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Abductees Are A Fraud

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posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by Wongbeedman
 


Well that's your opinion. As far as I am concerned, I was merely trying to point out that some people who go on tv, internet, etc. that to me (also an opinion) some sound sincere, and some do not.
and besides:

"I believe in extraterrestrials but majority of stuff i see on the subject is bs based on personal belief"

this is your belief, after you just said the personal beliefs should not be posted on a serious subject. O.o




posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by xVAMPx
reply to post by Wongbeedman
 


"I believe in extraterrestrials but majority of stuff i see on the subject is bs based on personal belief"




I can tell you that the majority of stuff on the subject is BS, but not based on just belief.

Remember that confirmational bias, is not just for "believers", "rational skeptics" who believe in anything they can pound on w/their fist- a table for example "I can pound on it, therefore it is solid!" This is an example of assumption , & it is also wrong-Higgs Bozon only accounts for about 2% of mass- The rest is utterly unknown, or space- a grape in the middle of a football stadium". Modern physics is slowly showing us the root assumptions about or ideas about what is "real". "Irrational skleptic? Well, it takes all types, including..well, I'd better not say.

CosmicEgg- I can relate to what you say about experience, but keep in mind that most people have no medium between the personally known, & the utterly unknown. Redicule is a (weak) defense. The average or less than average
person has nothing to relate to the subject with, & will always resort to the fogged coloring of personal lenses, if you can know what I mean. Whereas direct experience in an intelligent & observant individual is equal to hindsight. You will get nowhere, & which state of mind is superior, to you? No need to answer this question, just contemplate. & notice how my first post in this thread was totally ignored-what does this say?

"What people say about you,& what they ignore or leave out, says more about them, than it does about you"...
edit on 11-7-2012 by PeachesEnRegalia because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-7-2012 by PeachesEnRegalia because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by Unidentified_Objective
 


There are as many positive abduction experiences as there are negative. You have to stretch your spectrum of focus a bit to realize that there are different types of abductions and abductors.

Regarding you question as to why they (Grays) would want to abduct us... as I've been told it's because they are here for a single purpose and operate under strict guidelines.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 03:03 AM
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Just in time for Springers bump. www.abovetopsecret.com...
You must be trolling or trying to piss people off, this is a sensitive subject, and just because you can't understand that you shouldn't post it here. As was said before, people don't run around with their cameras, and if they're being woken up in the middle of the night, I wouldn't expect them to snap a picture to satisfy you.
As for the points you made, we don't know why they would want to do this to people. I have also thought to myself- why would they come here if they were so advanced, and could grow their own humans from one persons DNA. Well, maybe they are, you would need a lot of room to grow humans, and maybe the earth is a farm. They seeded the earth, let us grow for 10,000 years, and come back to "rapture" us up and then repeat. (Hypothetical - Not that this is what I believe) By doing that they could be growing many planets worth of humans at a time. As for the four reasons you listed, UFO sightings and abductions are not limited to the drugged and crazies. We don't know their motives, or purpose, and there doesn't seem to be any real answers to that from any accounts given. As for there being no evidence, there is. There are mass sightings (I'm sure they couldn't all have been hallucinating at the same time right?). Astronauts, pilots, scientists, police, military, presidents, doctors et al, have also reported this phenomenon, with nothing to gain from it, and everything to lose. There is physical evidence from radiation, disease, implants, indention and burning on the ground, videos and pictures etc. I'm sure the alien body or craft your waiting on was already grabbed by the government, and odds are you'll never get anywhere near one. Why is there a coverup?
Personally, I believe this is a demonic phenomenon. I'm not a religious person but that is where the evidence is pointing to me. Look at the condition the earth is in, something is going seriously wrong, and activity seems to be more frequent.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by wingdflame
 


If your not religious why would you think theyre demonic



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by wingdflame
 


If your not religious why would you think theyre demonic



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 05:45 AM
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reply to post by xVAMPx
 


True just had to facepalm myself for that haha i know there are alot of credible witnesses, i really enjoyed the disclosure project (trying to ignore the idiot steven greer) but i think its important to stick to what we know (of course what we think we know) remaining hesitant when jumping to conclusions.
In my mind to "believe" is to "hope" but to "know" is to decide whats most likely based on the indisputable evidence we have.
Peace out



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by DissonantOne
I would not call all of them frauds as many simply have undiagnosed psychiatric conditions or delusions brought about by misunderstanding some of the more bizarre neurological functions of the human brain. Things like this include sleep paralysis, hypnogogic hallucinations, or powerful subconscious suggestions as in the case of some types of hypnosis.



I agree fraud would be the wrong word to describe many abductees what I don't agree with is the blanket assumption that mental illness, complex partial siezures, sleep paralysis, hypnogogic hallucinations etc. explain the 'abduction' phenomena. None of this was found to be true when the phenomena has been properly studied. I for one am aware when I'm dreaming, when I have sleep paralysis or hynogogic hallucinations, they are totally different from the 'abduction' type experiences. I also have a relative who has partial seizures- no aliens feature in his confusion and temporary memory loss! How can you dismiss large numbers of people as having these things when you have never met or examined them?

The main reason for dismissing the mental illness factor is that 'abductees' encounter the same types of beings and the same scenarios time after time. Fairies and goblins have been linked up with abduction already on this thread. If you read the research of Rick Strassman ('___' experiments), you'll see that he was surprised to find a certain type of being featuring in the experiences. It seems as if the release of '___' in the brain acts as a gateway to the world where these beings exist. The human brain have the ability to interact with them.Terence Mckenna described them as 'machine elves' .

In my view I think this is what some 'abductees' are experiencing naturally without any drugs. I also think these beings sometimes deliberately cross over into our dimension for various reasons. This explains the beings coming through walls that many abductees see. I think these beings have been with us probably all along, some of us are lucky (or unlucky enough) to be able to interact with them naturally and I think science will come to understand this eventually. I don't think they are all in the mind although their 'reality' is different from ours.

I know some would dismiss this as 'well they saw it on TV' but I know at least in my own case that isn't true. My first 'abduction' memories started when I was very young and there was no exposure to me at that age of anything you could consider Alien or 'gray'. For many years I thought I was the only one that experienced this in my family but in later years my sister stopped ridiculing me and told me about the things she has experienced too. Neither of us has needed any hypnosis to remember. For every one that talks about this stuff there are probably many that don't speak out.

Also there has been physical evidence of abduction. The case of Peter Khoury and the hair he had analysed is compelling. You have the cases of Kerry Cahill and Grace Askew where there were multiple witnesses and physical evidence. It all depends on whether you have the inclination to look beyond the stereotypical, often repeated abduction stories. I think what many can't get their .s round is that there may be more to our world than physical reality.

I think for some people they could only believe this stuff if they experienced it themselves which I understand, maybe one day a loved one will tell you about experiences they've had and you won't be so quick to dismiss them as confused about sleep paralysis or deluded.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by dmsuse
You forgot to include waking dreams.

As most people claim to be abducted while in bed.

Waking dreams can account for about 99% of abductions. No need to even mention the other things.

These can seem so real that people can swear blind they saw what they saw, but it was just a dream.
edit on 8-7-2012 by dmsuse because: (no reason given)


I was quick to put down my experiences to hypnogogic dreaming and my long term sleep paralysis problems, purely for my own peace of mind really. I can't prove anything either way, but I saw what I saw and I felt what I felt. Fact is I've never encountered such realism within a hypnogogic episode like that or any dream for that matter.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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Yes hypnogogic hallucinations could explain some experiences but what about experiences that take place in day time or driving in a car?

Saying that most abductions take place at night is not entirely accurate.
edit on 12-7-2012 by DrHammondStoat because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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Seeing is believing. I've seen. I believe.

If you are fortunate enough that denial of the existence of extraterrestrials still holds true in your own mind, I would be thankful. I have had my own face less than three inches away from that of a Large Nosed Grey.



I don't care if you've been to war, or what else you've seen. If you have not experienced that, you do not truly know what the word "fear," means.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by petrus4
Seeing is believing. I've seen. I believe.

If you are fortunate enough that denial of the existence of extraterrestrials still holds true in your own mind, I would be thankful. I have had my own face less than three inches away from that of a Large Nosed Grey.



I don't care if you've been to war, or what else you've seen. If you have not experienced that, you do not truly know what the word "fear," means.




Seeing is not believing. Seeing is 'knowing'.

We are leaving the era of beliefs and entering an era of knowing. There's a vast difference. Knowledge can't be segregated or challenged anymore.

(..)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by Wongbeedman
 


Because they are able to do things that shouldn't be physically possible. Because they always seem to leave abductee's some weird religious message. Because they are often connected to the occult and spirituality. The ancient alien hypothesis likes to suggest they came here pretending to be gods. A lot of researchers have come to this conclusion, and its not a new theory. Just what I think personally, and even though religious people can be delusional, I'm not going to dismiss this idea based solely on that.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by petrus4
Seeing is believing. I've seen. I believe.

You've been able to "see" in your dreams, haven't you? Perception is not very reliable...

Originally posted by petrus4
If you are fortunate enough that denial of the existence of extraterrestrials still holds true in your own mind, I would be thankful. I have had my own face less than three inches away from that of a Large Nosed Grey.

Did you feel it breathing on you?


No physical evidence, no alien vistors.

Originally posted by petrus4
I don't care if you've been to war, or what else you've seen. If you have not experienced that, you do not truly know what the word "fear," means.

I believe you on this one. Seizure induced hallucination, psychoses, etc, or real(ly unlikely), that would be very uncomfortable to "experience" to have.
edit on 7/12/12 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by Unidentified_Objective
 


Well how about the abductees who had little metallic pieces removed from them and are completely unexplained and ignored by mainstream science. Plus think of it this way, one group of aliens created us and if that meant we aren't the only ones alone in the universe then how many other intelligent species would their be? Hundred, thousands, millions, or billions? For instance there are multiple races of humans on our planet alone. Also there are just hundreds of thousands of species on Earth just ABOVE the water.

My whole point is that the aliens abducting us are more than likely another species possibly trying to study the tech. of the more advanced race that made us. For all we know there could realistically be a Star Wars galaxy out there somewhere. Think about it...



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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I don't question or doubt the possibility of extra terrestrial life. I think the probability that there is another civilization (Or many) out there is quite high. What I question is the validity of alien abduction claims. I keep reading here how there's proof. Where, exactly? This fascinates me so, I am more than willing and open to look into cases where there is proof! Are you referring to the claims? Because those are a dime a dozen. They mean absolutely zero. Human beings lie about the most mundane things. Study after study has shown that people will say what they think other people want to hear or what other people will find appealing. 10 people will interpret the exact same experience in 10 different ways. Given that fact, and the fact that human perception is rarely objective and cannot be relied upon as evidence....I can't help but disregard 99% of the abduction claims as pure unadulterated BS. Human perception alone is enough to realize that even if someone THINKS they know what they saw....9 times out of 10 they are being emotional, irrational & the fear or the unknown has affected their understanding of what actually took place.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by Unidentified_Objective
I don't question or doubt the possibility of extra terrestrial life. I think the probability that there is another civilization (Or many) out there is quite high. What I question is the validity of alien abduction claims. I keep reading here how there's proof. Where, exactly? This fascinates me so, I am more than willing and open to look into cases where there is proof! Are you referring to the claims? Because those are a dime a dozen. They mean absolutely zero. Human beings lie about the most mundane things. Study after study has shown that people will say what they think other people want to hear or what other people will find appealing. 10 people will interpret the exact same experience in 10 different ways. Given that fact, and the fact that human perception is rarely objective and cannot be relied upon as evidence....I can't help but disregard 99% of the abduction claims as pure unadulterated BS. Human perception alone is enough to realize that even if someone THINKS they know what they saw....9 times out of 10 they are being emotional, irrational & the fear or the unknown has affected their understanding of what actually took place.



Then why did you write the "abductions are a fraud?
Why didnt " there is no evidence that abductions are real"?

You say you are open to the idea. If so, why write a title saying
they are all frauds, when you dont even know that. I believe you
chose that title because you knew it would attract the attention
you beed. Why else would you write it?

Lack of evidence does not mean fraud



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by Unidentified_Objective
 


There is evidence, please look up Dr. Roger Leir. This man has offered other doctors to examine
his little finds but no one wants to for the fact they do not want to rewrite history in my opinion.
I believe he has pulled metallic implants out of 7 people in the last documentary I saw. He even
specifies there is a shiny silver membrane around the metallic object that which is extremely
difficult to cut through. What is more wonderful is that this membrane when inside a human reacts
in such a way that it doesn't cause swelling which is natural when something is inserted into human
tissue. He said it is almost like it imitated human cells to attach to them. BTW, all these implants have
been removed out of people who have reason to believe they've been abducted due to loss
of time etc.etc..



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
Also there has been physical evidence of abduction. The case of Peter Khoury and the hair he had analysed is compelling.

Interesting that you would bring up the Khoury case. The DNA was that of a human hair. There is no reason to interpret the result of that test as anything extraterrestrial. Here is an important part of that case to note.

Khoury told Chalker that his encounter of July 23, 1992 began at 7:30 in the morning while he was in bed. He had recently been injured at work and was taking pain medication. Earlier that morning, he had driven his wife to work, then returned home and went back to bed for a short while. Suddenly, he bolted wide awake and sat up. There were two humanoid females sitting on the bed, both entirely naked.

Source: www.ufocasebook.com...

That and the lack of any evidence of anything extraterrestrial being present. I also find it suspect that Khoury hadn't heard about alien abduction before his experiences, but then again, maybe he didn't watch any movies from the 50s-1980/90s when his experiences happened.



Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
You have the cases of Kerry Cahill and Grace Askew where there were multiple witnesses and physical evidence.

The Cahill case's "physical evidence" are some marks on Kerry's leg. The marks could be anything, what is exactly is that evidence of? If she really experienced, or even thought she experienced what she claims, why did she not consult medical professionals or a scientist to examine the marks?


In 1993, Cahill and her family were driving to their home in Australia after midnight when they came upon a bright, blinding light. The next thing she knew, Cahill says, was that it was an hour later and she felt very calm, except for the fact that she had lost an hour’s worth of time. Cahill later noticed strange marks on her body and had unexplained tiredness and an infection for the next week.

Source: smashingtops.com... -encounters/

I couldn't find any reference to physical evidence in the Askew case.

Another Australian woman who claims to have had alien encounters is Grace Askew. She claims to have first seen a UFO when driving around with her girlfriends one night. Then two weeks later, her 15 year old son was screaming at night and said there was a presence in his room and a strange sound. She looked outside and saw the same UFO she’d seen two weeks ago, this time witnessed by her husband as well.

Source: smashingtops.com... -encounters/

After a read of the above excerpt, I'm pretty sure most people will agree that none of those anecdotes are very compelling.

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
It all depends on whether you have the inclination to look beyond the stereotypical, often repeated abduction stories. I think what many can't get their .s round is that there may be more to our world than physical reality.

I think for some people they could only believe this stuff if they experienced it themselves which I understand, maybe one day a loved one will tell you about experiences they've had and you won't be so quick to dismiss them as confused about sleep paralysis or deluded.


I disagree, I think there is actually a majority of people who tend to live in a world where they decide which "facts" are true or not, depending on how they want to see the world. Some people require hard evidence, since this would be very easy to provide if a single one of the extraterrestrial claims of abductees/abduction believers were true.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by Unidentified_Objective
 


The only difference between somebody being abducted and released by other humans and abducted and released by extraterrestrials is people believe it when humans kidnap their fellow man. In both cases such incidents would leave little to no evidence behind other than the alleged victim's testimony.

In a scenario where extraterrestrial visitation to this planet became commonly accepted allegations by ET kidnap victims would be taken seriously.

That's all that needs to be said about your allegations of fraud.



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