Why do 'debunkers' devote so much time to defending the Official 9/11 story??

Originally posted by thegameisup
Why do 'debunkers' devote so much time to defending the Official 9/11 story ??

I started off as a truther... (a very brief time) My questions brought me here. I found the answers I needed.

Why do I debunk 9/11 Conspiracies?

Because I don't want to see charlatans like Richard Gage attempt to rewrite history.

Funny thing is that I always wonder the same about truthers. It seems the only thing they do is argue on websites. About the most useless thing there is to do. Don't truthers have more important things to do like doing investigations, publishing papers on why the collapses are impossible, and starting court cases to get the guilty punished?

My motive is primarily entertainment. I don't really believe I am getting through to anyone but it is somewhat interesting to read all the fallacies and then see someone get angry when those fallacies are pointed out. I think it also is educative, you can learn a lot about how the human psyche works.

It annoys me when people create nonsense to make themselves feel superior, or to make money. I enjoy refuting the kind of weak thinking that allows stuff like 9/11 conspiracies to flourish.

Incidentally I don't think there's such a thing as an "OS" really. It's just a shorthand Truthers use that is sometimes useful but generally is employed to make the notion of an "inside job" seem like a fait accompli.

There was a cover up, and some parts of the MSM are alive to this. It's just one of those boring old cover ups about information which brave CTers never seem that interested in. I'd echo the above posters' notions about CTs and 9/11 in particular being a good excuse to do nothing, feel superior, and sit on the internet, or sell stuff.

I've done a bit of "debunking" in this forum. Let's see:

What are 'debunker's' motives for being on 9/11 forums?
Personally, I was profoundly affected by the events of 9/11. I watched the event unfold on live television. Unlike anything else I had ever witnessed, I was shocked, horrified, frightened, and angered by what I saw. I wanted answers. And I wanted justice. I still do. I'm curious by nature, so where I find discussions of interest, I participate. People have tried make something out of the fact that I have only posted on ATS in THIS forum. Why? I was personally affected by 9/11. I can't say that about aliens, area 51, bigfoot, or secret societies.

'Debunkers' what are you motives for devoting so much time to arguing with 'truthers'?
For one thing, I get pissed-off when I see what I believe to be misinfo, disinfo, ignorance, rumor, innuendo, and propaganda, being peddled as "truth" on the internet or anywhere else. Those things are harmful and dangerous. So I speak up. It's a natural response. What's the mystery?

Additionally, I like the challenge of a puzzle or mystery. I like to find answers. When I see questions proposed with answers I don't buy, I like the challenge of uncovering the truth. Or at least exposing the fallacy of a bogus answer. It's fun.


Some of you have spent many hours on 9/11 forums each day for years, constantly guarding the official reports, why would anyone bother to do that, if you believe the OS is correct?
Personally, I have never "guarded the official reports". Some of you are very prone to black and white thinking. The assumption is that if I don't buy your conspiracy theory, I must therefore believe and support everything the government has reported. WTF? Just because I don't believe you doesn't mean I believe "them".

If the OS is as sound and correct as you always claim, then why the need to keep telling people?
It's not about the OS being sound and correct. I'm a skeptic. When any conspiracy theory becomes LESS absurd to me than the Government's absurdities, then I might refocus my attention. So far though, it hasn't happened.

Why are you on a 9/11 'conspiracy theory' websites if you believe the OS?
The propagation of misinfo is always harmful. It's in my nature to expose what I believe to be lies.

Why would you care to 'debunk' anything if the OS stands up for itself?
Why do you care to debate "OSers" if your smoking guns are so smokin?

Why would you care what a 9/11 'conspiracy theorist 'or 'truther' says if the OS is correct?
Why do you care what a debunker says if you know it's wrong? I think we all care when we hear being propagated what we believe to be lies. Again--what's the mystery here?

If the OS was so water tight then surely you would not be worried about what 9/11 'conspiracy theorists' think?
Nohing's water tight. But bull# always stinks.

Why do you spend so much time on 9/11 forums if there is nothing for you to gain?
And you?

Partially entertainment.
Partially to counter ignorance that could lead to a life filled with crazy beliefs. My family had many.
Partially to help prevent mentally unstable people from doing something stupid.

If you accept any theory without criticism you just get a host of different theories. You want to know what really happened and not replace a fantastic tale with another do you?

Of course you have to look hard into what somebody says, to see if it does hold any water.

Lordy! I, for one, sure am glad I have this team of altruistic guardians of the truth to tell me what to believe. I'll keep it in mind that it's for my own benefit, the next time I'm called a "stupid, ignorant truther".

Originally posted by Six Sigma

Originally posted by thegameisup
Why do 'debunkers' devote so much time to defending the Official 9/11 story ??

I started off as a truther... (a very brief time) My questions brought me here. I found the answers I needed.

Why do I debunk 9/11 Conspiracies?

Because I don't want to see charlatans like Richard Gage attempt to rewrite history.

edit on 10-7-2012 by Six Sigma because: (no reason given)

This is somewhat parallel with me. I started off as the basic definition of a truther. I started to encounter conspiracy theorists on Youtube, and for the most part the arguments seemed to be nonsensical, but some of it made sense. I hadn't done any research into 9/11.

The real tipping point was when I first saw the video of WTC 7 collapsing. I had never even heard about it beforehand, and it made me an instant believer in the conspiracy. I couldn't think of any way it could be except demolition. Then, I did research on it, since if I was going to be a flag-bearer of the truth movement, I need to have all the facts. The more research I did, the more I realized I was being lied to by the truth movement.

The penthouse collapse was left out of the videos, which proves that the building was collapsing internally. The damage to the South side of the building was conveniently ignored, leaving out the reason for the way the building collapsed. The fire that burned for 7 hours, and the firefighters' testimonies were completely left out of the story or sugar-coated with "it was a minor fire, and they thought it would only collapse a little."

I realized then that the truth movement is just a bunch of people running around flailing with know idea what they're talking about. I'm a man of truth and of science, and I hate seeing people drowning in their own ignorance. So, I try to be the voice of reason and logic in a forum that thinks they are meant to simply accept conspiracies without question. I find it helps to correct mistruths and lies (even if the poster doesn't know it's a lie). Eventually, the general understanding is heightened, and the discussion is that much more evolved.

That's why I post. I believe everyone has the right to know the truth.

reply to post by Varemia


So well put.

Originally posted by Varemia

Originally posted by Six Sigma

Originally posted by thegameisup
Why do 'debunkers' devote so much time to defending the Official 9/11 story ??

I started off as a truther... (a very brief time) My questions brought me here. I found the answers I needed.

Why do I debunk 9/11 Conspiracies?

Because I don't want to see charlatans like Richard Gage attempt to rewrite history.

edit on 10-7-2012 by Six Sigma because: (no reason given)

This is somewhat parallel with me. I started off as the basic definition of a truther. I started to encounter conspiracy theorists on Youtube, and for the most part the arguments seemed to be nonsensical, but some of it made sense. I hadn't done any research into 9/11.

The real tipping point was when I first saw the video of WTC 7 collapsing. I had never even heard about it beforehand, and it made me an instant believer in the conspiracy. I couldn't think of any way it could be except demolition. Then, I did research on it, since if I was going to be a flag-bearer of the truth movement, I need to have all the facts. The more research I did, the more I realized I was being lied to by the truth movement.

The penthouse collapse was left out of the videos, which proves that the building was collapsing internally. The damage to the South side of the building was conveniently ignored, leaving out the reason for the way the building collapsed. The fire that burned for 7 hours, and the firefighters' testimonies were completely left out of the story or sugar-coated with "it was a minor fire, and they thought it would only collapse a little."

I realized then that the truth movement is just a bunch of people running around flailing with know idea what they're talking about. I'm a man of truth and of science, and I hate seeing people drowning in their own ignorance. So, I try to be the voice of reason and logic in a forum that thinks they are meant to simply accept conspiracies without question. I find it helps to correct mistruths and lies (even if the poster doesn't know it's a lie). Eventually, the general understanding is heightened, and the discussion is that much more evolved.

That's why I post. I believe everyone has the right to know the truth.

That's the biggest load of hot, steaming bs I',ve read in a long time. You wouldn't know science if it hit you in the head. Don't you read the stuff you write? The only people running around 'flailing' is you and the rest of the criminals posing as interested parties. Do you really think people are stupid enough to believe what you say?

The reason I post on here is very simple.....I'M GETTING PAID!!!

After the lay off things started getting pretty rough we could barely make ends meet. I saw an add in the local paper for "paid disinfo agents wanted" and,well, here I am. Go figure.

The pay is pretty good and the benefits, while not the best, are not all that bad. I get paid health insurance but they dont match me on my 401-K and that kind of sucks. But hey I can sit around the house all day in my skivies and sip whiskey. So0 I aint complaining.

If anybody is interested we are currently hiring. Drop me a PM and I can get an application to you.

reply to post by Classified Info


Dude you're getting lowballed. I'm posting this from my yacht in Martha's vineyard. I have a Swedish "au pair" (oh what a pair!) mixing my G&T's.

Feels good to be a debunker... Gotta go.

Imagine there is no debunkers. A lurker comes to the forum and sees that everybody agree that OS is a lie. Conformity is a powerful thing. THEY need to make impression that the topic is still unclear, there are should be a lot of arguments. THEY cannot rely on volunteers. only My passion for the topic, for example, did not last that long and I just moved on, I see there is no reason to spend much time on a lost case. The same, I believe, is valid for someone who is eager to fight for the OS. Also, IMHO, the most people who believe in the OS just did not study the case and just blindly believe authorities. I have difficulties to imagine someone intelligent, who spent a lot of time studying 9/11 and still believing the OS...
Here we comes to the need THEY have to have paid people, who stay in the forums and create impression that the point is still unclear. It is simply impossible that THEY do not care what people think of 9/11. It is hard to underestimate the control over information and power of propaganda. Since THEY cannot censure internet forums (well, THEY still can make important internet forum owners to do whatever THEY want), the main tool used is paid disinfo agents. And of course they are here too. Actually, they are not hiding this fact, not all of them are even trying to mimic a normal ATS member.
theHairInTheSoup did a great job on the topic, www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by DonJuan
Imagine there is no debunkers. A lurker comes to the forum and sees that everybody agree that OS is a lie. Conformity is a powerful thing.

Exactly... What many (not all) of the CT'ers on this board want is total conformity to the "conspiracy" angle on 9/11. That's why we have the constant accusations of being paid shills, brainwashed idiots, and unsympathetic fascists. Every couple weeks or so there is another thread just like this one, demanding that one side of the debate justify their reasons for even participating in the discussion.

In reality, without the debunker presence on ATS, the 9/11 forum goes one of 2 ways. The possible results are that either the board dies, because discussion of a foregone conclusion is boring, or the board descends into idiotic infighting between no-planers and everyone else.

If you want total conformity to your BS, just go to one of the boards on the internet that ban debunkers. If ATS was in the business of shutting down debate or free speech, I'd have been banned long ago. Maybe this forum just isn't the right place for you (NOT ASKING YOU TO LEAVE, JUST SAYIN')

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Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by thegameisup

 

I disagree with the claims of Richard Gage and can only hope that he hasn't designed any building I enter. He is a cash hound feeding on the desires of those who want a conspiracy.

The thread isn't really about your views on every aspect on 9/11, but more as to reasons why debunkers spend so much time on 9/11 forums, continually defending the official story presented by the American government, the media (fuelled by the government), and the governments investigations into 9/11.

If for whatever reason you have a problem with Richard Gage's extensive work, please do make your own thread on that.

However, it seems that you dislike anyone that may have profitted from conspiracy theories, but you are happy to be a member on ATS, which does operate as a business?

If ATS is operating as a business, and indirectly profitting from 9/11conspiracy theories, then surely if you are against any profitting from 9/11, you would keep away from 9/11 forums?

All websites cost money to keep running, Politicians have ten's on millions pumped into their campaigns, and people still support them, all Richard Gage is doing is keeping his efforts going, and I commend him for all his efforts and persisting to find the real truth about 9/11. Like a politican, it cost money to keep a campaign going, and Richard Gage has to finance his endeavours somehow.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
Why do I spend time here?

Well first, the motto of ATS is Deny Ignorance. And yet, not a day goes by that someone who does not believe that it was Osama and his merry band of murderers who did it, posts the most uninformed (ignorant) things.

Those are just a sample of the crap that gets posted again and again on ATS....normally as the latest "smoking gun" by people too lazy to do some honest research. That's why I spend time here, trying to make sure people actually research things for themselves, rather than swallowing everything that comes from Avery, Jones, Gage, Ryan, et al.....

Yes, the website's mottos is 'deny ignorance' but it seems to me that those looking for the truth are the ones that should implement this motto.

For example: I provided a video testimony of fireman Jimmy Grillo recently, he clearly says on the Larry King show that he was in the south tower when the lobby collpased, he didnt say when the tower actually collapsed, and it's well documented by eye witnesses that the lobby collapsed well before the tower collpased, and this was due to a series of 3 explosions, which Jimmy clarifies in another video.

Yet one debunker here, kept trying to twist Jimmy's video interview to say he was in the Marriot hotel, he clearly was not, even if there are a couple of dubious websites that have said this, and those websites are clearly spreading disinfo. It appeared that the 'debunker' in question was trying to change the truth because the explosions in the lobby did not fit with their 'jet fuel' theory, becuase Jimmy arrived in the south tower lobby after the building was already on fire. www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's in these instances of blatant spreading of disinfo that the motto 'deny ignorance' should be upheld.

You have stated that you disagree with some of the things the people you call 'truthers' say, and so you take it upon yourself to "make sure people actually research things for themselves".

But why would it concern 'debunkers' so much, how do you/they know what is 100% truth or not? How do you know the government are not telling lies?

This is the problem, you cannot be certain that the OS is what they say it is, and people are capable of deciding what they want to believe, without the need for 'debunker's' shaping their opinions, because 'debunkers' are rarely right, they seem hellbent on trying to convince people that the official story is correct, and with most government's untrustworthy histories, one would be wise to question everything they tell us.