yell back, "YOU JUST AREN'T WORTH IT!!!" Military life may look nice and cozy from the outside, but walk a day in our shoes and this bloated bubble you have in your nieve little noggin will soon pop.

Oh, the soldiers and their spouses PAY taxes also, so we help pay for our own healthcare. We also contribute to welfare, social security, and a CRAP load of bogus taxes that fill filthy politicians pockets!

This is pure hilarity. WE'RE THE TERRORISTS. WE ARE DOING THIS EVERY DAY TO INNOCENT PEOPLE. WHY DO YOU FEEL SO MUCH BETTER THAN OTHER HUMANS?

The taxes you pay are my tax dollar, so no, you don't contribute in any way to your own healthcare. I could break out the crayons and make a visual representation for you, but what you are claiming is a mathematical impossibility.

What should I be greatful for?

...

The actions of the military aren't increasing security, whatsoever. They are doing the opposite. When the terrorists come (LOL!!!) I will be CURSING our military for killing millions of innocents in the last 10 years alone, and causing the entire world to hate us.


I'm curious, what is your husbands branch, rank, and job? I would like to substantiate your claim that he makes much less than his civilian counterpart.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


1. I have talked to my numerous healthcare providers as well as my childrens and all of them have said it's going broke. I ask the receptionist in the doctors offices as to why they ask for the secondary insurance and they have said, "We have to ask now so we can bill the secondary first because Tricare is going broke." There ya go! I talk to real professionals and people as opposed to pulling stuff from press releases and the internet. My husband gets great medical coverage as well for now, but me and the kids get shanty coverage at best! We have to fight to get tricare to cover "off-post" visits when there are no appts. available on post or the only "available" appts are 4-6 weeks out. Really doesn't do us any good if we are suffering from the flu, stomach virus, or a child (my 15 year old) who suffers from epilepsy and has since he was a couple of weeks old. And if I decide that me or my children can't wait to be seen because tricare won't cover it, we either sit in the ER for 16 hours OR have to pay for EVERYTHING out of pocket.

2. I, nor my husband believe that we are "entitled" to anything. We don't mind paying co-pays and no where did I say that. In your post, you made it sound like we don't have to pay for ANYTHING and get off with absolutely FREE healthcare without having to pay anything into it. So no, we don't think we are better than anyone, but obvisouly you think you are if you are upset about having to pay for YOUR health insurance because you think someone else doesn't have to pay into it as much as you do.

3. I am a student working part time on my BA in Geology with a focus in mineralogy. I think college institutions are raping students left and right when it comes to rising tuition costs. My husband is also a part time college student and we have 1 son who will start college in 2 years and another who will start in 4 years. Student loans are ridiculous. If you can't afford college, then 1. work and pay as you go, 2. do well enough to get scholarships and grants. I have numerous scholarships, just got another one this past May and my next 2 years are paid for in full. Oh and I am also a part of different student organizations and clubs and the University of Texas and Baylor University offer scholarships for students who are members of certain student organizations. College tuition rates suck, but there is always money to help students out. People can protest all they want. Doesn't bother me any. I am going to class to get an education, no matter how long it takes me to pay for it, not stand around complaining that I am not "entitled" enough to get more money or it's my "right" to get an education and it should be less expensive. I don't mind working to pay for my education. Education is NOT a "right", it's a priviledge!

4. I HATE the military, but this is what my husband chose as a career. My husband HATES the military as well. It's not the same military it was when he joined almost 17 years ago and he can't wait to retire and start a new career. We don't serve a master other than God. Oh and my husband has never shot and killed anyone, most soldiers haven't, so please explain to me when my husband became a murderer? We don't condone murder either you douche, to include abortion...oh wait sorry, that's probably ok with you since it's not "corporately funded" right? And what makes you think I DON'T work? Don't just assume I don't work. I work part-time, go to school part-time all while I am raising 3 kids, volunteer in my community and at my husbands work, and teach a class once a week. Now, open your mouth WIDE and insert both your feet!

5. I never said my husband was/is a hero and I have NEVER once heard a single soldier ever say that they are/were a hero. All soldiers will tell you, "I was just doing my job. It sucked, but I did it." My husband will giggle if you call him a hero and even feels "weird" when people come up to him thanking him for his service and when they get a BIG welcome home at airports coming back in from a deployment. All he cares about is getting home to me and his 3 kids. Most soldiers are the same way. Oh and most of us do not feel "entitled" to anything, so if you grew up surrounded by the military and it is your view that "we" all feel entitled, then that tells us all that you and your military family are the select few military families that think they were/are "entitled' buddy.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


6. We have been stationed here in central Texas for a year standing up a BRAND NEW unit. When we got here, there were less than 15 soldiers here and EVERYTHING had to be done from scratch to include "stocking" the battalion and companies. These soldiers and families bit the bullet and brought in toilet paper, their own copy paper from home, pens, paper, notebooks, printers, printer ink, etc because there wasn't money in the "fiscal" budget and they had to fight for months to get what they needed just to have basic supplies. When my hubby was in 4th ID in 2005, they had to deploy without certain safety equipment because there wasn't money in the budget and it was 2 months before the money was there and only then was the equipment sent downrange, but they had to wait and make do without it for almost 3 months. So until you are here and see what's going on, then put a lid on it, because you know NOTHING. Don't try to tell my husband and other soldiers what's going on with their jobs, and they won't intrude on you and tell you what's going on with yours!

7. ROFLOL!!! I work a civilian job just like you do dork, so I DO pay into my own healthcare. Oh and it's spelled "grateful" not "greatful", but you would know that if you had paid more attention in school and not whining because you don't think stuff is fair.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
Active military salaries have grown to dwarf their civilian counterparts.

Really??? What is the Pay Scale Chart state again? I seem to recall that this statement is false.
Plus you forget that Military Members pay Taxes as well. So, it is not totally funded by the Non-Military.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
People refute a single payer option because they claim it's "socialism" but we pay 100% of the soldier's insurance premiums.

Because the enlistment into the Military was Voluntary. And the power poor is a trade off for Mediocre Health Care for the Military Member. Sounds like you forgot to include that the Family Members of the Military Member have to pay into Tricare, which is a joke all on it's own.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
Is this not limited socialism for an apparently upper class?

No, because I have yet to see where the majority of the military are considered Upper Class.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
Why is this ok but it's not ok to provide a single payer option for 100% of Americans?

Because the Military Member is still working a physical job. While just being a Citizen does not imply you are working for anything.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
Even if military personnel were paying a portion of their income toward their healthcare expense, it would still be essentially paid for by the American People.
[/quote[
There are already programs in place to provide Health Care to those that are in the lower class.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
In a way this policy of soldiers not paying a portion of their healthcare from their income is a sort of double tax on the American people.

No, because they still pay taxes. Just like every other Citizen that has an income.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
I understand the need for a reasonably strong military, but it seems that the "defense" budget takes everything it can get, then asks for more... In finance and economics, most situations avoid a double tax. Why is it ok regarding military healthcare?

More crying over the Defense Budget? Last time I checked, the Military is about the only thing that the Fed Govt seems to be decent at. Everything is poor to terrible.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
Why are Americans paying for military salaries AND healthcare?

Already explained.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
We're also paying for all the inflated expenses of this so called "war on terror."

Take it up with 0bama and Congress.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
What I'd like, is for some active military to respond with their thoughts. Do you think you should contribute to your healthcare costs?

Military Members due, in the form of Income Tax and other taxes.
The Family has to pay Monthly premiums to Tricare for coverage.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
Is it fair for military salaries to exceed civilian salaries in the first place?

They don't.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
Is this really the kind of country we want? One that is heavily militarized, where the soldier is somehow treated with more respect and privilege than the working man?

reply to post by TinkerHaus


Oh you want to compare testicles now. Ok lol, fine. He is in the Army and is an E-7 with 17 years in October. I can't tell you what his job is because he falls under special operations. He doesn't get any special language pay or anything like that. Just the basic E-7 pay. Oh and he has a Top Secret clearance, but in the army they don't pay you for that, but in the civilian world he would be more apt to be given the job over someone who doesn't (depending on the job) and he could work at the Pentagon, any of the numerous US Embassy's around the world (and he did back in 2010-2011, so he has experience), or any federal, state, or local agencies (currently works with them everyday because of his job).

This is a LINK to our 2012 pay scale. Scroll down. E-7 with over 16 years gets $4089 a month. That's my husbands pay. Now take out all the taxes. That's roughly $49000 a year, then take out taxes for the year.

Originally posted by watchdog
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

Oh you want to compare testicles now. Ok lol, fine. He is in the Army and is an E-7 with 17 years in October. I can't tell you what his job is because he falls under special operations. He doesn't get any special language pay or anything like that. Just the basic E-7 pay. Oh and he has a Top Secret clearance, but in the army they don't pay you for that, but in the civilian world he would be more apt to be given the job over someone who doesn't (depending on the job) and he could work at the Pentagon, any of the numerous US Embassy's around the world (and he did back in 2010-2011, so he has experience), or any federal, state, or local agencies (currently works with them everyday because of his job).

This is a LINK to our 2012 pay scale. Scroll down. E-7 with over 16 years gets $4089 a month. That's my husbands pay. Now take out all the taxes. That's roughly $49000 a year, then take out taxes for the year.

I had actually already guessed he was a SFC.

I'm not trying to compare testicles, just giving back what I get. I was pretty respectful in my OP and you and some others wanted to blast me without even considering or answering my sincere questions.

I was asking for your opinion on that stance and you (in not so many words) called me a stupid coward. I assure you you are incorrect.

You claim he could make more in the civilian world, but based on his length of service he has signed at least THREE separate contracts. You made your own bed...

And to the other guy in fatigues, macman, I didn't mean upper class as in what ATS refers to as a ruling class, or even an elite class economically. I was referring to the obligatory title of "hero" for filling a uniform.

Don't get me wrong, many enlisted men and women ARE heroes.. but it's because of who they are, not what they wear.

Look at it from a different perspective - Everyone in the USA is about to be FORCED to pay for healthcare, or else.. And we're still FORCED to pay for other people's healthcare too. I understand that most people join the army because they feel a sense of honor and pride to serve their country, and I truly do respect that. My gripe is not with the soldiers but with the idea that I have to agree with or support a person who made a choice. That is the opposite of American. My gripe is with our foreign policy, and our system of debt and default.

Why are so many Americans so great at blocking out or justifying situations that benefit them, while simultaneously criticizing another group (immigrants, the poor, protesters, THE GOVERNMENT and their Cadillac lifelong health plans..)

I realize the individual situations are different, but the basic principle is the same. Why does one group receive special treatment while others don't?

Are soldiers really more deserving than other Americans? Please answer with your thoughts.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


No, what you wanted was validation for your absurd notion that ALL people have the "right" to healthcare and you decided to pick on our military members to include their families to try to make your point. Our military and their families pay taxes just like you and every other civilian out there. Believe me, we are not gettng special priviledges or entitlements nor do we receive "special treatment".

And yes, my husband reenlisted 3 times, because this is the career he chose. He decided to stick with it and see it out instead of jumping from job to job or quitting and not working at all. He had a family and this is the career he chose to support his family instead of mooching off of the American people and living on welfare to feed his family. So your condemnation of my husband (all of our soldiers and their families), his job, and how he supports his family is repulsive and deserves a swift kick in the butt.

Are soldiers more deserving than other Americans? Not if those people are actually Americans and not illegals and are working, but if those Americans sit around on their butts all day mooching off of the working man because they are making excuses as to why they can't or don't want to work, then you're DAMN right. The WORKING or at least trying to work or get an education so they can work American citizen is better than those who choose to mooch. "Give a man a fish and you have fed him for the day. Teach that man to fish and you have fed him for a lifetime." Problem is, some people in our country don't think they should have to fish and someone should do the fishing for them. I say if he gets hungry enough, he will freakin learn how to fish or go hungry.

Listen, I completely understand people fall on hard times or get dealt a nasty hand from birth......been there, done that. I have NO problem with helping people who have fallen on hard times and need some help. I am not cold and heartless. I do however, have a problem with people who think they are better than everyone else and don't think they should have to work or contribute anything to society and expect and think it is their right that we should feed and take care of them. That's plain and simple laziness. If I can work, so can they. And I will even go further. My mom is one of those people who says she is "disabled" and gets a disability check every month, but she has no issue with getting out in her garden on her hands and knees pulling weeds, trimming shrubs, watering plants, and planting flowers for 8 hours a day. She is frauding our government and I have told her so. If she can do all that, then she can get out and get a job and help my stepdad support her gardening habit and pay for the food she eats, clothes she buys, and pay the bills every month. PERIOD!!