What if Japan restablished the Japanese Empire when the world goes into a depression?

Originally posted by OccamAssassin

Consider this.....Given what we know of Europe at the time.......The HC decided to drop the hydrogen bombs on Japan. Most seem to forget the importance of this single fact.......We could have bombed Germany back to the dark ages and ended the war in one fell swoop....Yet TPTB (real ones in this instance) blasted Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

At that stage in the war the European theatre was becoming a turkey shoot, the war in the Pacific was a tad different.

The US got to try out their new weapon, they got to show the world who's gonna be the post war boss and they got to end the war early rather than having to attempt a ground assault on the Japanese homeland, a prospect even the most hawkish military commanders didn't relish, the US troops involved in the Pacific campaigns had had a long war and moral was running low.

But here's a thing: there is evidence that the Japanese had already agreed to an unconditional surrender but the US didn't want to waste the opportunity and went ahead an dropped the two bombs anyway.

A post nuclear attack Japan appealed more to military strategists than a nuked out Europe for many obvious reasons, one of them being that the Germans had brilliant scientists and advanced tech that the US military industrialists wanted to get their fat little paws on, think V2, think Werner Von Braun, think ICBM. Unfortunately for the Japanese at that time they had nothing of the kind to offer.

reply to post by starwarsisreal


The nations to keep a much closer eye on are as follows: Germany, Muslim Brotherhood, USA and Israel.

Asia - including China would become a serious major worry perhaps 25-45 years from now

You might enjoy this after action report thread of a modern day mod for Hearts of Iron II. It is called "Rebirth of the Japanese Empire" and the premise is essentially the same. It's quite impressive what he manages to achieve against incredible odds.

forum.paradoxplaza.com...

reply to post by starwarsisreal


Have you been paying attention to the news?
Japan has its plate full of a situation that may well ruin the country...and you talk about expansion?

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
reply to post by Numbers33four

 

Well in this scenario US doesn't know Japan's real intention yet and will probably support Japan to counter China which is a bigger threat now

haha...you think that there is something US doesn't know

reply to post by seabhac-rua


Japan was in on the nuclear drops. You were unaware of this I know.

Originally posted by Numbers33four
turn off the oil spigot and Japan will slowly die

exactly, thats how war is being waged and the outcome being controlled (predicted). war is not cheap, you will need lots and lots of uninterupted resource supply.

cut the supply line and thats how (modern) war is being ended and stired!!!

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by OccamAssassin

Consider this.....Given what we know of Europe at the time.......The HC decided to drop the hydrogen bombs on Japan. Most seem to forget the importance of this single fact.......We could have bombed Germany back to the dark ages and ended the war in one fell swoop....Yet TPTB (real ones in this instance) blasted Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

At that stage in the war the European theatre was becoming a turkey shoot, the war in the Pacific was a tad different.

The US got to try out their new weapon, they got to show the world who's gonna be the post war boss and they got to end the war early rather than having to attempt a ground assault on the Japanese homeland, a prospect even the most hawkish military commanders didn't relish, the US troops involved in the Pacific campaigns had had a long war and moral was running low.

But here's a thing: there is evidence that the Japanese had already agreed to an unconditional surrender but the US didn't want to waste the opportunity and went ahead an dropped the two bombs anyway.

A post nuclear attack Japan appealed more to military strategists than a nuked out Europe for many obvious reasons, one of them being that the Germans had brilliant scientists and advanced tech that the US military industrialists wanted to get their fat little paws on, think V2, think Werner Von Braun, think ICBM. Unfortunately for the Japanese at that time they had nothing of the kind to offer.

edit on 7-7-2012 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-7-2012 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)

Come on, you are just spouting revisionist bunk.

Central to this accusation is the argument that Japan had been willing to surrender as early as the spring of 1945, providing they were allowed to keep their Emperor. Revisionists claim that both President Harry S.Truman and Secretary of State, James F. Byrnes had knowledge of this through the interception of Japanese messages, but that they wanted to continue the war until they had the opportunity to demonstrate the atomic bomb.

However, there is no proof that Japan had any intention of surrendering prior to the bombing of Hiroshima In fact, according to Allied intelligence, Japan was preparing a military build-up on the island of Kyushu, months before the bombing of Hiroshima, which indicated that Japan had every intention of fighting until the end.

The firebombing of Tokyo on the 9th and 10th of March, 1945, seems to have been largely overshadowed by the bombing of Hiroshima however, it is worth noting that the city was attacked by 279 B-29 Super Fortresses, which had been weighted down with 1650 tons of incendiary bombs.


The city was enduring a windstorm at the time and experiencing gusts of wind up to 110 km/h, which resulted in fanning the fires into a firestorm. As the majority of houses were made of paper and wood, the attack burned down over 10,000 acres of the city, killed between 80,000 to 120,000 people, and left around a million more homeless. Herman S. Wolk described this raid as the “the single greatest disaster suffered by any nation in the history of war” yet, the Japanese were still not prepared to surrender.


The Japanese Army during the Pacific War, operated under a perverse adaptation of the ancient Bushido code, and as a result, surrender was unthinkable. The most honourable fate for a warrior was to die while taking many enemies with him, as demonstrated by the kamikazes. Ordinary death in combat was the next most honourable fate, while suicide was the favoured alternative to surrender.

They had still not surrendered after the bomb was dropped.

Well then this would happen for sure....

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by deessell


My view that the Japanese were prepared to surrender comes from an interview I watched with a US airforce pilot who claims to have flown a delegation of US brass into Japan to discuss surrender prior to the H-bombings, if I can find it I'll post it, of course it may or may not be true. 'Revisionist bunk' need not apply here.

reply to post by bluemirage5


Why Germany? Germany is on deep s***t not just financially but also demographically

reply to post by seabhac-rua


There were rumors of a Japanese A bomb project

I think they have their hands full with glowing water right now

they may not be able to feed themselves

While this may be Chinese propaganda I find this relevant to the subject matter

China Daily

December 31, 2011

Japan's case of flawed priority
By Wang Hui

Tokyo's decision to ease arms exports ban is fraught with danger, for it could start a new arms race in Asia and worsen Mideast security

-Japan has been strengthening its military might since the Cold War days and especially after the first Gulf War under various pretexts, including the need to defend against non-existent enemies and bolster its global presence. That it has been nurturing expansionist ambitions, covertly and overtly, is evident in its Self Defense Force, for it is as good as any sophisticated army, endowed with advanced weapons and equipment and capable of conducting missions overseas whenever necessary.

Japan's decision to effectively lift the long-standing ban on export of arms is shortsighted, if not dangerous. Worse, it could backfire on domestic, regional and international fronts in the long run.

On Tuesday, Osamu Fujimura, chief secretary of Japan's Cabinet, announced that Tokyo was easing its decades-old ban on arms exports to pave the way for joint development and production of advanced weapons with other countries.

It is widely perceived that huge defense costs prompted Tokyo to relax the rules, which it had been mulling for years. Such concerns may be seemingly relevant given the financial pinch Japan is feeling in reviving the national economy after the triple disaster of the earthquake, tsunami and the subsequent leak from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. The triple disaster dealt a heavy blow to the Japanese economy, which had already been suffering from slow growth since the country's asset-price bubble burst in the early 1990s.

But compared to the economic benefits that arms exports could bring, the social and political repercussions of lifting the ban would be much greater and might even lead Japan onto a dangerous path. For example, the decision has already sown the seeds of social division. While some right-wing media and groups have lauded it as epoch-making, others have denounced it as being detrimental to Japan's image as a pacifist power and even violating its pacific constitution.

low-intensity-conflict-review.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

But here's a thing: there is evidence that the Japanese had already agreed to an unconditional surrender but the US didn't want to waste the opportunity and went ahead an dropped the two bombs anyway.

A post nuclear attack Japan appealed more to military strategists than a nuked out Europe for many obvious reasons, one of them being that the Germans had brilliant scientists and advanced tech that the US military industrialists wanted to get their fat little paws on, think V2, think Werner Von Braun, think ICBM. Unfortunately for the Japanese at that time they had nothing of the kind to offer.

Japan did have things to offer. Hal Gold in his book entitled Unit 731: Testimony, details through testimony, the history of Japan’s biological warfare program in Manchuria during the Pacific War. He also claims that the Japanese were planning to use biological weapons against the United States, which were based on successful attacks on Chinese cities. Gold’s most explosive claim is:

" With the dust of World War II still hanging over Tokyo, a new contest started. Rather
than making offensive war against its enemies, Unit 731 now went on the defensive
against the occupation forces. The data gained from human experimentation once
again became ammunition: this time in the bargaining room, rather than the
battlefield. The Japanese hoped to use their knowledge as a tool to gain freedom from
prosecution as war criminals"..

Post Fukushima, Japan is not in a good place for this sort of thing at the moment. Also, the national mood just isn't imperialistic like it was 75 or 100 years ago, most people in Japan don't crave empire.

Interestingly, I think there's more pressure from many foreign policy people in the U.S. for Japan to dump the post WWII military limitations in the peace treaty than there is internally in Japan. The U.S. would love to see Japan shoulder more of the burden of countering China, and I think in time it will happen.

Even as it is, Japan actually has one of the largest and most powerful militaries in the world. At only 1% GDP going into their defense forces, which they are limited to by the treaty, and even with their damaged economy, the country is still so rich that they can afford a very large force. Japan spends the 6th most on their armed forces of any country after the U.S., China, Russia, the U.K. and France, in that order and their expenditure is essentially on par with the U.K. and France (just under $60 billion in 2011, France and the UK were just over $60 billion).

Originally posted by LifeInDeath
Interestingly, I think there's more pressure from many foreign policy people in the U.S. for Japan to dump the post WWII military limitations in the peace treaty than there is internally in Japan. The U.S. would love to see Japan shoulder more of the burden of countering China, and I think in time it will happen.

I agree. Since the end of WW2, Japan has played a crucial role, through bi-lateral agreements, in US security framework in the Asia-Pacific. I believe we can expect that role to increase as the US pivots back to Asia Pacific.

Incidentally, I also believe that the threat of a nuclear North Korea has helped perpetuate the relationship. Now, there is also China.

reply to post by deessell


Like I said they didn't have scientists of Von Braun's caliber, they didn't have a missile program. Of course they had tech the US could benefit from, but nothing compared to the Germans, IMO.