Is Lucifer our Friend?

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posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by votan
 


I agree with you, it is a problem with perspective, but that isn't how most religions look at it. They give Satan dominion over hell, where men go to eternal damnation if they don't learn to behave well. Would you send your beagle to eternal damnation if it didn't behave well? OR would you just put it outside for awhile, and take some precautions to keep your things out of its reach?

The whole fire, and hell, and damnation, and evil Satan just don't make any sense to me. If there is a God, then all that other stuff is ridiculous to imagine. Why would anyone face an ETERNITY of heaven or hell based upon a short blink of an eye existence wrought with challenges here on Earth? It just doesn't make a lick of sense, and therefore it cannot be true.




posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by dreamdragon
luicefer isnt are friend n if he truly wanted to go back to god then god would forgive him maybe n let him back so what you say isnt right if he did go back to god then there would be no more sin.


I've said before, I don't really believe in a competitor for God, BUT.....

If Lucifer is cast out, because he stood up for mankind, and he is here with us, because of his beliefs and anti-authority nature, then why would he want to ask for forgiveness and return to the very place he disagrees with?

If Lucifer is real, and if the story of him is true, and if he is here among us because of his views, then he would be a friend to mankind, and he wouldn't want to return.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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I see nothing unusual here...





posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 09:42 AM
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The NWO serves the NWO. Plain and simple agents of global tyranny and slavery. Their motivation, no matter what pomp and circumstance they indulge in, is about keeping their family line in power and wealth throughout the ages. IMO, they are all in truth atheists.

The concept of Lucifer would have nothing to do with enslaving mankind. The concept of bringing light to mankind is that of helping man receive wisdom, take charge and be free from the chains. None of the Lucifer concepts (story constructs) fit into NWO agendas.

Though, it is fun for everyone to have a boogeyman... we all have to blame some arch-villain.

This coming from the concept I see of Lucifer being the yin force connected to the Jesus yang force in the Zen Yin-Yang symbol. As a concept of energy (not living overlords), both must exist for life.

As a living deity, we all need Jesus.
edit on 10-7-2012 by twoandthree because: edit



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by steve1709
reply to post by robhines
 


Well what if the translations and interpretations of the Sumarian texts describing entities such as Enki and Enlil were true? That would mean that Enki was the devil (or lucifer) in the garden of "e den" when he helped mankind gain "knowledge" Then Enki was god when he let it slip to Ziusudra (Noah) [sorry about any spelling mistakes of names] But, Enki was lucifer but he was god but he was lucifer, sheesh, I guess it means that either lucifer was god who had a serious problem of multiple personalities or .... ??? So, IF lucifer was the good guy, then I reckon I would have to agree and be quite happy that finally people are seeing the light of day, because after reading how Enki was actually the one that was trying to help mankind to survive (especially after HE was the one to start the ball of humanity rolling in the first place) and his brother Enlil was the one who wanted to wipe us out (as god did with the flood story). I can see why godists wouldn't want to link biblical stuff to Sumerian mythology given the poor light that god is shown in.



The gods of all our religions are well rooted in Sumerian mythology. The offshoots of which have held higher favor and more deplorable standings depending on how each tribe and civilization related to them. (Sometimes the Lucifer character was respected, others vilified.) Whatever the issues of religion are, the roots ALL go back to ancient Sumeria. It's where the first Ten Commandments were given, along with the first virgin birth and resurrection... and not to forget about the importance of baptisms, twelve, three, and ascending to heaven. The Truth sets us free.

I don't know if the Sumerian gods were fantastic legendary stories that formed mythology, were actual benefactor aliens, or demons trying to steal Jesus' mythology some 2,000 to 3,000 years before Jesus came to Earth as the Son of God. Regardless, Sumeria holds the secrets to the truth.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 10:00 AM
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I think LIGHT* may of learned ( that's if its the one and not natas ) that the most HIGHEST the CREATORs KINGDOM IS and WILL always be the best. Imagine when the fall occurred then consider this, what if this ENTIRE UNIVERSE WAS THE assessed new KINGDOM realm LOCATION OUTSIDE OF HEAVEN. Further some of the 1/3 who FELL with NATAS may of wanted to do GOOD??? yes I know good outside of HEAVEN
But NATAS had intentions of USING those who fell, as pawns in its KINGDOM. All why tricking them with fake truths that they the 1/3 would of been given a chance to build their own kingdoms (SPAWNS also or creations from the fallens to RULE OVER) So you got these angels 1 @ the head NATAS tricking other less mature ANGELS 2nd in COMMAND LUX ZA FA or LUCIFER included. And LUCIFER begans to SEE the ignorance and begins to REBEL AGAINST THIS KINGDOM of FLAW/dark outside the LIGHT of HEAVEN. LUCIFER REQUEST/ASK some of the 1/3 fallen and they GO AND SPAWN THEIR OWN LIGHTS* or HEAVEN PROXIES to eventually SUPPORT their KINGS/QUEENS against NATAS DARKNESS KINGDOM - I LOVE THE PLEIADES
They SPAWN and BUILD (fms) of EA* to support HEAVENS GOALS after recognizing NATAS HELLISH intents SMH and MAY be awaiting the remaining 2/3 supports before the REAL WAR can BEGAN
between NATAS MINIONS/SPAWNS and LUCIFER'S & 1/3 who went with LIGHT* MINIONS & their SPAWNS. (WHERE DO HUMAN SOULS FIT-CHOSE A SIDE) HELL SPAWN WAS A GOOD MOVIE lol
SO in the END LUCIFER & OTHER 1/3 REPENT and show LOVE/RESPECT to HEAVEN and the CREATOR of ALL* (THEM as well) by taking to WAR the ANGELS WHO DECEIVED.

NAMASTE
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by twoandthree
 


But many of Christianity's legends come from faiths that predate Sumeria...

And while there isn't exactly a lot of EVIDENCE in this particular find, I believe there may be some strange congruencies (not to mention a very strange but reasonable logic) in this link:

Exposing The Old Testament



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by votan
 


I agree with you, it is a problem with perspective, but that isn't how most religions look at it. They give Satan dominion over hell, where men go to eternal damnation if they don't learn to behave well. Would you send your beagle to eternal damnation if it didn't behave well? OR would you just put it outside for awhile, and take some precautions to keep your things out of its reach?

The whole fire, and hell, and damnation, and evil Satan just don't make any sense to me. If there is a God, then all that other stuff is ridiculous to imagine. Why would anyone face an ETERNITY of heaven or hell based upon a short blink of an eye existence wrought with challenges here on Earth? It just doesn't make a lick of sense, and therefore it cannot be true.


The threat of eternal damnation is one given by churches to motivate people by fear to believe in God and more importantly to attend church and listen to the pastor. Damned to "hell" is not permanent and since our perspective of time is a blink of an eye then going to hell will be about as bad as putting my dog in his kennel with no toy for a couple hours. .

sins are said to dam you to hell when in reality certain sins we commit which are spoken out against by God like fornication adultery stealing murder.. are talked about because they affect our life here on earth. Fornication leads to stds which can cause death. You also have a messed up state of being since your personal life gets so complicated. Adultery can lead to your death if you have a jealous spouse or you can kill a spouse to be with someone. that is detrimental to your life and to others.. These sins can lead to your death and keep you from finding God because you are too busy doing these things.

These sins do not in themselves send you to hell. Not finding God does and rejecting God does. Not so much because these things are bad but because you do not find God. if you reject God and still live a good life you are still said to go to hell because you side with the devil instead of God. The devils whole purpose is to lead rebellion against God and away from God.

I believe in God and accept him. That does not make me a holier than though kind of person. It also does not keep me from sinning because due to our initial sin we are fallen by nature we even caused the introduction of death by listening to the lie we still believe in that we can be as gods. Most of our history is littered with people striving to become gods by forming the world as they see fit with war and genocide. That is pretty much the source of all the bullcrap today. And most beliefs and ideologies have been hijacked by this lie in pursuit of that lie.

Which is why there is such a bad attitude towards religion or any belief in a "god".

Even though i do believe in God, I can still rip the concept of GOd and religion to shreds. I am also open to any alternative discussions and deny ignorance. In the end belief in God lies in faith as does any belief in anything for anyone.




edit on 10-7-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


There's a reason that Jesus said that all that ever came before him were thieves and robbers.

John 10:8

8) All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

Here's where Satan fails:


"True Satanism is about elevating and empowering humanity to reach equality with the Gods, which was our True Creator (Satan's) intention"


So, obviously, something greater than Satan and all the gods kept this from happening. Who was that?


"The original religions now known as "Satanism" (by the way, "Satan" means "enemy" in Hebrew), were all based upon what is known as the "Magnum Opus" or Great Work. The one known as "Satan" is our True Creator God. He was prevented by the other Gods from finishing his work on humanity, that of the godhead. The godhead is physical and spiritual perfection. Now, if you continue to read on, I will prove this."


What? Satan doesn't even have power over the other gods? The godhead is made up of physical and spiritual perfection? Who decides what physical and spiritual perfection are?


"The stolen accounts in the Judeo-Christian Bible of humans living for hundreds of years or more were taken from the objective of the Magnum Opus. This is where all so-called "witchcraft" leads to- alchemy of the soul. This is the highest and most profound working of the human mind, that of accomplishing the godhead of which is our birthright given to us from our Creator Satan."


So, Satan is trying to take credit for humans having lived much longer in ancient times, but he doesn't claim to give us eternal life? Why not?


"Human sexuality has always been severely regulated and frowned upon by the Christian Church. This is because sexuality and orgasm as the life force are essential to spiritual advancement and the raising of the kundalini serpent."


What good is spiritual advancement if you die of a heart attack while having sex? Actually, what good is spiritual advancement if you die, period?

satanslibrary.webs.com...

If I've overlooked Satan claiming to have the power to provide eternal life, can someone please point the way?

It's hard for me to believe that he has this ability if he doesn't even have power over the other gods.

Thank you.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Thanks for the link. I will evaluate it when I get a moment to digest it critically while researching and testing it.

I had stopped at Sumeria because there is hard cold proof of what their culture was like and what the believed, along with the remaining religious texts. In other words, what we have is incredibly reliable. So far, I've seen things that pre-date ancient Sumeria to be less verifiable, but I'm open to taking a peek behind that door to see what there is. Definitely interesting!

Also note that I consider the ancient Sumeria with Enki, Enlil, and the whole pantheon to be of dated much more ancient than the Pharaoh Amen-em-opet... It was my analysis that Amen borrowed from the Sumerians as a source material. But I haven't even dug into that web page yet. Just wanted to indicate that I believe Enki, Enlil, and company to date back to around 3,000 B.C.
edit on 10-7-2012 by twoandthree because: Amen-em-opet


Additionally, I consider it plausible that if a Great Satan exists, he would know the symbols, numbers, and stories that mean the most to the Creator... and thus, would try to pre-empt the Messiah by wearing out those elements. That is IF a Great Adversary exists; after all, most Jewish people do not believe there is a Satan and much less a Hell. That seems like a more wise way to go through life and to embrace Jehovah by choice of love instead of a fear of eternal damnation in hell. The Bible passages on Satan and Hell are, IMO, questionable and were likely ways to rally congregations together around a solid fear. There is a huge place for Jesus's salvation even without the existence of a Satan or a hell.
edit on 10-7-2012 by twoandthree because: edit


In review of the linked webpage... I can say there are some relevant references... but it is way too grossly simplified. Someone clearly wants to glorify Amen-em-opet more than provide an accurate traceable linkage to each one (which often requires showing a long-line of delineations and alternate uses throughout culture and mythos). I don't consider that page to be anything but a trigger idea for people to realize that there is more than meets the eye to what we've been traditionally taught. For those willing to learn, it may instill a thirst to study the roots of things instead of taking everything at face value. The New Testament orders believers to test and question everything, despite what a lot of churches teach!

The linked webpage certainly offers no attempt at academic scholarship. But everything has its place and thank you for the share.
edit on 10-7-2012 by twoandthree because: After viewing page notes



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by Six6Six
reply to post by robhines
 


Lucifer is the ONLY one of the gods and devils that protected humans from day one.


It was god that lied to the masses much like the US government does today and preached how bad Lucifer is.

Infact he is the holy one the good one. You people who worship your gods, the world is the way it is because you people believe in drivel that causes greed and destruction. Nuff said....small people!


So how exactly did the devil protect humans from day one?? was it by telling humans they can be as God if they disobey him?? you mean become the type of "gods" that live like we do today?? at each others throat constantly trying to reach the lie given by the devil in the first place... that we can be like gods??

edit on 10-7-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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Lucifer does translate as Lux :light, and Ferre: to carry. The bringer of Light. Lets also keep in mind that Lucifer (En.ki) told the truth in the Garden of Eden. Yahweh (En.lil) was the liar.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


Please understand the context of a "thief and a robber" is talking about false teachers and sheppards. Just wanted to point that tidbit out. Carry on.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by Oannes
Lucifer does translate as Lux :light, and Ferre: to carry. The bringer of Light. Lets also keep in mind that Lucifer (En.ki) told the truth in the Garden of Eden. Yahweh (En.lil) was the liar.


And there's the rub! You nailed the most relevant point here.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by Oannes
Lucifer does translate as Lux :light, and Ferre: to carry. The bringer of Light. Lets also keep in mind that Lucifer (En.ki) told the truth in the Garden of Eden. Yahweh (En.lil) was the liar.


Please understand that his Hebrew name as recorded in the text of Isaiah is "Heylel" which means "crescent moon". Lucifer is a terrible Latin translation. For one the moon isnt a star and for two the significant thing about the moon is that it has no capacity to produce it's own light. It must reflect or "bear" the light of the sun. Heylel aka Lucifer should be translated as "light BEARER" not "bringer". Dont let a horrendous Latin translation rule the day.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined

If I've overlooked Satan claiming to have the power to provide eternal life, can someone please point the way?

It's hard for me to believe that he has this ability if he doesn't even have power over the other gods.

Thank you.


I dont think the has the ability, hence the need to FEED off of CREATOR CREATIONS eternal LIGHTS* SOUL/SPIRIT/INTERNAL ENERGIES to MAINTAIN EVERLASTING LIFE. Energies LIGHT* found within humans and ET, for some ET get treated worst then humans of EA*RTH possibly. That is a SIGN Of CREATOR and CREATED..
edit on 7/10/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Deetermined
 


Please understand the context of a "thief and a robber" is talking about false teachers and sheppards. Just wanted to point that tidbit out. Carry on.


Yes, but you have to notice where he said "All that ever came before me" were the thieves and robbers.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Oannes
Lucifer does translate as Lux :light, and Ferre: to carry. The bringer of Light. Lets also keep in mind that Lucifer (En.ki) told the truth in the Garden of Eden. Yahweh (En.lil) was the liar.


Lucifer lost his title of being the bringer of light when he was kicked out of heaven.

Yes, he did lie, because Adam and Eve did indeed die a human death. He was never talking about a spiritual death.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Deetermined
 


Please understand the context of a "thief and a robber" is talking about false teachers and sheppards. Just wanted to point that tidbit out. Carry on.


Yes, but you have to notice where he said "All that ever came before me" were the thieves and robbers.


But back it up to verse 1. The context is ALL those who came to the sheep via illegitimate means. Not as in ALL sheppards/teachers before Him. He sent the prophets to the sheep.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by Oannes
Lucifer does translate as Lux :light, and Ferre: to carry. The bringer of Light. Lets also keep in mind that Lucifer (En.ki) told the truth in the Garden of Eden. Yahweh (En.lil) was the liar.


Technically, Yahweh never lied. He simply stated that should they were not to eat the fruit. When they did, the natural course of consequence (for reasons unknown, unsurprisingly) was their expulsion from the Garden of Eden. Let's say that the hatchlings were kicked out of the nest so they could explore and become productive members of a new society...





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