Enlightenment

Originally posted by BlueMule
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

I don't trust your perceptions of anything or your interpretations of anything, but I respect your right to have them. I will leave you to them, since it is my current feeling that you are not meant for enlightenment in this life. Not everyone is, and that doesn't make you a bad person, in case you were wondering. Good luck in your next life.

edit on 7-7-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

If me trusting anything you say helps you to justify your own decisions and convictions regarding anything spiritual, I hereby accept what you say as god's honest truth. I will give you the benefit of the doubt on all matters mystical, ineffable and spiritual. Now you may walk proud with the justification and acknowledgement you seek, as someone, who is enlightened, rightly deserves.

reply to post by TheSubversiveOne


I really don't care what you or anyone else thinks of my decisions and convictions regarding anything spiritual, and your sarcasm really doesn't bother me. You are what you are and I am what I am, and I'm not judging either of us. Good-bye.

reply to post by ypperst


There is no such thing as enlightenment, only moments of satori, where everything comes into focus for you. Anyone who claims to be enlightened, or that you can find enlightenment through a religious, or spiritual avenue, has never truly been woken up. The act of waking up, itself, is also just temporary. As human beings, we cannot fully exist within the sphere of independence, because we are so tied to our systems and machinations. Whether through biology, psychology, or some other means, we cannot separate ourselves from the world. We can only ever glimpse moments of something else. This is called satori, and it is the real awakening. A moment of clarity, a water drop of happiness, purity, in the sea of obscurity.

~ Wandering Scribe

Kenshō (見性) (Chinese: jian xing) is a Japanese term from the Zen tradition. Literally it means "seeing (one's) nature"[1] or "true self".[2]. It is commonly translated as enlightenment, a word that is also used to translate bodhi, prajna, satori and buddhahood.

In kensho one realizes that there are no inherently existing 'things', that the world we experience is empty. It also...

...refers to the realization of nonduality of subject and object.

Sounds like enlightenment to me.

/shrug

But I respect your right to your interpretations.

reply to post by nimbinned


Im glad you found it interesting, I certainly do

Many think they have the Truth in exclusivity, but it isnt that way inherently. Sharing is a wonderful thing, and we can glimpse Truth through it. Though, always only through our own eyes. The complexity of the interwoven systems is astounding to such limited perspectives as ours.

"If you dont go within, you will go without." I rather like that, do you mind if I use it in the future?

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by BlueMule
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

I don't trust your perceptions of anything or your interpretations of anything, but I respect your right to have them. I will leave you to them, since it is my current feeling that you are not meant for enlightenment in this life. Not everyone is, and that doesn't make you a bad person, in case you were wondering. Good luck in your next life.

edit on 7-7-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

If me trusting anything you say helps you to justify your own decisions and convictions regarding anything spiritual, I hereby accept what you say as god's honest truth. I will give you the benefit of the doubt on all matters mystical, ineffable and spiritual. Now you may walk proud with the justification and acknowledgement you seek, as someone, who is enlightened, rightly deserves.

That was unfair, you already claimed your opinion is just as valid and should be accepted as such.
To denigrate someone using thinly veiled, patronising, sarcasm after requesting your opinion be regarded with respect, is certainly un-necessary.
It would have been far more becoming to just have said nothing and walk away.
not easy sometimes i know, but, very definitely required at times.

reply to post by ZIPMATT


You "stop" meditating?

Beyond that, Ill repeat myself;

"But look at how often the "lungs" try to tell the heart that it is "doing it wrong""

and

"As always, I only speak for myself"

I appreciate your advice, but try not to make too many assumptions My quoted post there is actually a personal story of transcending thought and logic. Did you understand my allegories? I am not always clear. I do admit I prefer my words to be contextually logical, as I try to communicate with relevance to the systems involved. Call it a quirk

Originally posted by sinohptik
reply to post by nimbinned

 

Im glad you found it interesting, I certainly do

Many think they have the Truth in exclusivity, but it isnt that way inherently. Sharing is a wonderful thing, and we can glimpse Truth through it. Though, always only through our own eyes. The complexity of the interwoven systems is astounding to such limited perspectives as ours.

"If you dont go within, you will go without." I rather like that, do you mind if I use it in the future?

Sure, no problem. It's not my quote, but a rather popular new-agey one you see around the place.

I must say - your avatar had a real affect on me when I first saw it. Years ago I would meditate with the Brahma Kumaris in Melbourne and they had a massive painting in their main room similar to that. It was like you could feel your soul being pulled in to it - very trippy.

Peace and Light

Originally posted by BlueMule
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

I really don't care what you or anyone else thinks of my decisions and convictions regarding anything spiritual, and your sarcasm really doesn't bother me. You are what you are and I am what I am, and I'm not judging either of us. Good-bye.

The last thing I want to do is cause emotional responses from my words. I'm not judging you either. Just your words, which you are not.

Please accept my apology for my sarcasm. I was under the impression that it was a prerequisite of the internet.

reply to post by BlueMule


Don't get me wrong, there are myriad philosophic concepts of "enlightenment," but none of them are universally valid. All of them require the recipient to adhere to a philosophy, belief, or mode of thinking. This makes everything inherently false, because it paints the whole experience with the bias of the lesson the student has undergone.

I use satori because it does not need to be taught, learned, or sought-for. It certainly can, but, it can also strike you without warning or preparation. When it comes, you see everything with clarity for a moment, a moment beyond explanation, and then you come back down, and can work with what you've seen, but cannot describe.

That's all. Kensho and Satori are similar, but, have differences too. The problem comes with East-to-West translations. Kensho deals with the "True Self," where satori deals with the true experience, I guess you could say. That's my understanding of the two, at least.

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by BlueMule

 

I use satori because it does not need to be taught, learned, or sought-for. It certainly can, but, it can also strike you without warning or preparation. When it comes, you see everything with clarity for a moment, a moment beyond explanation, and then you come back down, and can work with what you've seen, but cannot describe.

Sounds like you are describing a spontaneous 'pure consciousness event'.

Originally posted by The X

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by BlueMule
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

I don't trust your perceptions of anything or your interpretations of anything, but I respect your right to have them. I will leave you to them, since it is my current feeling that you are not meant for enlightenment in this life. Not everyone is, and that doesn't make you a bad person, in case you were wondering. Good luck in your next life.

edit on 7-7-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

If me trusting anything you say helps you to justify your own decisions and convictions regarding anything spiritual, I hereby accept what you say as god's honest truth. I will give you the benefit of the doubt on all matters mystical, ineffable and spiritual. Now you may walk proud with the justification and acknowledgement you seek, as someone, who is enlightened, rightly deserves.

That was unfair, you already claimed your opinion is just as valid and should be accepted as such.
To denigrate someone using thinly veiled, patronising, sarcasm after requesting your opinion be regarded with respect, is certainly un-necessary.
It would have been far more becoming to just have said nothing and walk away.
not easy sometimes i know, but, very definitely required at times.

You are right. And I appreciate you taking the time to become the sanctimonious voice of reason in here, and taking the time to attempt to shame me for being a bad man.

As for those who say "You cannot be enlightened because you are claiming it on an internet forum".
I did not regard myself as being "Enlightened", i had an experience of a flower breaking open from the back of my head and unfolding over me.
A very real, physical feeling in the finer spiritual/metaphysical self, this happened whilst meditating, and raising kundalini energy through the chakras, clearing the chakra of the "Catches" (momentary stops in the spinning is what it feels like due to impure energy there) before moving the energy to the next chakra, when you raise the energy and the chakras are spinning clearly without catches, the connection is made between your spiritual self and the connection to god.
All souls come from the Lotus flower, whether you like it or not, it is the truth.
And please, make the effort to prove me wrong, but, only can you do this by beginning many years practice of meditation and attempting to raise your own pure energy to the crown chakra.
I don't expect you to believe me, i know it happened, what you believe is your business.
After doing some research into what this experience was, i discovered this in 2007, this "happened" to me on friday 12th november 1998.

"The thousand-petaled lotus signifies spiritual illumination".
In buddhist and hindu writings, it is explained that "Om mani padme hum" [O Jewel in the Lotus Flower] "signifies not only the jewel of man's divinity living within the lotus (the cosmos), but also the jewel of cosmic divinity living within the lotus (man). In other words, the mantra is saying, "I am in You and You are in me," thereby stating the unity and brotherhood of all beings, as well as their inner divine potential. This is one way of expressing the principle of "As above, so below."

You see, "i am in you and you are in me".
I am within the Lotus of the universe, the Lotus (PROOF of divine origin) lives within me.
And no this isn't "Allegorical" it is a physically felt manifestation of feeling a Flower as part of your physical self.
It is very odd to feel a bud break out of the back of your head, and it unfold into a large flower over your head.


The specific yogic teaching that addresses energy centers within the human being, known as the chakra system, uses a lotus with varied numbers of petals to represent each particular chakra. The crown chakra is the thousand-petaled lotus, and so its blossoming indicates enlightenment.
They call it "Thousand petaled Lotus" actually it has 972 petals, not 1000.

Enlightenment, i have felt it, and i don't really care whether or not you believe me,i am just presenting you with the information i have found regarding what i felt.
Enlightenment for me was the beginning of the path to understanding that without a doubt, I KNOW god exists.
Many people will doubt, Many people will doubt god exists, many think they believe god exists, but, sometimes they wonder.
I will never doubt a second in my life, I KNOW, and i didn't get my knowledge second hand from a book.
I am Enlightened.

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by The X

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by BlueMule
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

I don't trust your perceptions of anything or your interpretations of anything, but I respect your right to have them. I will leave you to them, since it is my current feeling that you are not meant for enlightenment in this life. Not everyone is, and that doesn't make you a bad person, in case you were wondering. Good luck in your next life.

edit on 7-7-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

If me trusting anything you say helps you to justify your own decisions and convictions regarding anything spiritual, I hereby accept what you say as god's honest truth. I will give you the benefit of the doubt on all matters mystical, ineffable and spiritual. Now you may walk proud with the justification and acknowledgement you seek, as someone, who is enlightened, rightly deserves.

That was unfair, you already claimed your opinion is just as valid and should be accepted as such.
To denigrate someone using thinly veiled, patronising, sarcasm after requesting your opinion be regarded with respect, is certainly un-necessary.
It would have been far more becoming to just have said nothing and walk away.
not easy sometimes i know, but, very definitely required at times.

You are right. And I appreciate you taking the time to become the sanctimonious voice of reason in here, and taking the time to attempt to shame me for being a bad man.

Sanctimonious?, i am in no way feigning anything, i am vexed by your treatment of another person, that person did not deserve to be treated as such, if anything i am indignant of your treatment of another person.
And why attempt another perfidious sleight?..
You make yourself feel anyway you wan't to, I certainly did not post with any intention of "Shaming you".

I missed the apology you made in your next post, i wholeheartedly apologise for being to quick to chide you for your words, i should have taken more care.
I am very sorry.

reply to post by The X


Do debates not get heated? I pride myself on the ability of my opponents, and he is no slouch in the brains department. He is completely capable of defending himself. But you attempting to shame me, and make me look like a bad man, by defending him, someone in no need of any defense from someone else, shows someone who is sanctimonious.

I'm here to argue and get at the bottom of things, not to become someones moral superior.

reply to post by ypperst


I think I like this.

A person is as a person does. And a person does as he or she is driven to do by what is embraced as either allowed or required - that distinction being key to the character of the person involved.

A lot is allowed, and even more is legal. What's required in a given situation is not as easy to provide, but it does take an enlightened point of view to even be able to determine what is required, let alone deliver on it.

Good thread opener.

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
reply to post by The X

 

Do debates not get heated? I pride myself on the ability of my opponents, and he is no slouch in the brains department. He is completely capable of defending himself. But you attempting to shame me, and make me look like a bad man, by defending him, someone in no need of any defense from someone else, shows someone who is sanctimonious.

I'm here to argue and get at the bottom of things, not to become someones moral superior.

Look you need to understand the use of language, sanctimonious, feigning righteousness, i was not "Feigning" ANYTHING, I meant it, and after i apologised to you, was there any need for this?.
And again, you can make yourself feel anyway you like about your own actions, i did not attempt to shame you.
And yes sometimes, people get their feelings hurt, and would rather just not engage intolerable sarcastic stupidity.
it's the same for me in life, if i see anyone being attacked, verbally or physically, i will get involved, and no, i don't feign involvement.
As for priding yourself on the ability of your opponents, why attempt to use sarcasm to browbeat him, when in all fairness, you probably could see yourself, that this is not a tactic they would have used themselves?.
Maybe you should pride yourself on the way you treat an opponent.

Originally posted by NorEaster
reply to post by ypperst

 

I think I like this.

A person is as a person does. And a person does as he or she is driven to do by what is embraced as either allowed or required - that distinction being key to the character of the person involved.

A lot is allowed, and even more is legal. What's required in a given situation is not as easy to provide, but it does take an enlightened point of view to even be able to determine what is required, let alone deliver on it.

Good thread opener.

edit on 7/7/2012 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)

That is by far the best synopsis of a thread i have ever seen, most excellent mental gymnastic ability good sir.

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by sinohptik
reply to post by BlueMule

 

I was not looking for answers or teaching, I was looking to explore your perspective.

And I was not looking to explore my perspective with you, I was looking to address posts as I see fit. I no longer see fit to address your posts, but rest assured that if that changes you will know.

edit on 7-7-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Man, what a fail. Wonderful.

Son, I wasn't even going to bother with this beyond that one post addressing my appreciation for the OP's thoughts, but you're like a big fat bright orange target with a huge black f*ck-you painted right in the middle of it, and I'm not made of wood.

I'm going to propose that you're a construct persona that was created by the board's admin staff to piss off people in this forum and kick up the posting traffic in response to your being so freakin' unbelievable, and I hope I'm not upsetting the staff by suggesting such a thing. The truth is that there just might be a real live person who actually is so completely stuffed full of himself that he can actually believe that what you've posted recently is how he actually sees himself relative to everyone else. That said, I'm suspicious that such a person exists here. Kind of like I don't believe in "absolutely" as being anything more than a guy who sends each post through BabelFish (twice) before replying as a goof on everyone here. In fact, I took a post, translated it into German, and then retranslated it back into English and it sounded just like an "absolutely" post, so I may be correct in my assumption of what his deal is.

At any rate, you could not sound any less enlightened if you actually were a ball-bust fake persona that's designed to generate drama within this forum. In that sense, you've achieved excellence in your own expression of what that term can mean.

Originally posted by sinohptik
reply to post by ZIPMATT

 

You "stop" meditating?

Beyond that, Ill repeat myself;

"But look at how often the "lungs" try to tell the heart that it is "doing it wrong""

and

"As always, I only speak for myself"

I appreciate your advice, but try not to make too many assumptions

My quoted post there is actually a personal story of transcending thought and logic. Did you understand my allegories? I am not always clear. I do admit I prefer my words to be contextually logical, as I try to communicate with relevance to the systems involved. Call it a quirk

Sorrry its a blog thing really where the thread/your quotes got used