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posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Thinking back to when this forum opened early 2011, there were a lot of whoops and cries of delight from chemtrail believers that this was (paraphrasing) finally going to give them the platform they needed to bring the evil to the notice of the world and get it stopped. (eg see this thread www.abovetopsecret.com...)

That doesn't seem to have happened though.

Quite the opposite in fact - it has given believers an easy space to state their case for sure - but it has also made it that much easier to point out the errors and sometimes downright dishonesty in their "case".

It has equally been a forum for bringing verifiable information to people. I have no idea whether anyone has been "converted" from "belief" or not.

IMO this has happened because this forum is not moderated (except for poor behaviour of various types) - so factual information can be posted right next to unsupported claims, and the merits of both debated.

As a result there seem to be fewer and fewer new claims of "chemtrails" existing. I think there has been some change of emphasis to now claiming that geoengineering is taking place via spraying of something - but even that has died down somewhat for the same reasons IMO - unsupported claims that cannot be sustained in a free discussion of evidence.

##snipped##

I am not surprised by this of course - IMO the whole "chemtail/geo-engineering spraying" meme can only exist in a vacuum of knowledge and evidence.
edit on 10-7-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)
edit on Fri Jul 13 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: Terms and Conditions of Use--Please Review




posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

As a result there seem to be fewer and fewer new claims of "chemtrails" existing. I think there has been some change of emphasis to now claiming that geoengineering is taking place via spraying of something - but even that has died down somewhat for the same reasons IMO - unsupported claims that cannot be sustained in a free discussion of evidence.


I disagree.

I think the reason there are fewer claims on ATS is because this site has a limited amount of members. Most of the evidence has already been presented and people are tired of circular arguments with the the team of debunkers.

Neither side has enough evidence at the moment the prove their case. You have not dis-proven anything. However, all the evidence I have seen presented here, leads me to think that Geoengineering is taking place and that chemtrails are being used in those experiments.

I have seen a large increase of people talking about chemtrails on facebook lately. The fact that less discussions are taking place here only reflects a very small percentage of people. The reason for it may vary and there are many factors. The least of them being that anyone has been convinced by debunkers.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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I must say that was well said.


Thank you...



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus


Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

As a result there seem to be fewer and fewer new claims of "chemtrails" existing. I think there has been some change of emphasis to now claiming that geoengineering is taking place via spraying of something - but even that has died down somewhat for the same reasons IMO - unsupported claims that cannot be sustained in a free discussion of evidence.


I disagree.

I think the reason there are fewer claims on ATS is because this site has a limited amount of members. Most of the evidence has already been presented and people are tired of circular arguments with the the team of debunkers.


and tired of the repeated suggestions of believers that have long been debunked.

I am reasonably sure you are correct that fewer believers are on here - and I suspect they have left because on here "debunkers" don't get censored.



Neither side has enough evidence at the moment the prove their case. You have not dis-proven anything.


I wasn't trying to!



However, all the evidence I have seen presented here, leads me to think that Geoengineering is taking place and that chemtrails are being used in those experiments.


good luck with that.


I have seen a large increase of people talking about chemtrails on facebook lately.


Indeed - chemtrail pages on FB can also be censored, and often are - my reasoning applies to them too.


The fact that less discussions are taking place here only reflects a very small percentage of people. The reason for it may vary and there are many factors. The least of them being that anyone has been convinced by debunkers.


and I never suggested that was the reason - but thank you for so publically demonstrating your inability to grasp the point I was making.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by IpsissimusMagus
 





Most of the evidence has already been presented and people are tired of circular arguments with the the team of debunkers.


You do understand the reason debunkers keep giving the same argument is because the chemtrail believers never bring any new evidence to support their claims.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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I think you're missing an important phenomenon which I discovered a few years ago.
"Chemtrails" Are Seasonal

Here's a chart showing the monthly occurrence of new "chemtrail" threads.


Interestingly, the chart bears a striking resemblance to this chart showing the frequency of persistent contrail formation.
journals.ametsoc.org...

Come the end of summer, expect to see an increase in "chemtrail" threads along with the increase in persistent contrails to be expected with cooler, damper weather.
edit on 7/10/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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To outright disreguard the mountains of evidence that geo-engineering is at the very "Least" being tested is foolish....you don't have the "big guns" involved with something that isn't true......I agree, well said IPM......there is reason for great concern over this......



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


The first chart showing "chemtrail threads" was made by you.

In your other thread you state ......


Originally posted by Phage

The data was obtained by performing a search for "chemtrails". The sample consists of 136 threads, the first being started on July 30, 2002 and the most recent on November 25, 2008. Here is a chart of the results, the y axis is the number of threads started and the x axis is the month in which the threads were initiated.


You provide zero data other than your own biased opinion.

FAKE




posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by IpsissimusMagus
 


So Phage tells you how you can replicate the data, and you say that is not data but just his "own biased opinion"?

Thanks again for providing some insight into your thought processes - but have you ever thought that replicating it yourself would be a good way to deny ignorance?

'cos what you have just done here is demonstrate it
very publically.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by IpsissimusMagus
 

Actually I did provide the data. In fact another member used the data I provided to produce their own chart.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


But go ahead, feel free to demonstrate that my data was fake. Perhaps you could produce a more up to date dataset.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


HAHAHA predicting ATS threads like teh weather.

NOW that would be a good ATS news segment...



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by MountainLaurel
To outright disreguard the mountains of evidence that geo-engineering is at the very "Least" being tested is foolish....you don't have the "big guns" involved with something that isn't true......I agree, well said IPM......there is reason for great concern over this......


What tests have been carried out?

I am certain that geo-engineering is being studied - but AFAIK the only actual test I'm aware of was cancelled

Certainly that was planned - but it's not exactly what people think of as chemtrails - no jetliners involved, for example, no barium, no aluminium.

and supposedly this has all been happening, full scale, for the last 15 years or so - not jsut being in research & test stages now!



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


What source was the search performed?

He states that the data is based on 136 threads posted within a 6 year period.

That sounds to me like biased and inaccurate data collection.

You have just displayed your ignorance very publicly.




posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Are you saying you're not biased?

You had a hypothesis and set out to prove it.

Your thread is titled "Study Finds Chemtrails Are Seasonal"

Study conducted by you alone. Using data from where?

This is a total farce no wonder nobody wants to discuss this topic with you people.

Go ahead and enjoy your fake charts. I'm not wasting my time.

It's obvious to me your agenda is not about denying ignorance.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by IpsissimusMagus
 


the implication is that it was done here on ATS - and the description given is sufficient for you to replicate it. The source for the

If you are after the truth why wouldn't you do so instead of whining?



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 





If you are after the truth why wouldn't you do so instead of whining?


I'm not whining at all. In fact I'm laughing at your ignorance.

Contrary to your belief system, the World is much larger than ATS forums.

I don't choose to base my opinions or beliefs solely on what I find and read here.

Step outside your cave once in awhile.

ETA:

Any "study" ....
...... based on how many chemtrail thread are posted on ATS doesn't really sound like a worthwhile activity to me. That sounds like a practice in stupidity. I choose not to participate in that foolishness.
edit on 7/10/2012 by IpsissimusMagus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:56 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by IpsissimusMagus
 


He states that the data is based on 136 threads posted within a 6 year period.
As pointed out, there were 136 threads with the word "chemtrail" in the title for that period of time. What, do you think I should have included threads with the word "Nibiru" in the title? I then simply plotted the months in which those threads were started.


You had a hypothesis and set out to prove it.
And there is something wrong with that? The dataset I used supported my hypothesis. That's the way basis science works (though I never claimed my method was scientific). If you think there is something wrong with the method feel free to say why (specifically). You will see that there were several criticisms within that thread.


Study conducted by you alone. Using data from where?
I provided the source of the data. It was quite clearly stated.


Go ahead and enjoy your fake charts. I'm not wasting my time.

You claim that "chemtrail" threads are not seasonal? Prove it.
You claim that persistent contrails are not seasonal? Prove it.
edit on 7/10/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


The amount of ridiculous threads that you post on chemtrails alone is enough to altar any real data.

`Are we supposed to count this thread too?



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by IpsissimusMagus
 

Sure, why not.
Even though it would mess up my hypothesis by increasing the number of "chemtrail" threads started in the summer.





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