Is Lucifer our Friend?

reply to post by Deetermined

I'm surprised that people are still referring to Lucifer as "the bringer of light" and "morning star". Lucifer lost those titles when he corrupted man in the Garden of Eden and led all of the nations astray when he was the Guardian Cherub.

Lucifer was never the bright and morning star, Yeshua is and always has been.

Revelation 22:16

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Well it's been an interesting thread... Genuinely sorry to any of you that got offended, I just see the world at the moment being so unbelievably backwards that I had to question the idea, also that I do have to question everything I can and see where that leads to.

At the end of the day I know one thing, and that's that consciously, I don't know a thing. We all have what's called in some schools of Buddhism relative knowledge. Knowledge of how this consensual reality works and how to go about living in it, and so on, but there's another level of knowledge which is classed as ultimate or perfect knowledge, and I don't think hardly any of us have any of it really.

So you could liken it to Plato's Cave. We know quite a bit about the shadows on the wall, but not about what's creating those shadows and what's going on in that other, truer level of reality.

Again though, I don't believe this is the case. It was just an idea. One thing I've always liked since I first got into this is when someone creates a crazy theory that makes you think, because sometimes little parts of that theory can be right and better ideas can be made from them. Or that it just makes you think in a new way and allows you to think outside the box more in other situations, and so on.

Still though, wasn't expecting many Christians to even respond, nor was I expecting the thread to end up here, (I posted in General Conspiracies then it got moved.) nor was I expecting anything other than maybe 10-20 responses I don't think. So thanks again for all the replies, it's been interesting, but I'll have to stick with meditating, not placing my belief in anything, (other than that we're all equal, can't really shake that one off, sorry!) and just stick with these words from one of my own teachers :

"Don't believe in anything simply because you heard it.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
But if after observation and analysis, you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept and live up to it."

— Shakyamuni Buddha

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Lies. They were both referred to using the same title. Shall I Google it for you?

reply to post by flashtrum


Religion is the art of taming and defining that which cannot be expressed by human beings. There's where you run into your problem.

And because of our control issues, we immediately use spirituality as an opportunity to ensure our own survival, even in matters that have nothing to do with spirit. Why? Because we can. And we want to.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Lies. They were both referred to using the same title. Shall I Google it for you?

Lucifer was never the bright and morning star. He might have pretended to be but he was not the light of the world.

reply to post by robhines


Lucifer is the ONLY one of the gods and devils that protected humans from day one.


It was god that lied to the masses much like the US government does today and preached how bad Lucifer is.

Infact he is the holy one the good one. You people who worship your gods, the world is the way it is because you people believe in drivel that causes greed and destruction. Nuff said....small people!

reply to post by Six6Six


I really need you to explain your reply.

What have you been reading?

reply to post by Catalyst317


Loved that.
Hilarious

Ya....I now worship my neighbors possessed dog.....

Salvations kinda slow right now but he says thing will pick up real soon.

Jesus and Satan are not one in the same, it says in the Bible,

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:17
Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

While I don't buy into the whole 'God and Devil' thing, over the years, i've had less and less to say about the 'Great Mystery' simply because i've become more and more aware of how I am a pre-schooler when compared to just the possibilities alone of 'What Is'. For example, it wouldn't look good making big claimes when I can barely find my way out of my bedroom at night in the dark, or how on another thread I had a mental lapse on the very simple definition of duality, something I have studied for years. I'm not that great in math and I can barely operate a computer. I can't see radio waves (what else don't I see?) and I still can't figure out what Snork is all about, except that it makes me laugh because I have a gutter mind. Just those mundane examples alone put things in perspective in a big way and causes me to pause and be more cautious. Either that or it just makes me a more graceful fool, ehehe.

I tend to think that we have come here as part of our 'Work', this world has the potential of being a powerful Alchemical Lab if we are willing to embrace that potential or a powerful Prison House. Perhapes the 'Devil' whether from a non-literal perspective or what have you, can be a Tool which either helps us cultivate the 'Stone' or which can become our stumbling block in that cultivation, depending on the person. Lucifer does mean afterall 'Light-Bearer", eehee.

Maybe the idea of God and the Devil (with his minions) playing good cop and bad cop and what have you is not so far out, depending on how you look at it.

reply to post by robhines


Immature post. I am feeding a troll, I realize.

But, the bible describes astronomical events in terms of names of "beings" and "people" so that they could record their information worldwide without anyone suspecting a thing.

Most people haven't the slightest idea, and still thing 'jesus' is some physical person. Joke is on you. "oh but we have records!!"

We have records of the Zodiac too, and the Sun, and those are timeless (almost). So eat it. It all describes celestial events and some Earth history, and some barbaric items too. Just a bunch of sun worship.

Get over it. No golden roads for you.

Originally posted by ConspiracyBuff

“The Satan” mentioned in the Book of Job in the Old Testament is a rank, not an actually entity. Second the “God” of the Old Testament is NOT the same [Creator, Father] of the New Testament. The Old Testament actually is a representation of two separate deities: Adonay and Yahweh [Based off the Sumerian Enki and Enlil]. Lucifer and ‘Jesus Christ’ are related because ‘Jesus Christ’ is a Roman invention based off an interrelation of the Greek god Zeus. Emmanuel was the historical figure which ‘The Christ’ was based off of.

Well, the Romans sure must have been extremely familiar with the Hebrew scriptures in order to FULFILL the single biggest prophetic statement in scripture:
Adam - Man
Seth - Appointed
Enosh – Mortal
Kenan – Sorrow
Mahalalel – The blessed God
Jared – Shall come down
Enoch – Teaching
Methuselah – His death shall bring
Lamech – Despairing
Noah – Comfort and rest
Put those name meanings into a complete sentence and you get: Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow, (but) the blessed God shall come down teaching. His death shall bring (the) despairing comfort and rest

Religion/metaphysics (whatever) boils down to intuition and introspection. I do not care if people worship sh!t as long as it makes them want to be a better person and make the world a better place; then its all good in my books.
P.S. Emanuel’s message was of forgiveness and acceptance as these are the fundamental principals of our conception of ‘love.’ Everything else is false

Love does not equal acceptance/tolerance in scripture, because is it opposite to God. Tolerance allows evil behaviours to rise within a society. Tolerance states that you MUST accept every sort of behaviour, whether good or bad, and therefore it is not a demonstration of love. Love protects, love nurtures and love forgives. This version of love that the world has defined states that the tolerance and acceptance of abortion, for example, is to be considered love. How is it love when not only has the woman has become a murderer, but a baby has been torn limb from limb? Your definition of love states that acceptance = love, but how is it love to accept evil life killing behaviours? It's not. What is going to grow from this whacked out definition of love is humanity continually doing evil things thinking that they love the whole time. Love that is defined as acceptance is a straight path to the end of the age. Look around and see what this crazy definition has gotten us already in society - nothing but misery for millions. Acceptance of evil leads to death. Acceptance of good leads to life. Scripture portends that the end is brought about once evil is relabelled as 'good' and good is relabelled as 'evil'. Previously wicked behaviours that lead to death and misery become acceptable, and previously good behaviours are deemed intolerant and bigoted. People today FIGHT for the right to kill babies legally, FIGHT for drugs to be legalised, FIGHT for the right to have sexual practices to be the basis of marriage, and FIGHT for things that only lead to death and misery. Why? Because they ignore the fruits of such behaviours! They ignore the millions of deaths and ruined families because the love of sin is too great in them to give a damn about the consequences. That is the reality of believing that love=acceptance.

Humanity has been punched, kicked, spit on and run over throughout our history by these same tyrants. And what happens? The tyrants always lose and the cycle continues. People will not wake up until they're backed into a corner and the tyrants never know when enough is enough. The problem is, neither the people nor the tyrant has enough common sense to read a history book and understand how this works. The fact is, we can build all the advanced technology in the world, but until the day we stop the blood shed and put the bed time stories down, we will never be nothing more than a bunch of dumb animals.

reply to post by getreadyalready


You are not limiting God by having the devil. how do you come up with that

reply to post by votan


If God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and timeless as those first two would indicate, then there is no room for a devil. The very notion of omnipotent means nothing happens without god's will. If there is a devil, it is an intentional creation by God, that operates under God's authority, and with God's full knowledge, and therefore it cannot possibly be evil, because it is Godly.

The notion of omnipotence means everything that happens is God's will, and if it is God's will how can it be evil?

If someone leaves room for a competitor to God, then they are negating God's omnipotence.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Why is the devil supposed to be evil ?? Maybe evil towards us... but technically the devil cannot do anything against God other than mess with his other creations. So really he is not competition for God but competition for us to reach God.

while the devil can look evil to us the devil may serve a purpose for God. Then we fall into the whole God is a jackass for coming up with such a system. And that in itself destroys him being omnipotent or good from our perspective. What about from Gods perspective considering he knows how it all works. There are things when I was a child and even now as an adult that i do not completely understand that i think are complete bs. Some i still dont' understand and others I have come to understand.. but at a certain point in time I was hell bent on believing i was right in it being bs without being able to see the full picture.


I agree that from our perspective and understanding you can view it that way but we are looking at things from a very limited point of view.

If we want to just view it from our perspective I see your point. Also There are many people around us that we have complete power over where we can snuff out their existence but just because we let them exist along side of us and argue with them all the time does not change the fact we can crush them at any moment. I can crush my beagle anytime I want especially since he is always chewing up my things... but I don't ... does that give me any less authority over the dog??

Its just wild to see how some view the 1 who test their spirits/internal energies the most yet you got (West Vs East) building up .
Who would it be testing/strengthening their SOULS for and would it ALSO TEST OTHER BEINGS EXISTING A S HUMANS DO AS WELL???
Would/DID the CREATOR of this 1 know (omnipotent*) when it was SENT/FELL near humans & others that it would be a SPIRIT/INTERNAL ENERGIES tester thru temptation - -ignorance - greed - power - EGO influenced force. FOR THE CREATOR COULD OF DESTROYED THIS BEING BUT DIDN'T, THE still gave it time and its 1/3rd that fell with it before a time of CASTING Into the ETERNAL FLAMES to RE ASCEND HOME* all why learning what it did wrong and teaching humans and others a sit learns also. Its a wild subject lol but I still think there was a mix of data between 2 angels if not 2 or are more (ashyitan-demigods-devils-angels-GOD) CREATOR*

reply to post by phroziac


if live is to suffer then how do you truly know what happiness is when it is right in front of you living is only suffering if you allow it to be

luicefer isnt are friend n if he truly wanted to go back to god then god would forgive him maybe n let him back so what you say isnt right if he did go back to god then there would be no more sin.