Chi Kung Master --Moves Objects with Mind

If he's moving those objects with his mind then why does he yell?

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by DukeEligos
I find it strange because it seems he actually is moving the objects , but vid quality isn't good

His own home,
his own table,
covered with a tablecloth.

If he was a faker, doing entertainment magic tricks, he's been given the absolute perfect environment for it.

Of course it could be real, but then... not a single person on earth has been able to replicate these feats in a testing environment with even a fraction of the ability.

eg:
Lets say that pan of water weighs 2kg. Thats 2000 grams.
Accurate force meters are readily cheaply available that can measure 0.001 grams ($20 on ebay).
So to demonstrate your Chi abilities to the world, one only needs 0.00000005 of the ability of this man.
And yet, nobody has.
Ever.

edit on 10-7-2012 by alfa1 because: (no reason given)

What if the testing environments are rigged, or are the reason it can't work.

Maybe it needs to be done in a more natural setting.

He's yelling to distract us from the fakery.

But qi gong masters do occasionally grunt or yell to focus their energy.

But the guy in the video is a known fake. The video has ben around for a while in the martial arts community and forums.

I want to believe but...

I re-ran the video several times and there is a noticable bulge under the brick.

no star...no flag as I don't like snake oil.

My wife says the old man is not faking his skill, she says the other Qigong artists are jealous of his skill, and they have been seen before decrying him as a fake..
This has been covered before in the news in China more than a few times..

Originally posted by adjensen
... but I seem to recall a few years ago that the thing changed to only accept applications from well known supernatural touters

Incorrect.
Getting an article about you in your local paper will be enough.

Originally posted by adjensen
... there would be some part of it, some piece, that would be held out as evidence that they failed.

Incorrect.
The criteria for "pass" is defined before the test is done.

Originally posted by adjensen
In the end, I honestly believe that, in Randi's "final judgement" (as I recall, he has the last say in any awarding,)

Incorrect.
James Randi may or may not be present at these tests, but he will not interact with the materials used nor interfere with the protocol once a test is underway.


Although there are a lot of people on the net who dislike the JREF "million dollar challenge", I've never found any of them to actually knows anything about it.

James Randi?

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by adjensen
... but I seem to recall a few years ago that the thing changed to only accept applications from well known supernatural touters

Incorrect.
Getting an article about you in your local paper will be enough.

Well, whatever it is, it appears to have ground applications to a halt. JREF lists this forum as listing "Challenge Applications" and it looks to be dead since 2008.

Originally posted by adjensen
... there would be some part of it, some piece, that would be held out as evidence that they failed.

Incorrect.
The criteria for "pass" is defined before the test is done.

Okay, so help me out here. Let's say that I apply for the challenge, and claim that I can teleport from one side of the stage to another. During the challenge, I am seated in chair one, when suddenly there is a power failure. When the lights are restored, I am seated on the other side of the stage, and state that I teleported there.

Do I get the million?

No, thought not. You'd make me do it again, with the lights on, even though "the lights need to be on" wasn't on the list of criteria needed to "pass", and neither was "you have to do it twice", even though that's what you're making me do.

Perhaps you can see how "The criteria for 'pass' is defined before the test is done." is meaningless if JREF doesn't want to pay out.

Originally posted by adjensen
In the end, I honestly believe that, in Randi's "final judgement" (as I recall, he has the last say in any awarding,)

Incorrect.
James Randi may or may not be present at these tests, but he will not interact with the materials used nor interfere with the protocol once a test is underway.

Although there are a lot of people on the net who dislike the JREF "million dollar challenge", I've never found any of them to actually knows anything about it.

My apologies. I was, perhaps, basing that statement on this article (I read a lot of technical stuff, so I don't know if I read this particular piece or not):

To date, James Randi has provided no scientific evidence of any kind to support his accusations. No test protocol for the challenge was stipulated in the original accusation, however James Randi reserves the right to change test protocol in any way he personally desires.

(Source)

Just a magic trick.. Those are special bricks with a device inside that make them move .. Simple Criss Angel stuff

reply to post by alienreality


Your wife is right, this man is not a fake, and he is not faking what he is doing.

For all of those people stating this man is a fake, then prove it - show us a video of someone stating this man is a fake, or a news article from real news media.

This man is real, and he knows what he's doing, and you can tell that he has done much practicing over the years.

Originally posted by adjensen
No, thought not. You'd make me do it again, with the lights on, even though "the lights need to be on" wasn't on the list of criteria needed to "pass", and neither was "you have to do it twice", even though that's what you're making me do.

Well that depends on what the agreed testing protocol was. Doing it once, twice, dark, light, it all has to be settled beforehand.
And I'm not sure why you expect ME to know what SOMEBODY ELSE would do in an imaginary hypothetical situation anyway.

But its good that you've found the JREF website and are now 1 million times more informed than most people who talk about the testing.

Originally posted by adjensen
... basing that statement on this article (I read a lot of technical stuff, so I don't know if I read this particular piece or not):

Okay, James Randi, the ball is now in your court. Here's the full text of the challenge response:

That "challenge" generated a 15 page thread at the JREF site, but I'm not seeing that Fremer ever got himself organised enough to fill out the application form.

I dont think anybody anywhere jumps at the chance to test anybody who just writes stuff up on the net.

But Randi did make some comments anyway...

... we never got to the stage of designing the protocol.
Until we settle the basics, we cannot move any further…

I always opt to not be present at such tests, for this very reason – the possibility that I might choose to put out “negative vibes” to inhibit the results. That is actually put forth seriously by the believers.

link

Originally posted by alfa1
And I'm not sure why you expect ME to know what SOMEBODY ELSE would do in an imaginary hypothetical situation anyway.

It was the empirical "you", I didn't mean you specifically.

But its good that you've found the JREF website and are now 1 million times more informed than most people who talk about the testing.

Oh, I am well aware of the JREF and have been for many years -- my comments are not made in a vacuum. Aside from matters religious, I am probably as skeptical as anyone who posts in their forums, but I don't believe in what I consider to be the intent of the Randi Prize, as I wrote above. Because of the way it is structured, operated and promoted, I cannot see it as anything other than a scam, intended to be fodder in an argument that it doesn't deserve to be.

No the guys a fake. GO to several martial arts forums and search the video. It's been brought up several times over the last few years. Everybody including qi gong masters say the dude is fake.

It's not a jealousy thing it's a -Thats not qi gong or what it looks like or how it manifests period kind of thing.

Also the Shaolin Monks who are bending rebar with their throats and do other similar feats like throw needles through glass or can take blows from a machete without getting cut are all stage performers. They are doing a subset of "Qi Gong" taught for entertainment purposes only and it is not considered qi gong even behind closed doors amongst themselves. Just parlor tricks.

Don't get me wrong there are Shaolin Monks who do this sort of stuff for performance who are excellent Qi GOng masters. Want to see real buddhist qi gong. (it's not that exciting) check out routines like xui xi jin, Ba Duan Jin, yi jing jin. Although in my opinion the Taoist know a hell of a lot more Qi Gong than the Buddhists. I suggest checking out their Nei Gong philosophies and practices. Once you get a better understanding of what Qi GOng really is then you will see thatthis video has nothing to do with Qi Gong.

Originally posted by ZacharyW
Show them any video, they still wont believe it.

We can't anymore. We all know the capabilities with today's Graphic editing programs. Video-picture doesn't matter. You have to see it to believe it.

reply to post by DukeEligos


Yea just another snake oil salesmen . I remember this dude , watched a nice follow up series ..

Originally posted by seedofchucky
reply to post by DukeEligos

 

Yea just another snake oil salesmen . I remember this dude , watched a nice follow up series ..

Though I don't believe for two seconds that the first guy is real, there's nothing in this video that shows he isn't. I hope, very much, that this is part one of a million or something, because trotting out some guy in the last ten seconds to say "as a magician, I feel that this isn't real" is about as credible as the original video.

This is no parlor trick, this is real, and the old man is showing that its real. They may not know for sure why it works, but it does work.

The videos prove that it works, and that they don't know why it works.

reply to post by adjensen


James Randi has been sick with cancer for a number of years, and only just finished chemo I think in 2010. Last I read the JREF challenge was closed in 2010 or there abouts? Though it seems a significant amount of the infrastructure is still up.

Regardless if you like Randi or not, I suspect dorks like John Edwards have made significantly more money than James Randi as a debunker. He was offered a show many years ago and the networks were quite keen. It was meant to be him hunting down paranormal events such as psychics etc ... Negotiations ended when they asked him how many cases were likely to be legitimate and he said ... 'none'.

Derren Brown has had significantly more success and shares the same views as Randi. So I believe there are plenty of people for these cases to be submitted to except it seems no one wants to!

As a general note, I don't trust the media as a judge of supernature. It's just far too slanted in the media's best interest to leave it inconclusive or (worse) endorse fakers. Think of these two headlines:

Amazing man might be able to see the future!

Mentally ill man is mentally ill!

reply to post by BASSPLYR



But Bassy, what you describe (the force) is exactly what this old chap is also generating in the video....notice how the tablecloth moves as if acted upon by some Divine wind....

My comment about the a cgi video job, was pure sarcasm....Im good at that.

Originally posted by Pinke
Regardless if you like Randi or not, I suspect dorks like John Edwards have made significantly more money than James Randi as a debunker.

I don't doubt that for a moment. People want to be amazed, not brought down to Earth.

Derren Brown has had significantly more success and shares the same views as Randi. So I believe there are plenty of people for these cases to be submitted to except it seems no one wants to!

As I said, people don't apply because there is little to no reason to, and a lot of reasons not to. Sadly, this just plays into the scam.

As a general note, I don't trust the media as a judge of supernature. It's just far too slanted in the media's best interest to leave it inconclusive or (worse) endorse fakers.

I wouldn't disagree with that, at all. Like I said, apart from religion, I'm fairly skeptical of paranormal claims, and I don't believe that vast majority of religious claims, either.