Deny Ignorance? An Experiment

reply to post by jiggerj


ok..I get it..you're talking about it happening consistently.

The one that drives me crazy is when people say "Well, I could care less". I always think, well, if you could care less, then you must care a little bit. The correct phrase is "I couldn't care less" meaning it's not possible to care any less than you already do.

I see very, very few people use that one correctly.

But of course, we all have mistakes we make or misunderstand phrases others think are common. I do try to correct my mistakes when I'm made aware of them though.

It drives me crazy when people do strange things verbally as well. Misprounciations of very simple words drive me CRAZY!! Adding extra syllables, taking important syllables away... beyond the "country accent" thing that is acceptable to me, like Madea saying "hellerrrr" for "hello" and things like that.

I know of one lady who was talking about a wreck on the interstate highway and said "He went plumb over the medium and up the exhibit!" (as opposed to median and exit). It was a bad accident yet I couldn't stop laughing at her blatant ignorance

So much to cover....

I was just reading another thread confusing "copyright" and "copywriting." I don't know why that one's so hard, but I see it all over the place. If you "copywrite" intellectual property, then what are you called when you write copy for, say, a company newsletter? Anybody?

You'd think it would be pretty obvious that if you're dealing with the intellectual "rights" to something subject to "copying," the word would be "copyright." Certainly, given that the language contains the separate concepts of "copyrighting" and "copywriting," by what logic would something covered under copyright be "copy written" rather than "copyrighted"?

That's one of those I can't make any sense of....

Originally posted by Ex_CT2
So much to cover....

I was just reading another thread confusing "copyright" and "copywriting." I don't know why that one's so hard, but I see it all over the place. If you "copywrite" intellectual property, then what are you called when you write copy for, say, a company newsletter? Anybody?

You'd think it would be pretty obvious that if you're dealing with the intellectual "rights" to something subject to "copying," the word would be "copyright." Certainly, given that the language contains the separate concepts of "copyrighting" and "copywriting," by what logic would something covered under copyright be "copy written" rather than "copyrighted"?

That's one of those I can't make any sense of....

edit on 7/8/2012 by Ex_CT2 because: (no reason given)

If you copywrite something that's copyrighted then you are a plagarist!

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by Ex_CT2
So much to cover....

I was just reading another thread confusing "copyright" and "copywriting." I don't know why that one's so hard, but I see it all over the place. If you "copywrite" intellectual property, then what are you called when you write copy for, say, a company newsletter? Anybody?

You'd think it would be pretty obvious that if you're dealing with the intellectual "rights" to something subject to "copying," the word would be "copyright." Certainly, given that the language contains the separate concepts of "copyrighting" and "copywriting," by what logic would something covered under copyright be "copy written" rather than "copyrighted"?

That's one of those I can't make any sense of....

edit on 7/8/2012 by Ex_CT2 because: (no reason given)

If you copywrite something that's copyrighted then you are a plagarist!

Thanks for clarification, PC.

You know, now that I think about all this anew, the English language is excruciatingly difficult sometimes. It's technically almost overwhelming. You can't really expect everyone to be even modestly proficient with it. I remember as a kid in school how exasperated most people were with trying to understand the distinction between "its" and "it's"--and how can you blame them? And even if "there," "their," and "they're" are perfectly clear and second nature to some of us, you have to admit they're seriously infuriating to most people.

For the most part I'm inclined to let people off the hook. And I do. I overlook and overlook... until one day I just really must say something. I'd turn in my badge.... but nobody else wants it!

Whillikers! I didn't expect this much response.

Although the experiment isn't really about grammar issues, I guess the thread is getting that way.

As far as good grammar goes, I think using proper grammar is simply a sign of respect for the reader. It shows that you assume them to be intelligent enough to understand you, and that you care enough about them to make the effort to communicate clearly.

Of course, there are a plethora of reasons for poor grammer. Lack of education, lack of exposure, second (or third) language, etc. Whatever the reason, I would think that when one stumbles upon a proper usage, one would almost automatically start using it. Why would you contunue to do something wrong, no matter how trivial, when you had been shown the right way? Dyslexia notwithstanding.

I don't trip over people's grammer, though. In this age of text speak, advertising overdose (ever notice how much crap is named with a misspelled word?), and indifferent education, I would expect nothing less than an eroding of the language.

Which brings up another point. Language is not a static thing. It is constantly expanding, changing, evolving. You don't hear a lot of folks saying things like "forsooth" or "odds bodkins" any more, or even "23 skidoo". It's hard to affix definitive rules to such an everchanging beast, so there's really not much point in getting worked up about it.

Regardless, the experiment goes on. I'm ticking my little checklist while I read here, and when I get a large enough sample set, I'll figure out if there's any difference in the amount of "must of's", and post it up.

Of course, even if there is a difference, it doesn't mean that this experiment was the cause, as my sampling is probably way too small a slice of the whole to draw any real conclusions. (Boy, I hope I used the right "too" there )

Thanks for replying, y'all!

Carry on.

English is a tough language to master (even for native speakers), but at least it is very flexible. One can still decipher the meaning of a sentence even when very poor spelling and grammar are used. I don't find either to be particularly bothersome, but I can understand the frustration of others at times. The only individual I am very critical of is myself. I tend to read over my sentences repeatedly to make sure they are cohesive and provide clarity.

I hate to give you the news, but people in general DO get dumber and dumber.
I personally noticed a big increase of ignorance and stupidity, especially in the last one or two decades. It affects everything, politics, society, meda...

(I wonder furthermore whether it's simply a false impression i have, simply because in our time its easier to faster see/realize the ignorance and stupidity of people...in times of internet, facebook etc...NEVERTHELESS, i stand by my claim that people are rapidly getting more and more stupid)

Sidenote: Using "should of" etc.....it literally HURTS to read, and it's embarrassing to say (for them, not for me ) i am not even a native English speaker. I feel sorry for a society where (obviously) a huge chunk of their own people cannot even write and spell their own fricking language. I would normally not be bothered by such things...but truth is that many discussions here in some way call for a a certain "intellectual capability" ....so don't try to "sell" me your interesting conspiracy theory or truth about aliens or UFOs etc, if you cannot even spell. Because you show ZERO credibility and look like a retard and you don't even know it.

reply to post by flexy123


I would be careful about setting your standards too high, as a non-native speaker of English, even if you are reading content within an intellectual context. English can be made very challenging to comprehend if the individual writing wishes to do so. This is why I always laugh when I hear non-native speakers claim that English is a basic language.

reply to post by subject x


Yeah, I always spelled a particular word as perogative until somebody pointed out it was prerogative and showed me it was a common mistake. I spell it correctly now due to that.

I guess you're looking at whether we accept the knowledge and put it to use or just ignore it and keep doing what we've always done.

Originally posted by Ex_CT2

Originally posted by PurpleChiten


If you copywrite something that's copyrighted then you are a plagarist!

Thanks for clarification, PC.

You know, now that I think about all this anew, the English language is excruciatingly difficult sometimes. It's technically almost overwhelming. You can't really expect everyone to be even modestly proficient with it. I remember as a kid in school how exasperated most people were with trying to understand the distinction between "its" and "it's"--and how can you blame them? And even if "there," "their," and "they're" are perfectly clear and second nature to some of us, you have to admit they're seriously infuriating to most people.

For the most part I'm inclined to let people off the hook. And I do. I overlook and overlook... until one day I just really must say something. I'd turn in my badge.... but nobody else wants it!

Of course if you copywrite something that's copyrighted but are sure to cite the source or the site of the source, then plagiarism isn't an issue

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
I guess you're looking at whether we accept the knowledge and put it to use or just ignore it and keep doing what we've always done.

Bingo. That's it exactly. For a site that is dedicated to denying ignorance, we should be able to expect a rather dramatic change, no?

Unless, of course, it's all just more talk...

Whlie ym ealrie rpely stnads ni rgeard ot garmmar, I od rceall seieng na epxerimnet preforemd ni a ocllege calss regardnig isuses fo wirtten lganuage. I cnanot rceall hte eaxct ntaure fo hte pargaraph; hwoever, aech wrod aws pruposefluly mispseleld. Hte mravelous thngi aws hte apragarph aws uqite elgible nad aesy ot nuderstand.

The problem is not about making mistakes from time to time. First of all, it happens to everybody, even the best ever master of a language. Secondly, even if sometimes you didn't mean to write something, there's just what happens to be "typo", the keyboard key that skipped or was doubled, etc.

My mother language is not English. It is French. (and to those who start about it, yes I take some well-placed pride in mastering the languages I speak and write)

The problem is about people who suck so bad at writing that getting their point is a challenge. Whatever language is their mother language. I reckon that some mistakes are so obvious that people recurrently doing them must either be terribly illiterate, amazingly lazy, or simply provocative. How could someone ever write "there" instead of "their" or "they're" ? It is lazy or stupid, sorry. Change it to "here" and the sentence doesn't mean anything anymore. Or as another example, "here" and "hear". Or "your" and "you're".

"I'm waiting to there from you."
"Uh ?"
"Oh, I'm waiting to hear from you. Sorry. Well it's the same no?"

"Here on here way."
"Uh ?"
"Oh, they're on their way. Sorry. Well it's the same no?"

See how stupid this can be?

The next thing is: punctuation. Have you ever tried to read a block of 40 lines without a single comma, period or anything like that? It is impossible. Yet some people persist in writing huge sentences without any sort of punctuation, particularly in English, and it makes it incredibly difficult to follow. The other common mistake is to add punctuation where it is unneeded.

People who can't write properly are people who can't understand properly what they read.

Some years ago, I found somewhere on the internet this fantastic "How to write gooder" guide I can't remember where, but saved it to my computer. Here are then the awesome recommendations of it:

• Avoid "overuse" "of" "quotation marks" !
• Also too, never, ever, ever be redundantly repetitive; basically don't use more words than are essentially necessary; it's highly superfluous.
• Also, always avoid all awkward and affected alliteration.
• Always pick on the correct idiom.
• Analogies in writing are like feathers on a snake.
• And don't start a sentence with a conjunction.
• Avoid clichés like the plague, they're old hat.
• Avoid trendy locutions that sound flaky.
• Avoid using sesquipedalian words.
• Be carefully to use adjectives and adverbs correct.
• Be more or less specific.
• Bee careful two use the write homonym.
• Comparisons are as bad as clichés.
• Contractions aren't necessary and shouldn't be used.
• Corect speling is esential.
• Do not put statements in the negative form.
• DO NOT use exclamation points and all caps to emphasize !!!!!!!
• Don't never use no double negatives.
• Eliminate commas, that are, not necessary, parenthetical.
• Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc.
• Everyone should be careful to use a singular pronoun with singular nouns in their writing.
• Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.
• Foreign words and phrases are not apropos.
• Hunt High and Low and Go around the barn at high noon to avoid colloquialisms.
• Hyphenate between sy-llables and avoid un-necessary hyphens.
• If any word is improper at the end of a sentence, a linking verb is.
• If you've heard it once, you've heard it a thousand times: Resist hyperbole; not one writer in a million can use it correctly.
• It is wrong to ever split an infinitive.
• Never use a big word when a diminutive one would suffice.
• No sentence fragments.
• One should NEVER generalize.
• One-word sentences? Eliminate.
• Only Proper Nouns should be capitalized.
• Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are (usually) unnecessary.
• Perform a functional iterative analysis on your work to root out third generation transitional buzzwords.
• Place pronouns as close as possible, especially in long sentences of 10 or more words, to their antecedents.
• Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.
• Profanity is for assholes; it makes writing crappy.
• Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
• Puns are for children, not groan readers.
• Take the bull by the hand and avoid mixing metaphors.
• The adverb always follows the verb.
• The passive voice should never be used.
• Understatement is always the absolute best way to put forth earth shaking ideas.
• Use hyphens in compound-words, not just where two-words are related.
• Use the apostrophe in it's proper place and omit it when its not needed.
• Use words correctly, irregardless of how others use them.
• Verbs has to agree with their subjects.
• Who needs rhetorical questions?
• Words however should be enclosed in commas.
• Writing carefully, dangling participles must be avoided.

To conclude very simply: read again what you have written. Give it time. You'll improve naturally.

Originally posted by totallackey
Whlie ym ealrie rpely stnads ni rgeard ot garmmar, I od rceall seieng na epxerimnet preforemd ni a ocllege calss regardnig isuses fo wirtten lganuage. I cnanot rceall hte eaxct ntaure fo hte pargaraph; hwoever, aech wrod aws pruposefluly mispseleld. Hte mravelous thngi aws hte apragarph aws uqite elgible nad aesy ot nuderstand.

edit on 9-7-2012 by totallackey because: misspelling

(emphase by me)


What you say there is true, except that you are going too far in mixing. This works by mixing letters within the word only, not the 1st and not the last letter of the word.

Also, it only works fine if the word would be spelled correctly. Mixing an incorrectly spelled word becomes increasingly difficult to recognise the right one...!

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.

Now why couldn't you put that lovely little piece of work in my thread?

were you sceeered ?

(would have been puuurfect)

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.

Now why couldn't you put that lovely little piece of work in my thread?

were you sceeered ?

(would have been puuurfect)

I just remembered it and had to go find it!

taaaanks..just in time before it plunged to the underworld..like the Zepplin .

whew