It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Abductees Are A Fraud

page: 5
9
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by CosmicEggDo you see any suggestion that this forum is for debunking experiences or reports? Do you note that members who repeatedly demean those posting will be banned?

Pray continue!


It seems you are confused on the point you are making. To paraphrase your quote:
"Members who would seek to refute such theories should be mindful of our tradition of supporting the examination of the extraterrestrial phenomenon on the related conspiracy theories, cover-ups, and scandals.Replies that make fun or otherwise ridicule and demean those posting honest experiences and/or questions will be removed."

No where do I see that skepticism is discouraged and that debunking is against community rules, and I'd be glad if you could point out where it states or implies that. Unless, of course, you interpret skepticism and debunking as ridicule and an attack, and if that is the case you are free to create your own forum where "experiencers" go unchallenged and skeptics and debunkers are banned on site.




posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:39 AM
link   
reply to post by Diablos
 


Your version of rationality is something else, my dear. From Wikipedia:


It is evident from modern cognitive science and neuroscience, studying the role of emotion in mental function (including topics ranging from flashes of scientific insight to making future plans), that no human has ever satisfied this criterion, except perhaps a person with no affective feelings, for example an individual with a massively damaged amygdala or severe psychopathy. Thus, such an idealized form of rationality is best exemplified by computers, and not people. However, scholars may productively appeal to the idealization as a point of reference.


You are mistaken about this forum. Once again, read this forum's description at the top of the page. Please do it. Please understand it. You are not a moderator and your posts here are not compatible with the spirit and purpose of this forum. There is no burden of physical evidence nor any other form of proof here, nor is this for debunking. This is for sharing, discussion, and conjecture. Not proof. Not evidence. Please get that through your rock-solid skull.

Edit: Bertrand Russell (a philosopher and logician, in case you're unfamiliar with him) did a good deal of research into just exactly the colorblindness scenario I used to illustrate my point. But I'm sure you knew that, great mind and well-read specimen that you are.
edit on 9/7/2012 by CosmicEgg because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by CosmicEgg

Your version of rationality is something else, my dear.

Now resorting to the strawman, huh?


Originally posted by CosmicEggYou are mistaken about this forum. Once again, read this forum's description at the top of the page. Please do it. Please understand it. You are not a moderator and your posts here are not compatible with the spirit and purpose of this forum. There is no burden of physical evidence nor any other form of proof here, nor is this for debunking. This is for sharing, discussion, and conjecture. Not proof. Not evidence. Please get that through your rock-solid skull.


I am well accustomed with the terms of service, thank you. Once again, it is you who does not understand the terms of conduct and their implications. You are free to state whatever you like, as I am free to debunk your experience be it UFO sighting, ET sighting, or an abduction. Once again, feel free to report me and I'm sure a moderator will be more than happy to take this up with you.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 02:12 AM
link   
reply to post by Unidentified_Objective
 


The Travis Walton case is the best example. 6 people passed 2 lie detector tests about the incident they all witnessed. For 6 people to pass 2 lie detector tests about something they're meant to be lying about is statistically impossible.

It's that simple. And can be classified as the tangible proof you so desperately require.

Now, to answer your other issues


If you are a bug-eyed sentient being from another planet (Or of extra dimensional origins) why abduct individuals of a species that you genetically engineered or had a hand in manipulating or creating....if you are a species whose technological advancements are such that you can grow your own humans for testing, without having to travel to earth?


Clearly the answer is maybe the 'Greys' weren't the creators of Humankind and that group left this planet a long long time ago. Depictions of the Sumerian Gods who created us look nothing like Greys but everything like some sort of Giant...and supposedly with Blonde hair.



Or if you didn't have a hand in creating or manipulating its evolution, why not take genetic samples or DNA and then grow the specimens in a lab? Ethics? You crossed that line when you abducted people so obviously, ethics are not an issue for you.


Whose to say they haven't tried or maybe their success rate isn't as prolific as just taking them already grown from the planet. Have you investigated how many missing children there are every year? It is quite shocking.

edit on 9-7-2012 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 02:17 AM
link   
reply to post by Diablos
 


No, you are not free to do so in this forum. Here and here will demonstrate your erroneous assertions. You cannot debunk my personal experiences. I am not posting videos or photographs or the like. You cannot debunk what I verbally relate. I have a great many experiences that I will be happy to post when there is a favorable atmosphere - which is what is supposed to reside here. You are making it otherwise. This thread makes it otherwise. The OP has chosen to post some random figures and empty statements of scorn toward abductees. Why staff has not 404'd this thread is beyond me. But debunking is not what is going on here.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 02:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
No, you are not free to do so in this forum. Here and here will demonstrate your erroneous assertions. You cannot debunk my personal experiences. I am not posting videos or photographs or the like. You cannot debunk what I verbally relate. I have a great many experiences that I will be happy to post when there is a favorable atmosphere - which is what is supposed to reside here. You are making it otherwise. This thread makes it otherwise. The OP has chosen to post some random figures and empty statements of scorn toward abductees. Why staff has not 404'd this thread is beyond me. But debunking is not what is going on here.


Once again, you seemed to be very confused to the point that you are inferring things which have not been implied. Perhaps this is what you are interpreting as "skepticism is against the rules, and persistent debunkers will be banned":


Originally posted by neformoreSarcasm, scorn, hostility and personal attacks are the tools of the socially inept. They are not welcome on ATS. ATS is not the comments section of Youtube.



Originally posted by neformoreYes, we are all aware that there are hoaxers and charlatans out there who want to grab attention and maybe make a quick buck off the back of their claims. BUT - and its an important but - by making a hostile environment for people to post in the genuine and unusual cases may get lost, as people will most likely not post them for fear of derision.



Originally posted by tothetenthpowerLet us make this clear. The staff will not tolerate any form of reply that isn’t following the T&C to the letter. This includes insults, condescending remarks, ridicule, the infamous “ This has been posted a million times, use the search feature” complaints.



Originally posted by tothetenthpowerIf as a member, you are unable to post with respect and act like a grown up, then don’t post at all. It will no longer be tolerated and we encourage members to alert posts that do not adhere to the above.


I don't see any where in any of that or the general posts you linked to stating that skepticism is no longer tolerated, that requesting evidence of any UFO or ET experience and or attempting to debunk them is against the rules. Again, it may be my own lack of intelligence and cognitive reasoning that you mentioned earlier, so please feel free to point it out to me.

Also, alien abductions cannot be debated since there isn't any tangible evidence that can be used to support an abductee's experience, so it does not belong in this section, but in the Gray Area section.

The Gray Area is a discussion forum that provides a dedicated area for members to post their confessions, disclosures, and related extraordinary personal experiences. Like the highly speculative Skunk Works forum, The Gray Area will tolerate topics that may be unusually hypothetical or unproven for the purpose of vetting the stories of thread-starters by the ATS membership at large.

Key words: extraordinary, personal, experiences, and unproven.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 02:46 AM
link   
ATTENTION ALL

Members are welcome to share their personal experiences. Members are also welcome to question personal experiences i.e. be sceptic.

BUT you will respect other members and if you question other members you will do so with the proper Civility and Decorum. In other words do not make it personal and don't attack a person's character.

Play the ball, not the player.

Thank you.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 02:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by Gemwolf
ATTENTION ALL

Members are welcome to share their personal experiences. Members are also welcome to question personal experiences i.e. be sceptic.

BUT you will respect other members and if you question other members you will do so with the proper Civility and Decorum. In other words do not make it personal and don't attack a person's character.

Play the ball, not the player.

Thank you.


Finally. This is what I've been trying to get across to a certain poster in this thread. Unfortunately, he/she believe that being skeptical of a personal experience qualifies as a personal attack and is thus not tolerated on this forum.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 03:02 AM
link   
Further:



This is not due to members being lazy or not knowing how to make quality threads, it’s mostly because no member wants to put up with the rude naysayers. And once they’ve joined the fray, having to deal with the rude believers who counter the points made by the other side.

This is not to point the finger at skeptics only. A fair share of these posts can be attributed to believers who cannot take any other opinion than " I agree." This trend must also stop. If you are going to post a UFO video or topic, you can expect to be challenged by others with new ideas or differing opinions.
reply to post by Diablos
 


You CAN NOT debunk my EXPERIENCES. Do you get that? You weren't there. You don't live in my house or in my body. You cannot, without being specifically a naysayer, do this. What I live is my DIRECT EXPERIENCE. There is no burden of proof for that. I am free to post those here without fear of derision or requirement to prove anything at all. But you may not with any justification call that into question. You cannot call into question my experiences. They are not debunkable. They are not bunk.

Do not be a naysayer. It's expressly disallowed here. No member wants to put up with a rude naysayer, as is there in the quote.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 03:34 AM
link   
reply to post by TKDRL
 


human scietists do not return thier " kidnapped " experimentees to the wild



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 03:48 AM
link   
reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


Just playing Devils advocate here but there are tens of thousands of people that disappear around the world each year , maybe ET scientists don't return all of their specimens either .



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 03:49 AM
link   
I don't often come into a discussion, but labeling as you did, prior to expecting a rationale response irked me a bit. First if I were to post my and my wife's experience, you would have to just take our word and actually, my wife would not talk to you, she is very private, rational and a self directed skeptic, always trying to find another reason other than her experiences to explain things. She even tried to deny a pregnancy that was mysteriously terminated with memories of little doctors and this after being neutered late in life. I as a matter of fact kept a journal of this event which happened with her sister as well, whom had not been with a man for over two years. The list goes on, lost time and so forth, but you like Dave want some momento to prove, but that is not important and no, none here fit your description.

As to bug eyed, not so, privately she pointed out a waitress that looked like one of the women she encountered, a good looking gal with normal eyes, yet unique features.

You remind me of a friend named Dave, a skeptic about UFO's. I have seen them, came home and told him of a sighting and he disclaimed my experience as he had no proof, therefore it did not happen



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 04:06 AM
link   
reply to post by Gemwolf
 


However, are "question" is fundamentally different from being required to supply evidence. To what end? This thread is from the outset a naysaying thread. Why is it still open? There is no line of questioning that isn't fundamentally derision here.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 04:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by Diablos
...and the remaining 1% by some physiological phenomenon that is not yet known or understood by scientists and doctors.


This is what I was contemplating. I read the books by John Mack and I was wowed and amazed at first. I started with a Passport to the Cosmos, which was his second book on the subject and then I read the Abuction. While I found the Passport book very compelling and believable, the Abduction made me question a lot of things. I am a medical doctor and I used to study psychiatry and some of the cases described in the Abduction seemed very much like acute psychoses to me.

Take, for instance, a case of "Sheila", who saw these beings come out of her closet and witnessed them walking around her house in groups. I found it really hard to believe. There was also a story of a woman who had a memory of being abducted when she was 13. She claimed she had a foetus of an alien/hybrid taken out of her by aliens during one of the abductions. Obviously there was no evidence to support this.

I am a believer and not a debunker by any means. I saw a few unexplained flying objects and my dad who's a practicing psychiatrist saw a definite flying saucer in the early 80s. I think that some of the abduction stories are true, however I do not dismiss a possibility that we are dealing with a new psychological/psychiatric phenomenon. There's still a possibility that we are dealing with some crazy far-out interdimensional #$@* here, that could account for the most out-there cases. I mean, if we choose to believe that aliens can make our physical bodies go through solid walls, then some kind of an interdimensional pregnancy could also be "real".

Nevertheless I am convinced that a major scientific study is needed to research this phenomenon. The psychiatrists I know are always complaining on the stagnation of the psychiatric science, "nothing left to reasearch", etc. Well, here's one for them...

Too bad, most of them tend to dismiss these people as crazy without taking a longer look.


P.S. I know several psychiatrists personally, the profession runs in our family, actually. None of them, with the exception of my uncle have ever encountered patients who had abduction experiences. As for my uncle, he was part of a board in Ukraine, which was assembled to study a case of a man who was missing for several days and claimed to have been abducted. Uncle does not remember the details unfortunately but he does remember that the man had been proven mentally healthy.
edit on 9/7/2012 by WideOpenSpace because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 04:28 AM
link   
reply to post by CosmicEgg
 


Let's not linger any further on this issue please as it removes focus from the actual topic.

Members can ask each other questions whether it is out of scepticism, for additional information or to confirm a claim, i.e. there is nothing that stops anyone from "asking for proof". Those that are trying to defend their claims can defend their stance by any means they feel necessary. If they cannot or will not provide proof of their claims then it is up to other members to make up their own minds about the claims. That is after all the whole point of so many of our discussions. There is nothing wrong with a healthy amount of scepticism. And you shouldn't feel insulted if people don't believe you. That is their problem, not yours. You know what the truth/your truth is. You share your experiences and people are free to make of it what they will. Scepticism only becomes a problem when people begin to ridicule or insult someone making certain claims. Asking for proof is neither an insult nor unwelcome on ATS - in any of the forums.

This is enough of this issue. Any further posts on what is and what is not acceptable will be removed as off topic. If anyone still doesn’t understand any of the rules or policies, they can contact a moderator for clarification.

Thank you.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 05:00 AM
link   
The government could be stealing people for organs and tissue, nothing to do with aliens.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 08:20 AM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 09:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by Unidentified_Objective
I pose to you a question that may not be popular or very well received round these here parts but, here it is:

If you are a bug-eyed sentient being from another planet (Or of extra dimensional origins) why abduct individuals of a species that you genetically engineered or had a hand in manipulating or creating


Are you a CIA agent? I would say probably. This is Preposterous!

Why would you think that these bug eyed aliens created humans? Aliens could have created humans, but it is obvious the greys are a species that was not familiar with humans and that is why they studied and exploited them.

You have probably had far too many people lie to you. Now you don't believe anybody, you just think the world full of liars. Such a good feeling it is to understand Trust in this world. Good feeling to know that I have no part in creating falsehood in this world - that is a good feeling. Do they feel good for being liars to the world? Does their soul feel good for it?
edit on 9-7-2012 by greyer because: spelling



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 03:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by Gemwolf
 


However, are "question" is fundamentally different from being required to supply evidence. To what end? This thread is from the outset a naysaying thread. Why is it still open? There is no line of questioning that isn't fundamentally derision here.


Not just a naysayer thread, but a thread that, in its very first post, labels abductees as psycho, schitzo, or druggies.

As I said before, this thread is not about discussion. It is about disparaging those that believe in abduction.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 03:37 PM
link   
post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



i) Narcotics and illicit mind-altering substances: Due to abuse of the subject matter by some (promoting various aspects of personal use, and discussing actual personal use), no new topics on this subject are allowed in any form.

Illicit does not mean illegal.


edit on 7/9/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
9
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join