Why Do Some People Die Young?

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

First of all, death is permanent.

Do you have proof of this?

You're free to hold your own beliefs.... but this isn't true

Yes. When someone I know dies, I never see them again. Their corpse goes into the ground never to rise. They cease to exist. What's your proof?

Synchronicity. Realisation that something can make me hear things that no others hear if wants. Have only happened ones time in my life but it was enought and the sound was very informative. Things sensed with touch that are not seen in third dimensional space. Personal proof yes but information on the effects is in Christianety, Buddism and Hinduism. It is hard not to belive in invisable friends when the answer you.

I agree. I cannot deny their claims. For all I know they actually believe they've seen a ghost or heard a sound. You see synchronicity, I see is chaos, theres no difference.

I think you will find your own proof when you have need for it so it is nothing to really worry about. Enjoy whatever you want this to be.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by apushforenlightment

 

When one listens to another preach... He opens himself up to the preachers "error", if any...

What happens when the blind lead the blind?

Everything that is needed is there for all to read... but religion is more listening then reading.

If you ever find a logical error in my reasoning then tell me . I want to find all my blind spoots.

Originally posted by AlphaX
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

As I've seen the "suicide promotion" thing a few times now, I'm surprised Angellicview hasn't mentioned what I'm about to talk about. I want to mention first that these are my beliefs and you will get no proof from me. I'm not out to convince you of anything, I merely want to provide you with my view on the matter and if you disagree, that's fine.

I believe that whenever someone commits suicide there are multiple things that happen that are very negative and detrimental to the person. First, they basically throw away everything that they were there for in that life. All the lessons and experiences have to be relearned and relived. Second, since you go through a review of your life when you die, experiencing all of the things you've done through others eyes, good and bad, you have to experience the pain that anyone who cared for you felt after you killed yourself. Be it one person or twenty, you have to experience all of that and it can be really overwhelming. Of the few stories I've heard of failed suicide NDEs or communication with people who successfully committed suicide, no one was ever glad they did it.

When you kill yourself, you're essentially resetting your life because you have to relive the same experiences over again. You wanted those life experiences for a reason and while they may be negative, if you make it through, you will have grown so much. What I'm trying to say is, suicide is never the answer because you'll just have to do it all again anyway and you'll have to suffer great emotional pain because of it.

As I said earlier, I have a lot of beliefs about this subject, most of which I believed before I had ever heard about them. I'll answer questions and share more of my beliefs if anyone wants but I don't have a lot of concrete evidence for this stuff and I genuinely don't want to force anyone to believe anything so I'm not going to start debating with people about how I'm right and they're wrong. I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I just wanted to express how I felt about the suicide thing since people were sort of attacking the TC about it.

Thank you for your interpretation. I have read it and considered it. I would appreciate the same respect.

The question I wish to ask is: what happens when everyone who has no clue about death or the afterlife, starts preaching to everyone that "life is a prison," "shed your physical self," "I have heard the dead say they are glad they ditched their physicals selves," etc.? What we are getting is a doctrine of death. Before long, if people begin to believe such madness, they will think: "why put up with the suffering of life, when death is an easy way out?" "Why not do as the dead do, and shed our physical selves?"

Am I the only one who sees the danger in preaching this? that to truly be free and happy is to die? There is something great in not fearing death, but to promote it, and to dishonour life, is suicide.

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by AlphaX
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

As I've seen the "suicide promotion" thing a few times now, I'm surprised Angellicview hasn't mentioned what I'm about to talk about. I want to mention first that these are my beliefs and you will get no proof from me. I'm not out to convince you of anything, I merely want to provide you with my view on the matter and if you disagree, that's fine.

I believe that whenever someone commits suicide there are multiple things that happen that are very negative and detrimental to the person. First, they basically throw away everything that they were there for in that life. All the lessons and experiences have to be relearned and relived. Second, since you go through a review of your life when you die, experiencing all of the things you've done through others eyes, good and bad, you have to experience the pain that anyone who cared for you felt after you killed yourself. Be it one person or twenty, you have to experience all of that and it can be really overwhelming. Of the few stories I've heard of failed suicide NDEs or communication with people who successfully committed suicide, no one was ever glad they did it.

When you kill yourself, you're essentially resetting your life because you have to relive the same experiences over again. You wanted those life experiences for a reason and while they may be negative, if you make it through, you will have grown so much. What I'm trying to say is, suicide is never the answer because you'll just have to do it all again anyway and you'll have to suffer great emotional pain because of it.

As I said earlier, I have a lot of beliefs about this subject, most of which I believed before I had ever heard about them. I'll answer questions and share more of my beliefs if anyone wants but I don't have a lot of concrete evidence for this stuff and I genuinely don't want to force anyone to believe anything so I'm not going to start debating with people about how I'm right and they're wrong. I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I just wanted to express how I felt about the suicide thing since people were sort of attacking the TC about it.

Thank you for your interpretation. I have read it and considered it. I would appreciate the same respect.

The question I wish to ask is: what happens when everyone who has no clue about death or the afterlife, starts preaching to everyone that "life is a prison," "shed your physical self," "I have heard the dead say they are glad they ditched their physicals selves," etc.? What we are getting is a doctrine of death. Before long, if people begin to believe such madness, they will think: "why put up with the suffering of life, when death is an easy way out?" "Why not do as the dead do, and shed our physical selves?"

Am I the only one who sees the danger in preaching this? that to truly be free and happy is to die? There is something great in not fearing death, but to promote it, and to dishonour life, is suicide.

I just wish death was so easy.

reply to post by michael1983l


Life is the only logical answer to life. There's unfathomable amounts of beauty and love here. Every embrace, every kiss and every single moment is found here.

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by AlphaX
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

As I've seen the "suicide promotion" thing a few times now, I'm surprised Angellicview hasn't mentioned what I'm about to talk about. I want to mention first that these are my beliefs and you will get no proof from me. I'm not out to convince you of anything, I merely want to provide you with my view on the matter and if you disagree, that's fine.

I believe that whenever someone commits suicide there are multiple things that happen that are very negative and detrimental to the person. First, they basically throw away everything that they were there for in that life. All the lessons and experiences have to be relearned and relived. Second, since you go through a review of your life when you die, experiencing all of the things you've done through others eyes, good and bad, you have to experience the pain that anyone who cared for you felt after you killed yourself. Be it one person or twenty, you have to experience all of that and it can be really overwhelming. Of the few stories I've heard of failed suicide NDEs or communication with people who successfully committed suicide, no one was ever glad they did it.

When you kill yourself, you're essentially resetting your life because you have to relive the same experiences over again. You wanted those life experiences for a reason and while they may be negative, if you make it through, you will have grown so much. What I'm trying to say is, suicide is never the answer because you'll just have to do it all again anyway and you'll have to suffer great emotional pain because of it.

As I said earlier, I have a lot of beliefs about this subject, most of which I believed before I had ever heard about them. I'll answer questions and share more of my beliefs if anyone wants but I don't have a lot of concrete evidence for this stuff and I genuinely don't want to force anyone to believe anything so I'm not going to start debating with people about how I'm right and they're wrong. I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I just wanted to express how I felt about the suicide thing since people were sort of attacking the TC about it.

Thank you for your interpretation. I have read it and considered it. I would appreciate the same respect.

The question I wish to ask is: what happens when everyone who has no clue about death or the afterlife, starts preaching to everyone that "life is a prison," "shed your physical self," "I have heard the dead say they are glad they ditched their physicals selves," etc.? What we are getting is a doctrine of death. Before long, if people begin to believe such madness, they will think: "why put up with the suffering of life, when death is an easy way out?" "Why not do as the dead do, and shed our physical selves?"

Am I the only one who sees the danger in preaching this? that to truly be free and happy is to die? There is something great in not fearing death, but to promote it, and to dishonour life, is suicide.

Well as history has shone us, some cults do believe this way but it's not a belief that has ever become widespread. I genuinely hope that what you're talking about never happens and part of the reason I posted my response was because of that; To show that suicide is not the way to go and even though death isn't a bad thing, that doesn't mean you should kill yourself to experience it quicker.

I think it gives people hope to believe that there is something more after you die and it might even be a joyous experience that you don't have to be afraid of. Fear is a good way to control people and fear of death is one of the most common fears. When you don't fear death, it's much harder to be controlled. I also don't think that our lives here are prison sentences but I don't really have much more to say about that right now.

Also, in my opinion, the point of life is to learn and to help others learn. I'm not trying to say that the only way to be happy is to die, I'm trying to say that even if your life seems mundane or negative, there is a purpose to it and that your pain was not felt for nothing. I'm trying to give a potential purpose to life. I'm not trying to promote death but to take some of the fear out of dying. It may not be for everyone but it's what I believe and I think it's a positive message.

I hope that was respectful and I do respect your opinions. Was there anything I didn't address?

Originally posted by AlphaX

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by AlphaX
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

As I've seen the "suicide promotion" thing a few times now, I'm surprised Angellicview hasn't mentioned what I'm about to talk about. I want to mention first that these are my beliefs and you will get no proof from me. I'm not out to convince you of anything, I merely want to provide you with my view on the matter and if you disagree, that's fine.

I believe that whenever someone commits suicide there are multiple things that happen that are very negative and detrimental to the person. First, they basically throw away everything that they were there for in that life. All the lessons and experiences have to be relearned and relived. Second, since you go through a review of your life when you die, experiencing all of the things you've done through others eyes, good and bad, you have to experience the pain that anyone who cared for you felt after you killed yourself. Be it one person or twenty, you have to experience all of that and it can be really overwhelming. Of the few stories I've heard of failed suicide NDEs or communication with people who successfully committed suicide, no one was ever glad they did it.

When you kill yourself, you're essentially resetting your life because you have to relive the same experiences over again. You wanted those life experiences for a reason and while they may be negative, if you make it through, you will have grown so much. What I'm trying to say is, suicide is never the answer because you'll just have to do it all again anyway and you'll have to suffer great emotional pain because of it.

As I said earlier, I have a lot of beliefs about this subject, most of which I believed before I had ever heard about them. I'll answer questions and share more of my beliefs if anyone wants but I don't have a lot of concrete evidence for this stuff and I genuinely don't want to force anyone to believe anything so I'm not going to start debating with people about how I'm right and they're wrong. I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I just wanted to express how I felt about the suicide thing since people were sort of attacking the TC about it.

Thank you for your interpretation. I have read it and considered it. I would appreciate the same respect.

The question I wish to ask is: what happens when everyone who has no clue about death or the afterlife, starts preaching to everyone that "life is a prison," "shed your physical self," "I have heard the dead say they are glad they ditched their physicals selves," etc.? What we are getting is a doctrine of death. Before long, if people begin to believe such madness, they will think: "why put up with the suffering of life, when death is an easy way out?" "Why not do as the dead do, and shed our physical selves?"

Am I the only one who sees the danger in preaching this? that to truly be free and happy is to die? There is something great in not fearing death, but to promote it, and to dishonour life, is suicide.

Well as history has shone us, some cults do believe this way but it's not a belief that has ever become widespread. I genuinely hope that what you're talking about never happens and part of the reason I posted my response was because of that; To show that suicide is not the way to go and even though death isn't a bad thing, that doesn't mean you should kill yourself to experience it quicker.

I think it gives people hope to believe that there is something more after you die and it might even be a joyous experience that you don't have to be afraid of. Fear is a good way to control people and fear of death is one of the most common fears. When you don't fear death, it's much harder to be controlled. I also don't think that our lives here are prison sentences but I don't really have much more to say about that right now.

Also, in my opinion, the point of life is to learn and to help others learn. I'm not trying to say that the only way to be happy is to die, I'm trying to say that even if your life seems mundane or negative, there is a purpose to it and that your pain was not felt for nothing. I'm trying to give a potential purpose to life. It may not be for everyone but it's what I believe and I think it's a positive message.

I hope that was respectful and I do respect your opinions. Was there anything I didn't address?

I think we're saying the same thing but in different ways. Thanks for your input.

I only dislike when people try to discredit and dishonour life because they themselves fail to live it. To me it's a great shame and injustice to everything I personally hold dear. This is my reasoning.

Originally posted by AlphaX
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

As I've seen the "suicide promotion" thing a few times now, I'm surprised Angellicview hasn't mentioned what I'm about to talk about. I want to mention first that these are my beliefs and you will get no proof from me. I'm not out to convince you of anything, I merely want to provide you with my view on the matter and if you disagree, that's fine.

I believe that whenever someone commits suicide there are multiple things that happen that are very negative and detrimental to the person. First, they basically throw away everything that they were there for in that life. All the lessons and experiences have to be relearned and relived. Second, since you go through a review of your life when you die, experiencing all of the things you've done through others eyes, good and bad, you have to experience the pain that anyone who cared for you felt after you killed yourself. Be it one person or twenty, you have to experience all of that and it can be really overwhelming. Of the few stories I've heard of failed suicide NDEs or communication with people who successfully committed suicide, no one was ever glad they did it.

When you kill yourself, you're essentially resetting your life because you have to relive the same experiences over again. You wanted those life experiences for a reason and while they may be negative, if you make it through, you will have grown so much. What I'm trying to say is, suicide is never the answer because you'll just have to do it all again anyway and you'll have to suffer great emotional pain because of it.

As I said earlier, I have a lot of beliefs about this subject, most of which I believed before I had ever heard about them. I'll answer questions and share more of my beliefs if anyone wants but I don't have a lot of concrete evidence for this stuff and I genuinely don't want to force anyone to believe anything so I'm not going to start debating with people about how I'm right and they're wrong. I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I just wanted to express how I felt about the suicide thing since people were sort of attacking the TC about it.

Yes! I completely agree with you - and thank you for expanding on that for us

I am very much enjoying reading the conversations going on here!

I don't mean to leave the thread mid-conversation (being as I started it!), but (speaking of LIVING life and enjoying it) I am getting ready to go on vacation. I have been trying to check in here all day as I've been packing up and getting ready to go.

You all carry on. I have to leave in the morning. But I just wanted to let you all know that after that I'll be gone for a week (yaaayyyyyyy!)

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by akushla99

 

Only problem with that , is that while it takes some longer to learn, it is at another's expense..

hence the child abduction analogy.

the abductor may take 1000 lives to fully realize the extent of damage and hurt he/she caused another soul.

The victim gets to live a broken existence, that ends in tragedy and horror, only to come back as a good kid again, who may just be the victim again of a soul who isn't learning the lessons.

I'm just speculating here, because I don't really but into the many lives theory, and quite frankly , until I'm in a state of actually knowing its true, through some great wisdom imparted to me, I'm not sure I ever will.

In theory, what is nice about it, is that in the end everyone will understand what is truly good, and live within good boundaries, through understanding what is truly not good.

edit on 10-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

What You are doing, is looking at and focusing on the 'tree'...the tree is not the forest of the process...so, in focusing on the tree (at that level of observation) you are right...but zoomed out - you have missed all that happens and why...

Akushla

reply to post by akushla99

What You are doing, is looking at and focusing on the 'tree'...the tree is not the forest of the process...so, in focusing on the tree (at that level of observation) you are right...but zoomed out - you have missed all that happens and why... Akushla

No I haven't missed out,.I was watching some birds in the tree...It was interesting , as well as the branches.

I hope I didn't pay you any tuition money for your lessons , because might be quitting your class

Oh well..won't be the first time I miss all that happens and why..

(whistles a tune, and shuffles outa post)

reply to post by angellicview

As someone who has died more then a few times, and I can tell you even when I was a baby I think I can remember dying. Last time was some years ago from a heart attack supposedly my heart inflated and was pumping like crazy to keep me alive. And let me tell you it was quite an interesting experience, and I am really not sure if I actually survived that though. In fact I think I may be a zombie right now or shifted into a similar dimension.

But one thing I can say is that, all that you say. Is just something you want to tell yourself because you can not handle the fact that there is no greater scope other then what you create and no great and meaningful thing to learn that will make you prudently become all zen one mind like, and there is no meaning to life and death, it just is. And we just give it meaning, kind of like what you are attempting to do with the mysteries of life and the oh so sudden unexpected cruelties and deaths that always happen.

There is no great magical lesson to be learned in this existence, it is merely an experience that will shape and change you. Good and Bad are just laylines, everything is a falling away process like chipping at the stone till there is nothing left or it is molded into a form, and so on it goes forever. Everything is just random things flashing before you for an eternity, merely the chance of circumstances and a roll of the dice, everything and and everything that holds you is merely a thing that is there and in the now by chance. And when the chance is gone, so to will it and them, the same can be said with everything in life to there degrees.

Nothing really exists but the moment and the observers of the moment. The gods walk in a endless lane of darkness they really do not know nothing of this existence, or of the world of consequence, or of cause and effect because were they are none of that exists. But for the ones who fall that is. The only real thing that anybody takes away or learned from being in this existence is that being in this existence sucked and they should of never bothered in the first place.

The only thing I can say is that after a while you see things in new lights and the old lights fade away into some long lost corner that was once something you once were, so in a way it really is like growing up and realizing that everything was merely just a stage that got you to the current stage your in now, and the things that mattered back then are mere shadows now, and on and on it so goes till everything falls away all emotions, all feelings, all fears, all loves, everything you can think of and imagine it will all fall away.

In a way it really is like a dream, and when you wake up, there is no "ah" it all makes sense moment, you just forget everything that came before, you get up, and you move on. Things change, things get better, and worse, and all kinds of sh*t in between, but in the end things just change. And death? death is not really real, its just a catalyst but life is the harsher and greater catalyst. The pain however is real, and so is the pleasure, and all of the other emotions and things going on in your head and in this existence.

People die, people live, there is no meaning but what you make of it, so be careful what you make of it. Because if there is a higher lesson to be learned from babies coming and dying in this existence all to learn a lesson, well then I think that lesson drove that poor soul bat sh*t crazy insane long ago, and they wished they would of just got a memo about it.

And remember no one gets out of life alive. It only just gets more bizarre and weird as it all goes on.

The topic is to general try to limit it here ill help. People die from drugs,alcohol,sickness,shot,ran over,starving, etc...

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by akushla99

 

What You are doing, is looking at and focusing on the 'tree'...the tree is not the forest of the process...so, in focusing on the tree (at that level of observation) you are right...but zoomed out - you have missed all that happens and why... Akushla

No I haven't missed out,.I was watching some birds in the tree...It was interesting , as well as the branches.

I hope I didn't pay you any tuition money for your lessons , because might be quitting your class

Oh well..won't be the first time I miss all that happens and why..

(whistles a tune, and shuffles outa post)

edit on 12-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

I have no doubt that this beauty was interesting and distracting...my point, in relation to the OP remains...

We are all our own gurus, unless you subscribe to the view that, anyones' opinion on any random forum site would mean anything - anything enough to assume that I personally, would be assailing yours (or any others') POV, so much so, that it would need to be...defended...

Our 'journeys' are all the same...all that remains are the same questions...most of the answers, in thier own right, are correct in one way or another...it is encumbent, however, on all of us to point out our different ways of seeing and what gets noticed...whether anyone agrees or not, is another point...but then, hearing, seeing, smelling, feeling, touching...and the way the brain machine interprets this is a forum in itself...

Akushlax