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CHECKLIST CHALLENGE: Symptoms of Religious Addiction

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posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


The questions are tainted to make anyone who may have different views, feel like addicts and slaves to religious beliefs.

You seem addicted to putting religions down..is that any healthier?

The questions are certainly valid, and sorry, but if the shoe fits......
Wildtimes is not "putting down" religion, just showing the awful truths about it, much like I do. It is the Organization of Christianity that is evil. And the only way to defeat it is to expose it.


I think wildtimes and you really believe that, so I won't judge your motivations.
wildtimes comes of to me as someone who does care sincerely about others, but the problem we have here, is the pushing of individual truths on others, and not so much with wildtimes, though maybe she is being more subtle.

You want to change Christians , and to me that is no different than a Christian who won't quit preaching at someone who wants nothing to do with it.

You may not realize it auto wrench, but you are as mind controlling as the mind controlling you believe exists in Christianity .

You are NOT GOD, you only have the answers and what you call knowledge to feel that you are right, which is exactly what you don't like about what others say is their truth.

You put down the belief system and actions of others, and in the big picture you are not any better.

Let the real God, or Goddesses you say exist do the "exposing", after all if they are real like you say they are, I'm sure they can do a better job of it in the end.

Peace,
and may we all be brought to the truth, through the truth ,and by the truth for only the real truth can speak for itself. It isn't confined to ancient text, or sacred words though it may have footsteps there. If it is a living actual truth, nothing can alter its path, and purpose.


edit on 10-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


You put down the belief system and actions of others, and in the big picture you are not any better.

Let the real God, or Goddesses you say exist do the "exposing", after all if they are real like you say they are, I'm sure they can do a better job of it in the end.

Peace,
and may we all be brought to the truth, through the truth ,and by the truth for only the real truth can speak for itself. It isn't confined to ancient text, or sacred words though it may have footsteps there. If it is a living actual truth, nothing can alter its path, and purpose.

The real God/dess does speak for itself, within each individual. Autowrench is presenting information that he has. I see his actions as good: and you ARE judging...the first line quoted above is exactly that, a judgment, though you said at the beginning of this post that you would not judge.

You are right, the REAL truth is truth for everyone, it is not determined by a show of hands, nor by a preacher or bunch of long-dead barefoot shepherds and scribes. There is nothing wrong with suggesting that people think outside of the box they are in...especially when that box is both transparent AND suffocating.

If the questions in the OP cause someone to think about themselves, and slow down...they might actually hear the God/dess within. The behaviors listed in the OP are presented as introspective tools. It is for each person, individually, to determine a healthy course for themselves.

I am not trying to "make" anyone feel anything. I am trying to get people to THINK about what they are doing, and whether or not it is well-balanced. People sometimes forget that they have options, and are free to set goals for themselves. What works for one person will not necessarily work for anyone else. Especially when it comes to our spirits/souls, we each tread a unique path, and it happens to be my "nature" to speak out.

If I see a problem, and do nothing about it, I become part of the problem. Not saying anything is not participating in the reason for earthly existence. We are inextricably bound together, and we must help each other, not just sit silently by and allow others to self-destruct with misdirected obsessions, or be misled by outrageous "instructions."

That said, in this venue one cannot simply hang out a shingle or a banner or a flag and wait for clients or seekers or pupils or the lost to show up. It is incumbent on those who aim to be of help, of service to others, to present information without being asked, and hope that it might make a difference to someone, somewhere, who is suffering, whether immediately, or sometime in the unseen future.

There are many zealous preachers on this site, and in my opinion, there needs to be a balance, with other views presented.

Thanks for your participation in the thread.
Namaste



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





The real God/dess does speak for itself, within each individual. Autowrench is presenting information that he has. I see his actions as good: and you ARE judging...the first line quoted above is exactly that, a judgment, though you said at the beginning of this post that you would not judge.


I'm simply saying that everyone has their own truths , and why they believe them to be truths.

If someone wants the right to have their truths, they need to respect the rights of others to have theirs. I think you may reading too much into the judgement thing, though, yes, I am guilty of judgement at times, and I offer no apologies for that because I think we do need to have discernment, so we can make 'a judgemrnt call"for our lives, and those we may care about.

I'm far from a "perfect" Christian , and I will be the first to admit that, but that doesn't mean I don't keep trying, though I often fall short.




You are right, the REAL truth is truth for everyone, it is not determined by a show of hands, nor by a preacher or bunch of long-dead barefoot shepherds and scribes. There is nothing wrong with suggesting that people think outside of the box they are in...especially when that box is both transparent AND suffocating.


It maybe transparent and suffocating to some, while others see those that "suggest",as transparent and suffocating, because their methods of "suggestion" is delivered as an attack on their belief system.
Its a vicious circle that I'm sure God wants no part of.




If the questions in the OP cause someone to think about themselves, and slow down...they might actually hear the God/dess within. The behaviors listed in the OP are presented as introspective tools. It is for each person, individually, to determine a healthy course for themselves.


Thats a matter of opinion. And the op may just end up being a catalyst for some to pray more, and fast more, so the eyes of the blind can we awakened to what they see as truth.




I am not trying to "make" anyone feel anything. I am trying to get people to THINK about what they are doing, and whether or not it is well-balanced. People sometimes forget that they have options, and are free to set goals for themselves. What works for one person will not necessarily work for anyone else. Especially when it comes to our spirits/souls, we each tread a unique path, and it happens to be my "nature" to speak out.


As I am trying to get you to THINK about what you are doing, and whether it is healthy and well balanced, and yes, I agree what works for one may not work for another, which is why I think in matters of religion , it is most likely best to let others find their own paths to truth.

You say it is your nature to speak out, and for others, it is in their nature to speak out against what you speak of, and expose what they see as more ways of trying to control what others do.




If I see a problem, and do nothing about it, I become part of the problem. Not saying anything is not participating in the reason for earthly existence. We are inextricably bound together, and we must help each other, not just sit silently by and allow others to self-destruct with misdirected obsessions, or be misled by outrageous "instructions."


And that is exactly why many with devout faiths will oppose your "think out of the box" attitude, which subtly suggests that their belief system is skewed.




There are many zealous preachers on this site, and in my opinion, there needs to be a balance, with other views presented.


Perhaps there are, and we all have the right to a voice, but we can all expect to be challenged with how we use that voice, and for what motivation. I personally think you have the best of intentions, and you genuinely care for those who maybe caught in some sort of self defeating mindset, but at the same time, there are the devout who practice fasting,and prayer, have respect for the sexual act , that may take offense with the op, and your motivations ,and rightfully so.



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


Truth is not relative though. That's called the "Relativist Fallacy" in Philosophy. Relativism is self-refuting.



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


Truth is not relative though. That's called the "Relativist Fallacy" in Philosophy. Relativism is self-refuting.


I totally agree with you, and I'm not suggesting it is. What I am saying is that if truth is truth,and only one truth, will not that truth be the one to "expose" itself? I should word things better, so as not imply that there are many truths, when truth is simply truth.

I think God has exposed Himself through Christ , but hammering on it to someone who hasn't been shown that by God himself, isn't going to help God . In fact it just makes folks stubborn against the truth, because of the attitudes of man, and basically leads to humans shutting God out of their hearts, and minds, because of the actions of humans.

That's my opinion on it, for what its worth, and my attitude applies to others who try and teach their views as well.Often they do more harm to their cause than they may realize.



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


So if addicitions keep us from dealing with the cares of life, then what exactly are the cares of life?



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by mojo2012
reply to post by wildtimes
 


So if addicitions keep us from dealing with the cares of life, then what exactly are the cares of life?


I'm not living your life, so I can't answer that for you. People deal with their problems, fears, and stressors/life crises in different ways. Addictions are generally a kind of self-medication. Those "cares" can be relationship troubles, work troubles, physical health problems, major losses such as the death of a loved one or a divorce, loneliness, trauma (past or ongoing), or suffering because of a loved one's behavior (and its hurtful or destructive aspects), boredom, etc.

When strife, worry, grief, uncertainty, abandonment (or fear of it -- real or imagined), fear, abuse by others, etc... become too uncomfortable, diversions and escapes become attractive.

edit on 11-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


I personally think you have the best of intentions, and you genuinely care for those who maybe caught in some sort of self defeating mindset, but at the same time, there are the devout who practice fasting,and prayer, have respect for the sexual act , that may take offense with the op, and your motivations ,and rightfully so.

No, not rightfully so!

If anyone wants to read "manipulation" into the OP (a list of behaviors that may indicate a problem with choosing appropriate and healthy responses to the world), then they are projecting that onto the author of the list, and to me by proxy. I am not cramming anything down your or anyone's neck. It's a simple list of characteristics, for crying out loud!

Fast, pray, respect sex, worry, refuse to listen to anyone else...go right ahead. Just don't hurt anyone, please.

You have several times refuted yourself.

More than once, peppered into your responses, you say you believe I genuinely care. That is the truth. Let's just please leave it at that. It is not your place to judge me, ("you are NOT GOD") yet you are apparently judging at your whim whether my motives are benevolent or subtle brainwashing. I am not the enemy. Take the suggestions, or leave them.

If you choose to disregard the value of the OP, so be it. Take offense to it, even, but that is on you, not me. If you're so concerned about others being made to feel bad and wrong and ashamed, why are you attempting to portray ME as bad and wrong and somehow "evil"?

Please put to rest your suspicions and suggestions that I am up to some kind of sinister, malevolent, subtle evil. It's ridiculous. If the faithful feel they can pray for others who they see as lost, and that is okay, then why is my posting a clinical questionairre NOT okay?

There are disturbed, very troubled people, who need strength and reassurance outside of a religious venue. Some of them have been damaged BY religion, or seen loved ones damaged, even killed (by self or by others), by religion. Do they not deserve comfort and concern as well?

edit on 11-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I think anything can be addictive if the personality of the person has addict type tendancies. This can be for religious people or people who are devoid of a religious belief, in my own opinion both sets have their people who "preach" and go too far to the extreme.

Anything in extreme is bad, we should always seek the middle road.

I believe anyone who finds offense in the OP might feel defensive about having some of the qualities mentioned....

I am S&F ing your thread, I believe its a good one.




edit on 11-7-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





It is not your place to judge me, ("you are NOT GOD")


But you can judge others? and start whole threads based on that judgement..?

YOU ARE NOT GOD , as well !!!!




edit on 11-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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All right, since we have so few participants here, and some of them are hostile toward the list as an offensive, "made up," biased, pseudo-diagnostic attempt to shame and belittle...

I have a question. Instead of attacking the poster (against etiquette rules, btw, for you new folks), how about you provide a description for those who might be concerned about their own behaviors as maladaptive or overboard (and don't try to tell me people don't worry about whether they're normal or crazy, right or wrong, etc.), by explaining where that line is to them?

How much -- if any -- fasting and praying is enough? How much -- if any -- church-going and tithing is excessive? How much refusal to listen to science, logic, modern knowledge, and literary scrutiny of the shortcomings of religious thinking -- if any -- is appropriate?

Can you provide readers with that? As I said repeatedly, those things are fine if they are not disrupting your life, or the lives of those you love.

When does it cross that line to counterproductive neurosis?

Ever? Are you suggesting that it's impossible to become too wrapped up in religion to the neglect of all else?

Since you're the only ones playing, maybe you can help me to "discern" what YOU see as a balanced piety, and when it would become FOR YOU, a neurotic obsession based on unaddressed pain, fear, or programming?



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by OpinionatedB
 


I think anything can be addictive if the personality of the person has addict type tendancies. This can be for religious people or people who are devoid of a religious belief, in my own opinion both sets have their people who "preach" and go too far to the extreme.

Anything in extreme is bad, we should always seek the middle road.

I believe anyone who finds offense in the OP might feel defensive about having some of the qualities mentioned....

I agree completely...
Thanks, OpinionatedB, for your support. I like your new avatar, btw! Did you do that yourself?

edit on 11-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


I am a qualified, trained, experienced adult who has successfully raised two children, successfully conquered my own addictions, hold an advanced degree in Clinical Social Work, and have been honored with acknowledgment of my abilities to do so.

It's my JOB.

Doing it on ATS for free is one way I try to help the world to heal. I'm not JUDGING! I'm offering ideas for people to think about! That is not JUDGING...how many times do I have to point out that it's for EACH PERSON TO DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES? You are just refusing to get it. Whatever.
edit on 11-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Your welcome! And thanks for the avi compliment, PurpleChiten made it for me!



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I think some of this is subjective... but generally speaking it would be when anything get in the way of 'real life' ie: if religious practice ruins some part of your life, or someone elses....

one example would be harming another human being because of or in the name of religion.

another example would be if you ruined your marriage because of religion... (ie: you married someone who believes but did not attend the religious house of worship but on holidays and you badger them to the point of divorce over non attendance)

I think anytime you go from a personal belief in anything to outright prostelyzing then you are interupting the life of others.... personal belief is just that, and should be kept personal unless asked



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by OpinionatedB
 


Perfect examples, thank you again. And that's the thing about neuroses...it is a totally subjective thing. A person reports feeling uneasy. Clinical diagnostic tools are founded on the SUBJECTIVE experience of the CLIENT.

Again, this is not the "medical model" -- (you are sick and I am the expert). That is for doctors and psychiatrists, and many psychologists. I am speaking from a Social Work point of view...looking at the big picture, and how all of us are parts of a system in many ways...from work to family to neighborhood to organized affiliations to nations to faiths...

but we are ALL part of the WORLD of humanity. How we -- each individual -- respond to it is subjective, always -- it is our unique take on the realities as we find them to be. Others' perspectives are never the same as our own - it is impossible for that to be so.

Therefore, it is to be expected that we all have a unique concept of what is going on.

We are subject to our "narratives" -- our world-view -- as shaped by our personalities, environments, social circle, culture, and place in the human race. If our world view becomes too stuck, we get stuck, too. Getting unstuck is the trick.

(REALLY like that new avatar! Awesome!)



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by WhisperingWinds

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


Truth is not relative though. That's called the "Relativist Fallacy" in Philosophy. Relativism is self-refuting.


I totally agree with you, and I'm not suggesting it is. What I am saying is that if truth is truth,and only one truth, will not that truth be the one to "expose" itself? I should word things better, so as not imply that there are many truths, when truth is simply truth.

I think God has exposed Himself through Christ , but hammering on it to someone who hasn't been shown that by God himself, isn't going to help God . In fact it just makes folks stubborn against the truth, because of the attitudes of man, and basically leads to humans shutting God out of their hearts, and minds, because of the actions of humans.

That's my opinion on it, for what its worth, and my attitude applies to others who try and teach their views as well.Often they do more harm to their cause than they may realize.

.

My apology then. It appeared you were implying different people we entitled to different truths. Serves me right trying to slide posts in here or there while watching "Safehouse".


(Which is amazing btw)



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes

Originally posted by mojo2012
reply to post by wildtimes
 


So if addicitions keep us from dealing with the cares of life, then what exactly are the cares of life?


I'm not living your life, so I can't answer that for you. People deal with their problems, fears, and stressors/life crises in different ways. Addictions are generally a kind of self-medication. Those "cares" can be relationship troubles, work troubles, physical health problems, major losses such as the death of a loved one or a divorce, loneliness, trauma (past or ongoing), or suffering because of a loved one's behavior (and its hurtful or destructive aspects), boredom, etc.

When strife, worry, grief, uncertainty, abandonment (or fear of it -- real or imagined), fear, abuse by others, etc... become too uncomfortable, diversions and escapes become attractive.

edit on 11-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)


By cares of life I meant life's purpose. Everyone has things they have to deal with in this fleshly existence. I look at those things as tests and how you deal with them is based upon your character.

Here's some scripture that might help some of you out.

Matthew 11:28-30

"Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by wildtimes
 


I think some of this is subjective... but generally speaking it would be when anything get in the way of 'real life' ie: if religious practice ruins some part of your life, or someone elses....

one example would be harming another human being because of or in the name of religion.

another example would be if you ruined your marriage because of religion... (ie: you married someone who believes but did not attend the religious house of worship but on holidays and you badger them to the point of divorce over non attendance)

I think anytime you go from a personal belief in anything to outright prostelyzing then you are interupting the life of others.... personal belief is just that, and should be kept personal unless asked


Matthew 7:12

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by mojo2012
 



I look at those things as tests and how you deal with them is based upon your character.

They are "tests" (I prefer 'lessons'), that we came here to learn/pass. Escaping them by way of any addiction that distracts us from that end is not productive.


Thanks for the scripture as an effort to "help"... but it's not news to me. It's the Golden Rule. I already get it. I live by it.

Namaste
edit on 11-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



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