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CHECKLIST CHALLENGE: Symptoms of Religious Addiction

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posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


I hope so. Thank you for having me point it out better! I am on these forums not to "shame" anyone...but to suggest ideas and to give my own perspective. I know it rubs some the wrong way...but I'm just as passionate about what I believe as anyone else. Having said that, I am not absolutely convinced of anything except what I've personally experienced...

and it's been a rough road, many, many times. Thick forest, that!




posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

Greetings, Wildtimes. A star and flag for yet another thought provoking post. I will address a few of the symptoms...


Inability to think, doubt, or question religious information and/or authority

I see this all the time in real life. In my town, our local library is funded by several Church groups, and will not order or allow books on any other religion or faith, or Philosophy, or anything of an occult nature. This is denial. I see it in these forums too, the inability to think of anything but what has been pounded into their heads and shovelled down their throats since early childhood. I see self styled Internet Evangelists come in here, from most every sect, or cult, in my book, and run their spiel for us. The threats, and the hate for anything or anybody that tends to dispute them and their personal mission for God shows us all just what drives them, plain and unadulterated Fear.

Black-and-white, good/bad, either/or simplistic thinking: one way or the other

I believe I already addressed that one:
Why the Polar Opposites in Christianity?
That is how a Fundamentalist thinks, no secular person can adequately explain this, I myself think it may be neurological in nature. Either/Or thinking is not logical thought process. One also needs to see, and consider other possibilities, in fact all possibilities, or else the person denies themselves these other possibilities entirely.

Shame-based belief that you aren't good enough or you aren't doing it right

Yes it is a shame based, and fear based religion for certain. I know this from experience growing up in a Pentecostal Church.

Magical thinking that God will fix you/ do it all, without serious work on your part

We just recently had a major storm and days of power outage. I watch a lot of news on TV, and people all over say, "Thank God, Thank Jesus, as if they sit up there and direct the play on everything. Saw a woman whop lost everything, she thanks God she was spared. It wasn't her time to go! I run into a lot of people in these religious forums that talk directly to God all the time, and God tells them what to do and say. I also run into those who know exactly who said what 6000 years ago, and will swear to it. I run into people who know the "whole truth" while everything you know is "Satan's tricks, and if you happen to have been contacted by ETs, or someone who is passed from this life, that, my friend, is Demons. Christians seem to be bothered a lot by Demons, actually. I wonder why this is? Could it be their strong belief?

Compulsive or obsessive praying, going to church or crusades, quoting scripture

I hear that! Do you know how many are actively praying for my Soul and for me to "find my way?" More than just a few. I once had a few of them pray to Jesus that he "hold me over the pits of Hell," so that I would know it is real. There are probably enough Bible quotes in ATS to make 100 Bibles, I sometimes wonder why they do not just post links to the page where the quote is, and allow us to read it if we desire, instead of quoting "scripture" again and again. Great example of this behaviour here.

Believing that sex is dirty; believing our bodies or physical pleasures are evil

One of the main reasons I questioned Christianity in the first place. Christians seem to be obsessed with sex and death, don't they?

Manipulating scripture or texts, feeling specially chosen, claiming to receive special messages from God

Maintaining a religious "high", trance-like state, keeping a happy face (or the belief that one should...)

Attitude of righteousness or superiority: "we versus the world," including the denial of one's human-ness.

We all see this too. We who research these matters are told that we take things "out of context," and that we cannot even have an understanding without the "Holy Spirit." They all feel superior to the rest of us, that is plain in their talk. As for the happy face....well, sometimes I see it, and sometimes I do not. Of course I have my own thoughts and theories on religious cults, so I am a little biased here.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by jhill76
 



I question Father on many things, some things I should not have questioned him on. In this, I was taken, and brought back because I "understood".

You were "taken"? How? Where? You make me curious to know your story. "Brought back"?
Thanks for your expanded remarks. I, too, learn from observation. Your thoughts interest me, jhil! The way you speak of "Father" lends a very personalized tone.

I too would like to hear the entire story here. As for calling the male Divine "Father," this is what I call it, and "Mother" for the Divine female part of the Divine, to me this is natural. Of course, I do not think my Father and Mother are the same as the Gods of Christianity and Islam. And yes, to this writer, they are very close, and very personal.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 




We all see this too. We who research these matters are told that we take things "out of context," and that we cannot even have an understanding without the "Holy Spirit." They all feel superior to the rest of us, that is plain in their talk. As for the happy face....well, sometimes I see it, and sometimes I do not. Of course I have my own thoughts and theories on religious cults, so I am a little biased here



I personally don't feel superior to you, but I certainly don't feel inferior as well, just because my belief system doesn't match your own.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

Come on now, WT, chillax. They are attempting to draw you out. You are more than holding your own.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by jhill76
 



I question Father on many things, some things I should not have questioned him on. In this, I was taken, and brought back because I "understood".

You were "taken"? How? Where? You make me curious to know your story. "Brought back"?
Thanks for your expanded remarks. I, too, learn from observation. Your thoughts interest me, jhil! The way you speak of "Father" lends a very personalized tone.

I too would like to hear the entire story here. As for calling the male Divine "Father," this is what I call it, and "Mother" for the Divine female part of the Divine, to me this is natural. Of course, I do not think my Father and Mother are the same as the Gods of Christianity and Islam. And yes, to this writer, they are very close, and very personal.


The reason I have not done this, is because I do not want to seem like I am drawing attention to self, if that makes sense. Also, there would be questions on top of questions, as evident in the Why man is not allowed into hell thread. If Father allows it, I will.

Also, if I told you how I am here, it would be very hard to grasp for many. I can say that I am not fully here on Earth as you would think.
edit on 8-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


I personally don't feel superior to you, but I certainly don't feel inferior as well, just because my belief system doesn't match your own.

Thank you. A point I often try to make. We are all the same, we are all looking for truth in a sea of lies, we are looking for good in a garden of evil, we are looking for Source. Many ways, many paths to Center. Mine is not better than you, nor is it right while yours is wrong, it is simply different. My "beliefs" if you can call it that, are based on knowledge from many different sources, some extraterrestrial in nature, and are based on what I feel within myself. I am not a well man, but I am a happy man. I do not know what is coming, but I do know what do do when death occurs. And I know what I am. Perhaps that is what makes me different.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I understand addiction also. I was never an addict but I went through addiction with people very close to me over the years.

My point is just because Mr Baute labels these things as "symptoms of religious addiction" that doesn't mean that it is the case. Merely labeling something a religious addiction doesn't mean that a person is actually suffering from "religious addiction."

Basically he made it up. He has no evidence to offer that these things are symptoms of religious addiction or that religious addiction is even a real thing. Again I think he merely had an anti-religion agenda that was the inspiration for his invented diagnosis.
edit on 9-7-2012 by CoolerAbdullah786 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786
 


Basically he made it up. He has no evidence to offer that these things are symptoms of religious addiction or that religious addiction is even a real thing. Again I think he merely had an anti-religion agenda that was the inspiration for his invented diagnosis.

He made it up, eh?
Hmmm. Seems pretty straightforward diagnostic guidelines to me.

I know there are other sources as well (peer-reviewed journals) that speak to intense religion as a potentially maladaptive mind-set. I'll see if I can find some for you.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Hey, autowrench, thanks for chiming in. Your thoughtful response, as ever, lightens my spirits.


The library you describe sounds like a relic of censorship -- but based on what you've previously told me (us) about your community, it doesn't surprise me.

And yes, the example of scriptural overuse you linked is classic. I was just shut out completely from even commenting on that thread! It really does bother me, all this catastrophic hideous-consequences thinking.

If only people could look at the list the same as they would with any other questionnaire.

"Addiction" seems to have an automatic negative connotation, apparently. If only people would, instead, become "addicted" to being kind, thinking of others', listening and asking questions, and being compassionate..it would be a very, very positive thing.
And what a great transformation, eh?

EDIT TO ADD:
I just looked at your thread link. star/flag for you, nearly a year late, but well-deserved! I'll bump it back on the boards...seems ever so timely considering the new cohort that has since arrived.

edit on 9-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes

He made it up, eh?
Hmmm. Seems pretty straightforward diagnostic guidelines to me.

I know there are other sources as well (peer-reviewed journals) that speak to intense religion as a potentially maladaptive mind-set. I'll see if I can find some for you.


Yes, I do believe he made it up. Seems straightforward to you? Well that's nothing but a confirmation bias or appeal to belief fallacy.

Just because something is peer-reviewed doesn't mean it's a fact. Can they prove that religion is an addiction outside of their circular reasoning? No. As I said, anti-religion propaganda and nothing more. Like I said a lot of the things on that list aren't "addiction" in the least bit. I mean "excessive" praying? Well then hell all of us Muslims and devout Christians and Jews must all just be addicts.
That's not addiction, that's dedication to your faith.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786
 


Yeah, I know this is "just" wiki, but it does offer you the "proof" you asked for:
Behavioral Addiction
And it fits. Again, note that I specifically said that IF one is doing these things AND it is having negative consequences, THEN it is a cause for review, if not concern.

Behavioral (non-chemical) addiction is a form of addiction which does not rely on drugs like alcohol. Increasingly referred to as process addiction[1] or non-substance-related addiction [2][3] behavioral addiction includes a compulsion to repeatedly engage in an action until said action causes serious negative consequences to the person's physical, mental, social, and/or financial well-being.[4][5] One sign that a behavior has become addictive is if it persists despite these consequences.

Behavioral addiction, which is sometimes referred to as impulse control disorders, are increasingly recognized as treatable forms of addictions.[6] The type of behaviors which some people have identified as being addictive include gambling, food, sex, viewing of pornography, use of computers, playing video games, use of the internet, work, exercise, spiritual obsession (as opposed to religious devotion), pain [7], cutting, and shopping

When analyzing the addiction to food for example, a published study in 2009 from The Scripps Research Institute have shown for the first time that the same molecular mechanisms that drive people into drug addiction are behind the compulsion to overeat, pushing people into obesity. In this study, scientists focused on a particular receptor in the brain known to play an important role in vulnerability to drug addiction -- the dopamine D2 receptor. The D2 receptor responds to dopamine, a neurotransmitter that is released in the brain by pleasurable experiences like food or sex or drugs like coc aine [8].

Behavioral addictions has been proposed as a new class in DSM-5, but the only category included is gambling addiction. Internet addiction and sex addiction are included in the appendix.[9]

The term soft addiction was coined by Judith Sewell Wright to describe activities, moods or ways of being, avoidances, and things - edible and consumable but which do not pose a grave health disease risk - rather, they have the most effect on personal time and productivity. [10][11] These behaviors were profiled in a 2007 ABC News story titled Bad Habits.[12]

Emphasis mine. It's right there. A reported problematic behavior by those who suffer from it. Like I said, it's subjective. If your lifestyle and culture promote these things and provide you with adulation, good on ya. If, however, it is disruptive to the common good of whomever it may concern, then it's worth thinking over.

You make a valid point, of course, that

Just because something is peer-reviewed doesn't mean it's a fact. Can they prove that religion is an addiction outside of their circular reasoning? No.

Same goes for every religion. EVERY religion. Someone made it up, and was biased toward it. And we won't even go into circular reasoning, that is a self-evident REALITY regarding religion.
edit on 9-7-2012 by wildtimes because: formatting -- why is color not working??



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


"Addiction" seems to have an automatic negative connotation, apparently. If only people would, instead, become "addicted" to being kind, thinking of others', listening and asking questions, and being compassionate..it would be a very, very positive thing.
And what a great transformation, eh?

Yes, that is so. Even I have addictions, coffee for one, TV for another. But I do not necessarily need them, I rather want them, and there is a difference. I didn't need cigarettes anymore, so I left them, they are no longer a part of my life. Just as Humanity needs to cast off all addictions that drag them down, and keep them from attaining knowledge. I too think an addiction to being kind, thinking of others', listening and asking questions, and being compassionate to people would be a good thing. But is getting addicted to religion a bad thing? I got addicted to religion a few times, and the Magick....it is very seductive, and the more you use, the more you want to use. One thing alone saved me from this addiction, a little advice given my my my Grandfather, one of the greatest men I have ever known.
"Everything in Moderation, Nothing to Excess."
This advice helped me with a drinking problem, and a drug problem. I maintain a healthy body and strong immune system now, and everything in moderation.

Religion needs to be taken in moderation too. Having the attitude that one is all knowing, talks to God, understands the truth while no one else does.....well, that is not logical. We each make our own future here, I cannot make yours, nor can you create mine. My Life Path suits me fine, why does it bother others? I can take criticism on my ways, why cannot Christians take criticism? The point here is religion is a man made thing, and it only exits in this dimension. As humanity rises to the next dimension, and they will, religious dogma will be forgotten as humanity realizes who and what they are, and what their purpose in the whole scope of things is.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
Again, note that I specifically said that IF one is doing these things AND it is having negative consequences, THEN it is a cause for review, if not concern.


No, that's not what you originally said in your OP. I also don't see how that was Baute's intention either. He labeled all of these things as religious addiction with nothing to back it up. And sadly people with the same anti-religion/anti-faith attidues gobbled it up and swore by it as fact.

Again, a lot of the things on his list I would say are not indicative of addiction. Again, praying a lot? That's not addiction. That's faith. You even went so far as to claim there is something wrong with praying for people. At most it would come across as arrogance. Arrogance is not addiction. Again, all this thing is trying to do is paint religious actions as negative. It's a clear case of anti-religion bias.


You make a valid point, of course, that "Just because something is peer-reviewed doesn't mean it's a fact. Can they prove that religion is an addiction outside of their circular reasoning? No."
Same goes for every religion. EVERY religion. Someone made it up, and was biased toward it. And we won't even go into circular reasoning, that is a self-evident REALITY regarding religion.


And now a tu quoque argument? Since you think religion does it, since you think religion is man-made, then it's ok for a secular source to do it?



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 02:12 AM
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reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786
 






And now a tu quoque argument? Since you think religion does it, since you think religion is man-made, then it's ok for a secular source to do it?


Applause...you made so many great points in your post, but this in particular was the icing on the cake so to speak.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 09:37 AM
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reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786
 

Here is what I said in the OP (in case you've forgotten):
In the interest of denying ignorance, I an submitting this checklist for anyone who wonders if they've gone a bit "round the bend" from being a believer (of whatever 'religion'), and being a difficult, proselytizing fanatic. Asking someone to pray for you is fine. Telling someone you will "pray for them" because they are doomed to burn in hell and you are genuinely concerned about their salvation is something different.

Religion CAN BE an addiction, just as can ANY activity that allows one to escape from the stresses and cares of everyday life. Some examples of addictive behaviors: knitting, drugs, alcohol, sex, websurfing, attending funerals, hand-washing, smoking, basket-weaving, UFOs, movie-stars, jogging, preaching, nail-biting, talking....you name it, someone, somewhere, uses it as an escape from reality. And they CAN'T STOP.

Have a look, ATS, an honest self-searching look, at the following signs of religious addiction, and measure your own grasp of balance:
Is My Thinking Really Healthy?


I invited people to simply look at the list, and do a self-check on whether they feel their behavior around religion is healthy or not. You are twisting what I said, and the intent of the thread to begin with. Protest much?

I'm speaking NOT from a religious, or anti-religious, or faithful, or anti-faithful point of view. I don't really care either way whether people follow a religion or not, or have faith or not.

WHAT I CARE ABOUT IS THE HATRED AND CRUELTY perpetrated by people in the "name" of Faith or Religion. Your behavior on this thread bears witness to it. You are attacking ME, rather than addressing the SOCIOLOGICAL issue of the thread -- which is how being immersed in religion CAN be detrimental to relationships.

Okay, you convinced me. The guy made it all up, I'm a jerk and don't know anything about mental health or sociology, and you are perfectly right and non-biased and a super nice guy. Happy now? Go pray about that.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





I invited people to simply look at the list, and do a self-check on whether they feel their behavior around religion is healthy or not. You are twisting what I said, and the intent of the thread to begin with. Protest much?


In all fairness wildtimes , aren't you twisting the purpose behind what fasting and prayer is all about?

Your intent did seem to portray an addiction as someone who thought sex was dirty as a key pointer..

Well news flash wild, there is a lot of disgusting sexual acts out there, and it can be low down dirty, and it has become a serious addiction for some. Just take a look at some of the perversity out there.

The questions are tainted to make anyone who may have different views, feel like addicts and slaves to religious beliefs.

You seem addicted to putting religions down..is that any healthier?

Are those who have certain views on sexuality now considered unbalanced because they don't condone same gender sex ?

You have no clue as to what prayer can actually do, yet you can stand their with your pseudo psychological check list, and decide by some humans standards what is balanced?

The dude made some very valid and insightful points in my opinion, and I do think you made some of your own.

But there can be happy healthy individuals who choose to fast and pray, to a standard some might call excessive. If its not for you..fine.. but give them their freedom. If you don't believe in hell, what does it matter to you anyhow ?

The way you seem to try and "control" the behavior of others through your "certification and degrees" is what appears to me personally, as just another form of brainwashing.














edit on 10-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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Wow, some of you newbies don't even hesitate to launch full-fledged attack.

Pseudo, is it? If you want to deliberately twist my point and back up the 10-day member, that's fine. Everybody needs a team-mate on here. Do whatever. My reasons for being on ATS are to express my thoughts and opinions and to call out ignorance. I know some stuff, and I'm good at some things.

I don't know you, or abdullah, and you don't know me. Take the list or leave it. Up to you. There's no reason to insult me for posting it.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Another bump of your wisdom, autowrench:

Religion needs to be taken in moderation too. Having the attitude that one is all knowing, talks to God, understands the truth while no one else does.....well, that is not logical. We each make our own future here, I cannot make yours, nor can you create mine. My Life Path suits me fine, why does it bother others? I can take criticism on my ways, why cannot Christians take criticism?
I don't know why they can't. Fear?


The point here is religion is a man made thing, and it only exits in this dimension. As humanity rises to the next dimension, and they will, religious dogma will be forgotten as humanity realizes who and what they are, and what their purpose in the whole scope of things is.

Thank you. Yes, it is man-made, and humanity WILL rise to the next dimension, whether Atheists or Muslims or SDAs or "no-religion" followers of Christ the religious icon or the Pope, or anyone else wants to think so or not.
I don't know why these two have honed in on the "fasting and prayer" bit...pray and fast, I don't care, go ahead! Or the "sex" bit.. ... what's it to anyone who people express their sexuality with? It's nobody else's business!

Tolerance, people. TOLERANCE. Not HATRED or ILL WILL or misdirected projection....

And as autowrench says....
EVERYTHING IN MODERATION. Sheesh, the hostility here is getting thicker (again). Seems to come and go in waves....as members join and leave....in my experience, in a year and a half of reading/membership on ATS.
edit on 10-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


The questions are tainted to make anyone who may have different views, feel like addicts and slaves to religious beliefs.

You seem addicted to putting religions down..is that any healthier?

The questions are certainly valid, and sorry, but if the shoe fits......
Wildtimes is not "putting down" religion, just showing the awful truths about it, much like I do. It is the Organization of Christianity that is evil. And the only way to defeat it is to expose it.



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