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CHECKLIST CHALLENGE: Symptoms of Religious Addiction

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posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 




But many, many people don't know how to LISTEN -- or simply WON'T. They're too busy thinking of what they're going to say next, or calling up reasons to shoot down the others' perspective. Not good. Not Christ-like, or Buddha-like, or Krishna-like.


Many times, if said person didn't experience it with their own self, they don't see how it is possible for so many things out of the normal operating procedures to come about or take place. I could come onto these boards and tell you how the worlds were formed, or what it was like in the beginning. But, since their is no validation, or easily readable text to confirm what I speak, others just discount it.

The arks have felt that man doesn't want above's help (in the format in which it currently stands now), and I can see why they have drawn this conclusion. I think if Father granted it, so that all will be shown, it would be very different. At the same time, I understand his reasoning in keeping it like this, so that all can be tested, without having all of the answers in front of them. The teacher is always quiet during the test.

Above doesn't just help believers, they help non-believers to, in indirect ways, because it will help man as a whole. You think man thought on his own for the lightbulb, electricity, cooking, etc., it was an idea given to them, and they went ahead with it.
edit on 8-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


Above doesn't just help believers, they help non-believers to, in indirect ways, because it will help man as a whole. You think man thought on his own for the lightbulb, electricity, cooking, etc., it was an idea given to them, and they went ahead with it.

First of all, no, I don't think man comes up with everything on his own... inspiration comes from without (Above, as you call it). I am in no way an atheist; nor agnostic. I believe we are all connected; to one another, and are part of the Divine. It is not a "guy" watching every move we make and keeping a scorecard. It is not "someone" cataloging prayers and filing them under "To do", or "Holding", or putting them in the "round file" (trash can).

I believe Jesus was an advanced soul, possibly even a once-born perfected soul (who had no need for mutliple earthly life cycles to learn), who walked among men to inspire them to THINK about what they were doing, and how they wanted the world to be. I believe there are others like him (possibly even reincarnations of those perfected souls who have come before and become legendary), and that we ALL will eventually "graduate" to that awareness.

edit on 8-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 




(who had no need for mutliple earthly life cycles to learn)


This is very true, he is the only one who kept his memory intact, so that he could remain perfect. He would never have to come down here to learn.



I believe there are others like him (possibly even reincarnations of those perfected souls who have come before and become legendary), and that we ALL will eventually "graduate" to that awareness.


In the sense of coming from above to assist man in other ways, yes. I could name a few, but I think it is better left unsaid.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


In the sense of coming from above to assist man in other ways, yes.

I KNEW it!
So, who are th--------------

I could name a few, but I think it is better left unsaid.

Awww. boo! But I think you should tell me! u2u is fine, jhill.....





posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


The arks have felt that man doesn't want above's help (in the format in which it currently stands now), and I can see why they have drawn this conclusion.

Please explain. The "arks" ? Who are the arks? Archangels? Arks of covenants? If I read it as archangels, it makes sense to me. Is that the correct interpretation?

I fully believe that learning is by experience...TRUE learning. One has to LIVE it. I have had a handful of interactions with what you call "above"... profound moments of sudden awareness, and no, no one can tell me it wasn't real. I KNOW it was, though at the time some were startling experiences. Others were more serene, sublime, even, but still very real. There was/is no question in my mind about whether it was real or not.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 




Please explain. The "arks" ? Who are the arks? Archangels? Arks of covenants? If I read it as archangels, it makes sense to me. Is that the correct interpretation?


Yes, archangels.



I fully believe that learning is by experience...TRUE learning. One has to LIVE it. I have had a handful of interactions with what you call "above"... profound moments of sudden awareness, and no, no one can tell me it wasn't real. I KNOW it was, though at the time some were startling experiences. Others were more serene, sublime, even, but still very real. There was/is no question in my mind about whether it was real or not.


Yes, there are some archangels down here in the flesh, so that they may learn. You can observe and watch, but to live as a human and understand mans ways, that's how you can truly learn, and be of assistance to man as a whole.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Here's my ultimate problem with this: Pascal Baute, who came up with this obviously back in 1993, is proclaiming that these are symptoms of "religious addiction" and you are furthering it by saying if you have these "symptoms" then you are a religious addict. Then you are asking us to look at it and surmise whether we are "religious addicts" based on this man-made list.

What authority did Mr. Baute have to make this list? How do we know that these are symptoms of "religious addiction"?

Personally I see it has nothing more than yet another attempt to discredit and discourage religion/faith and religious/faithful individuals. It's like, "Do you exhibit some, many, or all of these symptoms? Then you are a religious addict, one level or another, and you need to think deeply about these symptoms you exhibit and reconsider your ways." It's attempting to shame people who may have these "symptoms," to make them feel like something is wrong with them. That's why it refers to it as "addiction" which is generally a bad thing.

While some of the "symptoms" are negative (like people who expect God to do everything for them), I find this list extremely biased. There was clearly an agenda by Mr. Baute when he came up with it.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Do you have a link to that thread? Interesting.
I'm fascinated by how the guys have derailed the thread already without addressing the OP points at all.

Oh well!

@NuT and lonewolf: did you see anything in the list that gave you pause to introspect?


I didnt address the OP because I figured after past convos between us you already knew my position on religion. (See links in sig)


edit on 8-7-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786
 


Okay, fair enough. Yes, you are right. But the list could fit ANY addiction. I was a substance abuse counselor, credentialed clinical therapist specialist in Children & Families, and ran a youth program for urban core kids (many of whom went to Catholic schools, incidentally). I know about addiction.

In diagnosis of mental and behavioral health, the purpose of asking the questions is to determine the degree to which an activity or behavior is detrimental to one's functioning well in society. Addictions are illnesses, no matter what they manifest as.

If a behavior, or way of thinking, or obsession, overrides clear-headed, balanced living, and especially if it affects others who are connected to the individual so immersed -- that behavior is unhealthy.

That said, it's for each person to determine whether they want to keep up what they are doing, or not. If someone loses his wife, kids, job, house, savings, and is cut off from his family due to, say, gambling....does he HAVE to stop?

Nope. Would it be better for him if he did? ONLY HE CAN KNOW that. A clinical therapist's job -- if one uses the client self-determination approach (you know yourself best, and you are capable of setting up your own goals, I can offer suggestions and support), rather than the medical model (you are sick and I have the cure) --- is not to label someone as sick ---- but to support the client's decision.

If a person is reading that list and thinking, "well, I'm all of those things, and I like being this way," then fine. But if they are suffering or causing suffering because of those things, then that is NOT FINE.

If activities subjectively (that means for the behaver) cause problems with family, friends, work, or functioning, and the person continues to engage in that counterproductive, or destructive, behavior, then it DOES need to be looked at.

That applies to an individual, a group of two, a group of more than two, a family, a workforce, neighborhoods, nation-states, and eventually the entire population of this Earth. A system is a system is a system. If it's broken, it needs fixing.

Obviously the world today is very broken. It's up to us to step up and change things. I do my part, using my God-given blessings, to help spread that word. Change agent. If the questions don't apply to you, or you have no problem with them being true for you, then that's up to you. As long as you're not HURTING ANYONE ELSE, go for it.

My job is to ask questions, to offer options and alternatives, and to provide support. Every person has a right to their feelings, and the right to feel validated. I'm sick and tired of all the bickering over a mystery that is a unique, personal journey for everyone.

Namaste
edit on 8-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Okay, but what do you think of the list, NuT?

It applies to any kind of addiction -- whether in a specific "religion" or in a personalized "belief system."



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Okay, but what do you think of the list, NuT?

It applies to any kind of addiction -- whether in a specific "religion" or in a personalized "belief system."


I agree with alot of it. The spirit of religion is a subtle yet VERY powerful spirit.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


You agree with it as in.... you think it's unhealthy? Or you think it's all appropriate?
Sorry, just asking for clarification.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


You agree with it as in.... you think it's unhealthy? Or you think it's all appropriate?
Sorry, just asking for clarification.


I agree that a lot of those are symptoms of religion. Especially unhealthy is people affected by that addiction either getting depressed with themselves or the opposite in thinking they are better than everyone else. Modern day Pharisees that Jesus mocked and ridiculed in His day.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





To me, wisdom is becoming aware that one doesn't know everything, can not possibly know everything in one lifetime, and being able to say "I don't know," without feeling bad about it. When one realizes just how much they don't know -- and can openly admit it, and begin looking around for information, it's very liberating.


I think for many , not knowing doesn't really point them to more books written by man, that may not really have the truth.

Faith is a bit of a mystery, and I think God can communicate the real truths that matter to someone without the use of extensive research of information within books.

Jesus said that children understand the spirit of God more than grownups many times. They have not searched alternative resources, and questioned love. They simply understand the principles of love God gives to us, through what God has already given them, in His wisdom.

I believe wisdom is a gift from God, and should be prayed for, and will not come from volumes of books.

Sadly I think the checklist, is very demeaning, and not accurate at all of how people who believe in God actually are, or how they view things, such as sex. Most religious people I know view sex as something that is highly respected as it creates life.

I think that checklist may say more about those who don't believe, and what sort of mindset they may have, such as petty vindictiveness, and the need to put down others for their beliefs, though I do agree there are some good points on the list.

Unfortunately there are extremists in all religions, as well as in the groups of those who have no religious beliefs.

edit on 8-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 



I think that checklist may say more about those who don't believe, and what sort of mindset they may have, such as petty vindictiveness, and the need to put down others for their beliefs.

No, the checklist is a standard questionnaire-type collection of behaviors called a "constellation". In every form of counseling, there are "constellations" of behavior that mark certain issues. A typical intake session is structured by listening to the client, and determining if their particular distress is indicative of a pattern established by accumulated research and facts.

Why are you putting down people who like to look at humanity's collective thoughts and writings in book form? We're here to help each other; it's perfectly appropriate to seek out one's peers (humans) if one has questions. Part of helping each other, and aiding in the betterment of the world for our descendants, is to provide history and information.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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To me, wisdom is becoming aware that one doesn't know everything, can not possibly know everything in one lifetime, and being able to say "I don't know," without feeling bad about it. When one realizes just how much they don't know -- and can openly admit it, and begin looking around for information, it's very liberating.


Many don't know what is in the afterlife, though many have said that they have communicated with those that do.

The checklist basically implies anyone who may pray everyday for more than hour, or fast two days every week, as excessive and unbalanced, and in need of help.

I understand the need to help others, and I'm not trying to say that its wrong to form checklists of behaviors that may be warning signs.

But many religious people pray and fast extensively , for their own good causes, who none us can say does not help, considering we haven't crossed to death yet.

I , personally, appreciate all those who do pray and fast on behalf of all humanity, and to make them feel as if they need help, shows me that perhaps what they are doing is the right thing.






edit on 8-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


and to make them feel as if they need help, shows me that perhaps what they are doing is the right thing.

Maybe you have not read my other posts in the thread. I made it clear that it is up to the person to decide if their behaviors are helping or hindering their ability to function within society.

I'm not "making" anybody do ANYTHING. People who are distraught know it. Like I said before, if you do all of those things, and find no problems arise from any of it, then more power to you. If someone else is hurt by it -- either a stranger or a loved one, it is a problem.

Why are you trying to make this look like I'm attacking anyone? It's simply a list. Only if one is obsessed to the point of doing ALL OF THOSE THINGS -- at the EXPENSE OF OTHERS -- is it suggested that one take a personal inventory.

Every person on this planet could stand to take a personal inventory and to take accountability for how their actions affect others. What is wrong with that??



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


and to make them feel as if they need help, shows me that perhaps what they are doing is the right thing.

Maybe you have not read my other posts in the thread. I made it clear that it is up to the person to decide if their behaviors are helping or hindering their ability to function within society.

I'm not "making" anybody do ANYTHING. People who are distraught know it. Like I said before, if you do all of those things, and find no problems arise from any of it, then more power to you. If someone else is hurt by it -- either a stranger or a loved one, it is a problem.

Why are you trying to make this look like I'm attacking anyone? It's simply a list. Only if one is obsessed to the point of doing ALL OF THOSE THINGS -- at the EXPENSE OF OTHERS -- is it suggested that one take a personal inventory.

Every person on this planet could stand to take a personal inventory and to take accountability for how their actions affect others. What is wrong with that??


I understand, and agree with you.

I apologize for reading into it incorrectly.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


Apology accepted, Whispering. Thanks. Sometimes I don't make myself clear enough -- though God knows I try!


edit on 8-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 02:43 PM
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my bad ,for not reading every post before responding.

*sighs*
edit on 8-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)



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