Is Lucifer our Friend?

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

What makes you think Lucifer is not the good-guy in the Bible?

Maybe you should try reading Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28 and Revelation 20.

I'm surprised that people are still referring to Lucifer as "the bringer of light" and "morning star". Lucifer lost those titles when he corrupted man in the Garden of Eden and led all of the nations astray when he was the Guardian Cherub.

It's because of Lucifer corrupting his wisdom and mankind that leads to his destruction in the end. He's the first one thrown into the lake of fire when this earth passes away and the new earth is created. Isaiah 14 even talks about every king from every nation that ever existed will rise from the grave to witness the destruction of Lucifer for having led them astray with his "knowledge".

Think about it for a moment. Do you really think that today's knowledge is more helpful than hurtful? I doubt that many of you would argue with me that "helpful knowledge" is most likely being suppressed due to greed and "hurtful knowledge" abounds. Ask yourself this question. What's more likely to happen in my lifetime? A cure for cancer or a nuclear bomb wiping out a part of the earth and creating more cancer?

So, if you follow him, you might think you're living in "knowledge" and "freedom" on earth, but it's all an illusion. True knowledge and freedom doesn't come until you enter into eternal life, where God's knowledge exists. Satan's knowledge looks all pretty and shiny for the short term with our limited human understanding of knowledge, but that's exactly what it is....short term!

reply to post by robhines


Well what if the translations and interpretations of the Sumarian texts describing entities such as Enki and Enlil were true? That would mean that Enki was the devil (or lucifer) in the garden of "e den" when he helped mankind gain "knowledge" Then Enki was god when he let it slip to Ziusudra (Noah) [sorry about any spelling mistakes of names] But, Enki was lucifer but he was god but he was lucifer, sheesh, I guess it means that either lucifer was god who had a serious problem of multiple personalities or .... ??? So, IF lucifer was the good guy, then I reckon I would have to agree and be quite happy that finally people are seeing the light of day, because after reading how Enki was actually the one that was trying to help mankind to survive (especially after HE was the one to start the ball of humanity rolling in the first place) and his brother Enlil was the one who wanted to wipe us out (as god did with the flood story). I can see why godists wouldn't want to link biblical stuff to Sumerian mythology given the poor light that god is shown in.

Look at some facts

Whatever anyone else says , biblical contacts with 'lucifer' , or 'satan' , are very few and far between .
The first being at genesis , an entity in the form of a lying snake , tempts the pair in the garden . using the woman , interesting note re recent senaca thread
The second , that i know of , is Isaiah's quote , "How art thou fallen from heaven , O Lucifer , son of the morning ?"
This to scholars is variably interpreted , with or without without need , to refer satan , and where the connotation between names has its origin.

The third , is in the gospels , where Satan meets him at the mountain top , ( Satan-variably translated by now) tempts Jesus , saying ,"If you will bow to me (or do my bidding) , then all this you see before I will make yours".
The response is , "Get thee hence , satan , for it is_ written , "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me" (I think )

The fourth is another mystical prophetic reference found in The Revelation , variably ascribed as the dragon , and interpreted as the devil , who would hunt down the mother and child of a son born by astrological timing .
Again in revelation , Satan's forces , including the beast , the world powers and the all their armies gather upon to rider upon the white horse to slay him , "but the beast was taken , and with him , the false prophet who wrought miracles before the nations" .

The quranic description of satan is where , gathered with the other angels/higher beings , and ordered to bow towards the earth as God's creation , refused the act and rebelled .

It seems he is characterised by attempts to inspire humans to commit acts which are against the will of God .
Enough in that _one fact to start with


'Leadings on' from higher realms have pervaded most religious beleifs and affirmed texts throughout the world . The origins of such are again , multifastidinous , those undergoing and witnessing by relating their experiences describe not only evil , but fear , tranquility , spiritual elevation , ecstacy , extreme comprehension or confusion , visions of the future ,etc , etc

The difference being , personal experiences are subjective and not objectively validated until properly correlated.
Thus , systems of understanding the 'higher realms' of consciousness , human or otherwise , have pervaded local cultures and eventually will agree (by removal of inserted cultural fallacies) , upon what they hold in common.

OP the belief that Christ and Lucifer are ‘related’ is from Mormonism. They also believe upon death [if righteous] they will become a ‘god’ of another world in space and create life there.

Lucifer is a metaphor for the extent of free will granted by the creator and nothing more. We [humans] decide what is evil. Many suggest the average person is suffering from PTSD. This is because of media and social propaganda. Many people know only what they are told.

“The Satan” mentioned in the Book of Job in the Old Testament is a rank, not an actually entity. Second the “God” of the Old Testament is NOT the same [Creator, Father] of the New Testament. The Old Testament actually is a representation of two separate deities: Adonay and Yahweh [Based off the Sumerian Enki and Enlil]. Lucifer and ‘Jesus Christ’ are related because ‘Jesus Christ’ is a Roman invention based off an interrelation of the Greek god Zeus. Emmanuel was the historical figure which ‘The Christ’ was based off of.

Religion/metaphysics (whatever) boils down to intuition and introspection. I do not care if people worship sh!t as long as it makes them want to be a better person and make the world a better place; then its all good in my books.

P.S. Emanuel’s message was of forgiveness and acceptance as these are the fundamental principals of our conception of ‘love.’ Everything else is false

Originally posted by robhines

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by killbot2012

 

what do you mean duality is an illusion? you dont think duality exists?

Nope, the illusion of duality is a well known eastern concept that runs through Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and others.

This might help : Nondualism - Wikipedia

Extract from that page :

Loy (1988: p. 3) contrasts his view of the historicity of nonduality in some of its evocations in the experience of the peoples of The East and The West as follows:

"...[the seed of nonduality] however often sown, has never found fertile soil [in the West], because it has been too antithetical to those other vigorous sprouts that have grown into modern science and technology. In the Eastern tradition...we encounter a different situation. There the seeds of seer-seen nonduality not only sprouted but matured into a variety (some might say a jungle) of impressive philosophical species. By no means do all these [Eastern] systems assert the nonduality of subject and object, but it is significant that three which do – Buddhism, Vedanta and Taoism – have probably been the most influential."

edit on 9-7-2012 by robhines because: added

so hot and cold,, black and white,,, girl and boy,,, something and nothing,,, positive and negative,.,.good and evil,,,,, big and small,..,.,,,.ying yang non of these concepts exist in reality?

IF he existed, which I am of the opinion he doesn't.

He would have to be our friend I would think.

God created us, and him. He made a 'tree of knowledge' and then forbade our consuming of it. The Devil tempted us to, which granted us access to knowledge. At which point, God kicked us out of Eden.

If anything, he liberated us from a dictatorship.

Again, IF you believe he existed/exists, which I do not.

reply to post by robhines


In my opinion lucifer would be on our side. I dont know much about the bible but pretty sure he was banished for tempting adam and eve with the tree of knowledge or something like that? Im not atheist i just love scrunitising beliefs and what people call "fact" if there is any fact at the root of christianity and god is all knowing and all loving, why would he want us to stay away from the tree of knowledge? I think if god was ever a physical being then there
must be others. Obviously they dont all get along. They each have their followers and and want their followers to think they are the one true god. Much like north korea actually haha intergalactic dictators?
Which is why im sure lucifer would want to set us free from our god and teach us the secrets of the universe.
I mean, "the lord is our shepard" jesus is the lamb of god, or depicted as a shepard. Do you really want to be part of the flock? And as for lucifer working with the NWO... Pretty sure theyre all heavily religious characters and religion, or at least our perception on religion is probably the worst thing to ever happen to mankind. Just a thought

OP I think it depends on UNDERSTANDING WHO LUX ZA VA AND NATAS ARE IN RELATION TO THE SON. And what parts are played & who is under whos command ect. For 1 of the mentioned Angels may work for a HIGHER CAUSE supporting the SON. Why the other may play as a executionare

?? is DO they EAch have FLEETS/supports/demigods ect. And if so how do you tell whos who? With SO many lies being told and fabricated here its a ruff call as to whats going on, but something does not seem right about THE BRIGHTEST LIGHT BEING LABELED THE DARKEST why the darkest convinces many the does not even exist.

Originally posted by SpearMint
What if everything you just mentioned didn't exist and were merely creations of men?

HU-MAN created by snakes,,,but yes...there is no such thing as lucifer satan or god as they taught you and programmed into your DnA.

control through fear guilt shame which causes the hatred envy jealousy which keeps you obedient or vengeful and separated .

psycho-spiritual math i call it.

reply to post by Deetermined


Lucifer? See the 4th Fatima Prophecy if you want to know who he really is/was.

reply to post by PeaNice



I can just cut the chase and tell ya... Lucifer is a terrible translation into the Latin of the Hebrew name "Heylel". But I kinda like the mistranslation and I call him "Lucy" for short.

Originally posted by robhines

Originally posted by greyer
reply to post by robhines

 

I site dedicated to intelligence so much how can you be so ignorant? I'm surprised this isn't deleted and never seen again by now my friend. And if you are lucifer, heck no you aren't my friend, why would you be? How could you be?

I LOVE.

And I know it's wrong to see Lucifer and Jesus as the same thing in essence, but I don't follow duality either, sorry. Lucifer and Jesus are just two beings of the same nature that decided to go different paths the way I see it. The difference to me is in what they do, not what they are.

You don't see duality on earth? That is more stupid than a 2 year old. Duality is not something you follow.

There is one thing true. You don't love me, and the world doesn't either. I am sick to be int he position where I have love for people that don't have any care about me. But you know what? That was probably the position Jesus was in. I don't care about all the stupid thoughts and words, I just know that you don't care about me, or probably not many people at all.

Originally posted by robhines
Ho ho, Devils Advocate time.

So, what if Lucifer is one of the leaders of our evolution? And the NWO are his agents. What if Lucifer all along has had it in mind to return to God when we've evolved enough? What if the only reason we're all suffering right now is because we've allowed the NWO to do every single thing they've done to us? That if we were truly aware and cared enough, we'd put a stop to it all right now and the game would be up.

What if the game will never be up until enough of us choose to wake up?

And what if Lucifer is our friend, pushing us on to make those final steps?

BTW : I see Jesus and Lucifer as part of the same thing, they're equals, because to me everything and everyone will always be equal. So no I don't hate Jesus and all of that other stuff, incase any Christians start up.

edit on 8-7-2012 by robhines because: added

What if I was pre-programmed to buy my toaster because it holds all of the answers of the universe? Perhaps my toaster is the key to enlightenment and when I read the instructions it will allow me to re-purpose the toaster as a space ship that not only takes me to the next level, but leaves behind a message for all mankind that if they eat pop-tarts they too can take a magical journey to a new world with 3 moons that symbolize the 3 ways to toast some bread - the toaster (the father), the toaster-oven (the seeker) and the good ol griddle (the spirit).

I see my story and yours as part of the same thing - (well actually I made my story up - someone else made up yours).

Originally posted by PeaNice
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Lucifer? See the 4th Fatima Prophecy if you want to know who he really is/was.

Ernest Borgnine?

What, too soon?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

www.abovetopsecret.com...

what ever!!!
what does not surprise me is the amount of people like yourself that think you have the REAL answer.



you have a blind faith, in something not tangible, written 300-900 years after the fact.

sorry, all you are doing is blowing your own horn...

nobody has the answers so maybe we all should talk in what ifs.

I cant leave it there though.

some here buy into a religion hook line and sinker, and buy into conspiracies but scoff at MSM Government and Banksters....
what ever, its my day off

reply to post by robhines


I see Jesus as the embodiment of spiritual wisdom, whereas Lucifer was spiritual POWER. They were the two halves of spirit...and their battles were representative of balancing the potential of spirit's empowerment with the responsibility and wisdom of spirit's intuition. Lucifer is the "enlightened" aspect of Jesus...the more powerful side, the more active side. Jesus was passive, whereas Lucifer constantly sought to grow more powerful. It wasn't that he wanted to rule, so much as to just POSSESS. Like possessing knowledge and control, you know?

Is that a bad thing, really? Considering we all want to sit at God's left hand and sing songs with Jesus?

I agree with your btw statement op. the one true god is in the centre of those two beings. It's neutral, understanding and it's love is unconditional. Good and evil pushes from both sides, like ping pong, and humanity is the ball, but the court gets smaller and smaller each time we pas the centre, untill... We are the centre.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Regardless, anyone that believes in God cannot logically believe in the Devil at the same time? If you believe in the devil, then your God is not omnipotent. So, by believing in the devil, you are limiting your God.

As this is a very long thread I haven't had chance to read it all so apologies if someone has made this point already.
From the way I understand it Lucifer/Satan/The Devil/ Old Nick whatever you want to call it is just a fallen Angel, as such surely any other Angel would have the the same power and be able to cancel out ANYTHING that it did. So if there is there really was a God in the way that the religious amongst you believe who created the Universe and EVERTHING in it ( Including The Devil ) And is the ULTIMATE power in said Universe then surely it would be a simple task for such a being to put a stop to Lucifer's misdeeds?!
Now before you all start jumping up and down and start spouting rubbish like The Devil is needed to test peoples worthiness to enter the Kingdom of God blah blah blah, just think for 1 second. If this God that you believe in and love so much cared the tiniest bit about the Human Race, never mind supposiedly lovining us as you would suggest then it would NEVER allow the things to happen to us that it does. So either it doesn't exist or at the very least if it does, it certainly doesn't deserve the respect or devotion that you seem so willing to blindly throw it's way!!

no, he is NOT our friend.

bad post... i cant believe this thread is still going...

Originally posted by Cycleiron

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Regardless, anyone that believes in God cannot logically believe in the Devil at the same time? If you believe in the devil, then your God is not omnipotent. So, by believing in the devil, you are limiting your God.

As this is a very long thread I haven't had chance to read it all so apologies if someone has made this point already.
From the way I understand it Lucifer/Satan/The Devil/ Old Nick whatever you want to call it is just a fallen Angel, as such surely any other Angel would have the the same power and be able to cancel out ANYTHING that it did. So if there is there really was a God in the way that the religious amongst you believe who created the Universe and EVERTHING in it ( Including The Devil ) And is the ULTIMATE power in said Universe then surely it would be a simple task for such a being to put a stop to Lucifer's misdeeds?!
Now before you all start jumping up and down and start spouting rubbish like The Devil is needed to test peoples worthiness to enter the Kingdom of God blah blah blah, just think for 1 second. If this God that you believe in and love so much cared the tiniest bit about the Human Race, never mind supposiedly lovining us as you would suggest then it would NEVER allow the things to happen to us that it does. So either it doesn't exist or at the very least if it does, it certainly doesn't deserve the respect or devotion that you seem so willing to blindly throw it's way!!

edit on 9-7-2012 by Cycleiron because: (no reason given)

But here is where these religious beliefs are justified and enforced. Yes I used the word enforced. When I was a mere 6-7 years old, I went from kindergarten to elementary school. I was enrolled in a Catholic elementary school. So it was INDOCTRINATED into me what my life's beliefs should be. There is a God, yadda yadda yadda, there is Jesus, yadda yadda, and there is the devil all too ready to "tempt" you to...explore certain parts of your body (don't wanna break the rules). Yadda.

So we were basically taught at an early age that we were already sinners, that because we are human we will continue to sin, and only if we reject the dude on our left shoulder (the one dressed in red with horns) and listened to the dude on our right soldier (the dude with the white robe and cool beard) then we would not be set afire for all of eternity and beyond.

If you argue factually any logical point (why does such a LOVING GOD allow the sweetest of kids to have horrible diseases like cancer) we are told "look, it's a mystery, stop actually trying to make any sense". We are told on one hand that we are created in the image of our God, but on the other we are way too dumb to understand his plan so don't even try. We're told to live in Jesus image (be ready to give up personal possessions to follow him) yet we see the leader of the church live in such ridiculous opulence it's hard to understand how rich the central church really is. They can't keep their hooks in you unless they keep you scared - of something.

I'm not saying there are not VERY decent christians, well-intended priests, or others who elect to serve their lord and by extension help people in need. That is indeed a noble undertaking. What I AM saying is that these texts that some blindly follow to the letter, who can quote any one of the 31K plus versus in their holy book (I can't quote emails I wrote today), are part of a corrupt organization and were written by men 2,000 years ago trying to make sense of a world that was out of control even then. As are those that thinking when you send 15 bucks to the dude preaching at 2 am in the morning on some cable station and who sends you back a piece of paper calling it a "prayer rug" will make you rich, too. Corrupt.

Spirituality can't be contained. But religion can and that's why these mega-religions ultimately get filled with evil, greedy people conducting evil, greedy deeds. You pull into the mega-church in your '89 VW Fox and the "preacher" lands on the roof via helicopter, yet you see nothing wrong with that. Too many too willing to make the yearning to know "why are we here?" a cash cow and a business. If the devil exists, he sure is right in front of you and you are told otherwise. I'm willing to bet that when the money runs dry, so does the message.