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People raised Athiest tend to fall into religion when they grow up.

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posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:16 PM
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You will only stick to a believe when you researched it thru...

A person born Atheist became an Atheist without a reason, their parents made them into...Most Atheist became Atheist from a religion... where they learn the fault of religion.

So i can understand when a kid is born and told you are an Atheist without a reason.

Most Atheist became Atheist, not born Atheist.

When i have a kid, ill tell the kid "Here this is what this book says, this is what this book says, and this is what i think from my experience.. and this is what science says.. you can be whatever you want".




posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
 




Maybe the question is then: since it cannot be validated, why do you accept it? I'm not trying to bait you into anything. I would genuinely like to know, since I apparently lack the confidence to take that leap of faith.


For my answer to be of substance to you, you would have to know who I am. I accept it because I have seen all. I can make this assumption on all based on man throughout all of time. If it were a different way, I would state as such.


So it may be safe to say that until one sees all, he should suspend judgement. I appreciate your insight.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
 




Maybe the question is then: since it cannot be validated, why do you accept it? I'm not trying to bait you into anything. I would genuinely like to know, since I apparently lack the confidence to take that leap of faith.


For my answer to be of substance to you, you would have to know who I am. I accept it because I have seen all. I can make this assumption on all based on man throughout all of time. If it were a different way, I would state as such.


So it may be safe to say that until one sees all, he should suspend judgement. I appreciate your insight.


Very correct, from all sides.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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What's interesting and highly contradictory about an atheist vs. christian argument is:

a supposed atheist, despite not believing in deities, will still share the same fundamental moral codes of Christianity, Buddhism, Confucianism etc. In turn, much of Christian philosophy and morals is derived from Plato, Plotinus and the neo-platonists and other philosophers, who believed in God, but an entirely different one than the Christian God.

So in reality, we can only see people arguing about their supposed labels and the meaning we put behind them, which is the breeding ground for this sort of intolerance on both camps.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by FortAnthem

Originally posted by Toromos

I think a more interesting question is why do Hindus hold such a high retention rate relative to the other religions.


That's something I found interesting as well. I would have thought Islam would have a higher retention rate because they tend to kill converts (in incredibly effective deterrant IMO) but, I never hear about any such thing regarding Hinduism. Although I hardly ever hear ANYTHING about that religion here in the US.


I can shed some lights... One is born a Hindu, a Hindu can be Hindu and be an X religion. Its a common misunderstanding but Hinduism aka Sanata Dharma is not a religion(i believe it became a religion when Christianity and Islam emerged) but it was a way to live.

a Hindu cannot not convert or become converted because there is no such things as "religion" when Hinduism existed(no one knows the origin,but at least 7500-8000 yrs from documents/structures but the actual date might be older) back in the days.

i heard of Hindus who convert during marriage, and if does convert, most of them convert into Catholics(due to missionary but now they have generations of Catholics).
edit on 7/9/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)


Im an Atheist, and a Hindu(well mostly Jainism, Hinduism is formed from part Jain), so i believe in Karma, Energy(Chakra) etc, but not in gods and what not...
edit on 7/9/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

edit on 7/9/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
In turn, much of Christian philosophy and morals is derived from Plato, Plotinus and the neo-platonists and other philosophers, who believed in God, but an entirely different one than the Christian God.


Not sure what Christianity you've been looking at, but Christian philosophy and morals are derived from Judaism, perhaps influenced by neo-Platonism, but most certainly not derived from it. And said influence is largely absent from Christians who aren't moulded by Augustinian theology (i.e.: Eastern Orthodox.) Plato works into it because his philosophy was so ingrained in the Greeks who made up so much of the early non-Jewish church, and who were some of the first theologians.

But at its core, Christianity is a monotheistic, non-dualist religion, which is most certainly not indicative of a prevailing derivation from Plato.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
 




So in reality, we can only see people arguing about their supposed labels and the meaning we put behind them, which is the breeding ground for this sort of intolerance on both camps.


True. If one shared what they believe in, instead of attaching a label to it, I think it would make for a more civil debate. Once someone comes in and say they are an atheist, Christians automatically start judging, and vise versa.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
In turn, much of Christian philosophy and morals is derived from Plato, Plotinus and the neo-platonists and other philosophers, who believed in God, but an entirely different one than the Christian God.


Not sure what Christianity you've been looking at, but Christian philosophy and morals are derived from Judaism, perhaps influenced by neo-Platonism, but most certainly not derived from it. And said influence is largely absent from Christians who aren't moulded by Augustinian theology (i.e.: Eastern Orthodox.) Plato works into it because his philosophy was so ingrained in the Greeks who made up so much of the early non-Jewish church, and who were some of the first theologians.

But at its core, Christianity is a monotheistic, non-dualist religion, which is most certainly not indicative of a prevailing derivation from Plato.


You're right, I should've said influenced. Plato, Plotinus, Aristotle, The neo-platonists, Thomas Aquinus influenced Christianity.

ETA: Plato and Plotinus' influence
Christian Philosophy Wikipedia



Origen was influential in integrating elements of Platonism into Christianity. He incorporated Platonic idealism into his conceptions of the Logos, and the two churches, one ideal and one real. He also held a strongly Platonic view of God, describing him as the perfect, incorporeal ideal. He was later declared a heretic for subscribing to the "too Platonistic" doctrine of the preexistence of the soul.


Augustine of Hippo: Augustine developed classical Christian philosophy, and the whole of Western thought, largely by synthesizing Hebrew and Greek thought. He drew particularly from Plato, the Neoplatonism of Plotinus, and Stoicism, which he altered and refined in light of divine revelation of Christian teaching and the Scriptures. Augustine wrote extensively on many religious and philosophical topics; he employed an allegorical method of reading the Bible, further developed the doctrine of hell as endless punishment, original sin as inherited guilt, divine grace as the necessary remedy for original sin, baptismal regeneration and consequently infant baptism, inner experience and the concept of "self", the moral necessity of human free will, and individual election to salvation by eternal predestination. He has been a major influence in the development of Western theology and his thought, and in particular his works, City of God and Confessions, laid the foundations for Western Philosophy, influencing many of philosophers and making him one of the most influential figures in the history of philosophy.



Clement of Alexandria: Theologian and apologist who wrote on Greek philosophy, using ideas from pagan literature, Stoic and Platonic philosophy, and Gnosticism to argue for Christianity



Justin Martyr: Christian apologist and philosopher whose work often focused on the doctrine of the Logos and argued that many Stoic and Platonic philosophical ideas were similar to ideas in the Old Testament


edit on 9-7-2012 by TheSubversiveOne because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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Moral codes existed long before religion, religion just co-opted them like it does everything else.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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yawn yawn yawn. yet another thread by a "believer" who is so lacking in faith they need to attack atheists yet again. This is so tiresome. Those figures do not say what the change in the those brought up with faith is. If, for example, those brought up with faith become atheists then, given that atheists are a minority, this means that atheism is on the rise EVEN WITH YOUR CHARTS !!!!!!!!!!!! Is that what has got you so worried?

The devil is in the detail. Please provide the detail about the change in belief, from what to what. Plus percentages of those brought up in a particular faith.

Example numbers:

1 million catholics brought up, 680k remain catholic (YOUR 68%) 320k become atheist
100,000 atheist brought up, 30k remain atheist ( YOUR 30%) 70k become catholic

net result:

750k catholic
350k atheist

Thats a 350% increase in atheism WITH YOUR PERCENTAGES.

This is called statistics. Please understand them for what they are. Nonsense without absolute numbers.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by FortAnthem

I believe that all people possess a spiritual side that connects them to a part of this world that cannot be quantified by science. Whether this means there is a God or not, may be up to interpretation but, I believe it is unnatural for people to go about believing that only purely natural, mechanistic forces shaped the world around us while dismissing evidence for another, spititual plane.


This is the problem with believers. You say you believe, but you have no evidence to back up that belief. That's why those of lesser learning find it easier to just believe in one book (the bible) than to spend years studying many books of science.

Though scientists might offer their opinion that there is no god, the truth is that science itself cannot say whether or not there is a god. All science can do is say, there is no logical, rational evidence of a god. It's just like a group of people screaming there's been a murder, but they can't prove it without a body, without a crime scene, and without a murder weapon. This doesn't mean there wasn't a murder; it means the people just couldn't offer up logical, rational evidence.

This lack of evidence, this lack of critical thinking brought on by lack of education, is what leads people to religion and to the belief in a god.

As for the stats, this poll was done by PewForum On religion and Public Life. I have no idea how such a study could be completed. Did they ask all 311billion people? I don't think so.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by yorkshirelad
1 million catholics brought up, 680k remain catholic (YOUR 68%) 320k become atheist
100,000 atheist brought up, 30k remain atheist ( YOUR 30%) 70k become catholic


Um... no.

Yes, they are rates, not counts. But your giant leap in logic there is to believe that the 32% of Catholics become atheists which isn't, of course, even close to the mark. Almost all Catholics who convert go to a Protestant faith. Atheists, on the other hand, don't have another flavour of atheism to convert to, so those 70% are gone, it's a complete change.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
This lack of evidence, this lack of critical thinking brought on by lack of education, is what leads people to religion and to the belief in a god.


I, for one, would stand as someone who is known for critical thinking, has a Master's Degree, was not raised in a religion (until I was a teenager,) and who is a strong believer in God.


As for the stats, this poll was done by PewForum On religion and Public Life. I have no idea how such a study could be completed. Did they ask all 311billion people? I don't think so.


Seriously? You don't understand how statistics work? And you say the religious can't critically think?



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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yet Atheism is by definition it's own religion.

The funny part is they say it isn't by comparing it to things they regard as religion, like a stuffy old churches, but they miss the point completely.

There is no point explaining because they just don't get it. Atheists are determined to evangelize the world with their beliefs.

A silent 'atheist' is probably not an atheist at all.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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If your an atheist you have to believe in evolution. Evolution is a theory, is more fantastic in it's belief system than creation due to the degree of blind faith required.

So an atheist has more faith than all those who believe in a creator who exists outside our time and space combined.

An athiest believes everything came from an explosion of matter in space and cannot explain what that space was, where the matter came from, or what existed beforehand. If nothing at all existed then everything we see today, including the functioning of your brain while reading this came from absolutely nothing......

I think Christians and others have less faith than evolutionists.... and therefore atheists.

All religions require faith... therefore atheism is a religion in it's own right



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


The funny part is those who say they are critical thinkers believe in something as ridiculous as everything came from nothing. And they call themselves intelligent just because they think that nothing else can exist outside of our time and space.?????

That's not intelligence... it's ignorance and expresses a closed mind



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by jiggerj
This lack of evidence, this lack of critical thinking brought on by lack of education, is what leads people to religion and to the belief in a god.


I, for one, would stand as someone who is known for critical thinking, has a Master's Degree, was not raised in a religion (until I was a teenager,) and who is a strong believer in God.


As for the stats, this poll was done by PewForum On religion and Public Life. I have no idea how such a study could be completed. Did they ask all 311billion people? I don't think so.


Seriously? You don't understand how statistics work? And you say the religious can't critically think?


Hey, I'm more than willing to learn something new, so let me give you my idea and then you feel free to tell me the facts. Statistics work, or rather, how polls work is a small group is polled and then probabilities are used to include a whole nation. But, how can one say, ten atheist families have two-point-five children that become religious, and then come to the conclusion that most atheist families are the same?



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

I, for one, would stand as someone who is known for critical thinking, has a Master's Degree, was not raised in a religion (until I was a teenager,) and who is a strong believer in God.


Then please use your well trained mind to offer rational reasons why a god must exist. I do not say this in a sarcastic tone. I have reasons to believe that SOME kind of a god exists; reasons found in the physical world, and not just a matter of blind faith. But, I'd like to hear your reasons.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by pacifier2012
If your an atheist you have to believe in evolution. Evolution is a theory, is more fantastic in it's belief system than creation due to the degree of blind faith required.

So an atheist has more faith than all those who believe in a creator who exists outside our time and space combined.

An athiest believes everything came from an explosion of matter in space and cannot explain what that space was, where the matter came from, or what existed beforehand. If nothing at all existed then everything we see today, including the functioning of your brain while reading this came from absolutely nothing......

I think Christians and others have less faith than evolutionists.... and therefore atheists.

All religions require faith... therefore atheism is a religion in it's own right


This is not true. As an atheist I argue rather forcefully that the Big Bang theory has LOTS of holes in it. The role of an atheist should be to ask, "Prove it" on everything. If there be flaws in a theory (whether in religion, evolution, role of government, economy, ecology...), then the atheist role should be to demand hard-based, irrefutable facts, and never settle for less.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by adjensen

I, for one, would stand as someone who is known for critical thinking, has a Master's Degree, was not raised in a religion (until I was a teenager,) and who is a strong believer in God.


Then please use your well trained mind to offer rational reasons why a god must exist. I do not say this in a sarcastic tone. I have reasons to believe that SOME kind of a god exists; reasons found in the physical world, and not just a matter of blind faith. But, I'd like to hear your reasons.


Personally, I found evidence of God in my studies of mathematics and physics and reasoning through, not the "hows" or "whats", but rather the "whys," but it wasn't until I opened myself up to that existence that I have seen his interaction in my life. As I often say, I didn't study maths in order to find God, but one day I looked, and there he was.

I am one of the few people I know who came to a reasoned faith, rather than a spiritual one, and I recognize that my experience and perspective is of little to no use to others. Hence, I am not an evangelist.



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