Hitler protected Jewish World War One veteran: letter

Originally posted by Muckster

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by starwarsisreal

 

I knew racist white kids back in the day who had the odd black friend... "nah he's alright he's one of the gooduns" they would say...

They would still go out on a Friday night looking black or asian kids to beat up. They were still filthy racist scum bags.

always just the racist white kids, never the racist black kids.............

Thats because its a true story... would you prefer me to invent one?

Ridiculous comment!

yeah, never met a racist non white....

The problem with the politically correct interpretation of the Holocaust is that jews insist on all or nothing. You either accept the whole story 6 million deaths via gas chambers and all or you're a Holocaust denier. There are lots of people, me included, who are highly skeptical of the official version but who also accept the fact that jews were killed deliberately by nazis during WW2. That by itself is quite sufficient to be considered a tragedy and a basis for the Holocaust. it isn't necessary to embellish the tragedy with unsubstantiated myth about gas chambers and inflated numbers. The Nuremburg Trials never declared that 6 million jews had died in concentration camps. Expert testimony in the Ernst Zundel trial in Canada showed conclusively that the so called gas chamber at Auschwitz was never used as a gas chamber. Pre and post war censuses for world wide jews put out by the World Jewish Congress show a difference of less than 3 million. The official plaque at Auschwitz, which used to claim 4 million deaths from that camp alone, now says 1.5 million. So 2.5 million deaths have disappeared but the total is still 6 million? David Irving, who became famous for his meticulous research before stepping into the Holocaust minefield, makes the very good point that the allies were sending recon flights over Auschwitz on a regular basis and taking detailed photos which Irving found in the British archives. The logistical requirements that would have been necessary to kill 4 million people at Auschwitz would have required huge piles of coke for the crematoriums OR huge mass graves. Neither of those show up in the recon photos.

Irving has never claimed that no jews were killed. He has always admitted that the nazis via the SS committed murders against innocent people, including jews. The Holocaust debate doesn't have to be an all or nothing contest. In their zeal to exploit the 6 million deaths version for political gains in order to establish the state of Israel, the zionists have now backed all jews into a corner whereby it's becoming more and more difficult to justify the wholesale condemnation of anyone who dares to ask annoying questions about the accepted version.

Estimates of the total deaths in WW2 range from 30 to 50 million and only a small fraction of that total are deaths of military personnel. The rest are all civilians. There are plenty of atrocities to go around on both sides. Nobody vilifies the Russians because Stalin ordered millions of Ukrainians starved to death. Nobody vilifies the Japanese for their cruel treatment of civilians and POWs or the Rape of Nanking and nobody vilifies the English for systematic and persistent bombing of German cities long after there was any further military gain to be had from it but the Germans are vilified for what happened to the jews. Go ahead and call it payback or revenge because that's what it is but don't call it justice.

reply to post by Lannister

I'm not sure 150,000 Jews that didn't consider themselves Jews chose to fight to rid the world of Jews. Why and how did these people not consider themselves Jews? That also doesn't explain the Jewish family doctor of Hitler or why Hitler chose to let Jews openly walk out of the country prior to the start of the war. Also, on to the camps, I want to know what exactly is true and what is made up. There are holocaust survivors that state Jews were made into lamp shades... others state that they were treated decently and even treated to theatre and shows - cigarettes even. I've yet to find any real fact behind the gas chambers. There are so many stories and so many contradictions that it's hard to tell the truth from the fiction.

Oh come on... this is so poor...

Do you really believe that all the German solders signed up to "rid the world of Jews"?? Not every German was a Nazi and not every solder hated Jews. There were many that were simply misled patriots... blinded and gullible... There a big difference between the Wehrmacht and the fanatical SS.

Many Jews would have signed up because they were patriots to their country... not actually knowing what was going on in the death camps. Many Germans had heard rumours... but many either didn’t believe, or didn’t want to believe.

Let’s face it... we have deniers now!! After the war... with hundreds of hours of documentary’s, recorded evidence, eye witness accounts, victims statements and solders testimonies... All of this ignored, because a few far right crackpots invent story’s and talk about Hitler’s Jewish mate while making statement such as “he only experimented on a few of em”

I used to be confused by the madness of this denial... but now I see it for what it really is... a sick and twisted attempt, to lesson disgust from the general population, by those who have their own bigoted ideologies.

reply to post by Studenofhistory


Excellent post.

Pretty much sums up my views too...........Just wish I could put them into words as you have.

reply to post by blueorder

yeah, never met a racist non white....

Do you have the capacity to argue/discuss like a grown up or are you going to continue with single line irrelevant ramblings??

I was making a point using a real life example from my own past!!! Never once did i say that "non whites" cannot be racist.

Please... either state you point clearly or say nothing at all...

Guess this proves that no matter how evil you think someone is or was, they did something that proves they weren't COMPLETELY evil...

There's nothing truly good or evil in the universe. And anything that is (because there's always an exception) was made by man.

reply to post by Muckster


I wouldn't say that these "deneiers" actually deny the entire holocaust but more so parts of it such as the gas chambers and Jews being made into lamp shades. We know there were camps, but with that knowledge we also know that the truth has been stretched. For instance, there are a few black US soldiers that state that they personally liberated one of these camps yet no black units were even around the area the day that particular camp was freed. Also, the lamp shade stories have been proven to be false propaganda and there is still no evidence of gas chambers. I wouldn't sit here and call someone a holocause denier for simply asking the question as to why the truth is being stretched? For what purpose? Why exactly was it okay for the US to hold the Japanese in camps but not the Jews?

Originally posted by Muckster

I knew racist white kids back in the day who had the odd black friend... "nah he's alright he's one of the gooduns" they would say...

They would still go out on a Friday night looking black or asian kids to beat up. They were still filthy racist scum bags.

That specific racist experience you have, has nothing at all to do with Germany. Except in American movies.

First, Hitler is by all counts, jewish on one side. Secondly, the jews are the same kind of white scum, the germans are. Thirdly, Germans are not blonde ... that is probably the biggest racist remark ever made. If you want to hear a good old description of the "average" German, both before and after the war ... then go and take a look at your "average" jewish person ... they're pretty much the same. And it's "not" big nose that makes jews distinct.

And finally, apart from Hollywood made history books ... the germans hated Jews, for the same reason Americans hate bankers today. After WWI, Britain and France, played a very dirty trick on German that caused tens of thousands of Germans (if not hundreds of thousands) to die from starvation. History states, that at a certain time, people of Germany had to drive truckloads of money around to buy stuff ... and that isn't even exageration. The average German was made to believe that the "Jews" were to blame ...

Thirdly, although I agree that most of the blonde northern Europeans are dumb as nuts. They're historically judged dumb, more for the reason of them being not racist, than being racist. The racist "blonde" personality, that you are referring to ... is actually the "english" and the "danish", and the german population.

reply to post by Lannister



I'd like to make a couple of points...

Ok lets, for arguments sake, say it was not 6 million... maybe it was 5 million... or maybe 4 million Jews killed... but so what... 4 million is still a lot of bloody people. It’s the whole... Hitler wasn’t that bad cos he didn’t murder as many as they say!!

Sorry but that just warped as far as i'm concerned.

And then we have the other argument that normally goes along the lines of...

"but the allies committed atrocities and we don’t call them murders, why should we call Hitler a murderer"

Again... this is not really addressing the issue of the allies’ war crimes so much as simply trying to lessen the crimes of the Nazis by pointing fingers at other people!

You cannot use the crimes of the allies to somehow justify the crimes of the Nazis.

Again... warped logic...

If you do believe that the allies committed war crimes (and i do believe that) then fine... start a thread on it where it can be discussed... But one crime cannot and should not justify another.

If you murder a man’s child would "but he murdered mine" be a reasonable excuse?? I don’t think it would... just simply makes you both as sick and twisted as each other.

Whenever this discussion comes up... the further it goes on... the more the deniers start to show their colours. Now I am sure that there are some deniers who are just honestly seeking truth and have questions regarding the historical facts... but often the deniers rhetoric starts to take a sinister tone... With anti Jewish sentiment and outright racist comments... I’ve seen many of these threads and discussions over the years and its always goes down the same path.

Peace

Having done additional research I now agree that the number of civilian deaths from the firebombing of Dresden is closer to 20,000 than it is to 100,000. So you see it is possible to let the truth prevail. Even British military personnel admitted that the bombing of Dresden was an immoral act of terror.

The 800 lb gorilla in the room with regards to the Holocaust is the moral outrage at the magnitude of the number. If the allegations had been 60,000 total, it would be hard to see how Jews could justify their wholesale condemnation of the German people as monsters but MY GOD SIX MILLION! Well, any number that large MUST be true, right?

And that's the crux of the matter. If the real figure is a lot less, then a lot of people who have either realized political or financial gain from the Holocaust allegations would have a lot to answer for.

reply to post by Muckster


But you're not addressing the core issue here. I'm not saying that it's okay that Hitler held Jews in camps just because Roosevelt did basically the same thing with the Japanese. I'm simply asking how it's different? Neither side was in the right, but when the topic of ww2 comes up it's always about Hitler killing the Jews. We never talk about the dead Japanese. We never talk about the alliance with Stalin who was a monster in his own right. We never talk about the British King meeting with Hitler multiple times. I just want to know why the truth is being stretched. Nobody here wants to address the lamp shade lies or gas chambgers. And I'm not sitting here saying what Hitler did was right, but the why stretch the truth? Why is the subject itself so taboo? Why is it that the second that you start asking questions you get called a denier or a bigot/racist? Why the hostility over the topic? To me it seems like some people don't want the history to be looked into further than what has been written in the history books.

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by blueorder

 

yeah, never met a racist non white....

Do you have the capacity to argue/discuss like a grown up or are you going to continue with single line irrelevant ramblings??

I was making a point using a real life example from my own past!!! Never once did i say that "non whites" cannot be racist.

Please... either state you point clearly or say nothing at all...

I welcome you conceding this point, progress my brother

reply to post by Lannister

But you're not addressing the core issue here. I'm not saying that it's okay that Hitler held Jews in camps just because Roosevelt did basically the same thing with the Japanese. I'm simply asking how it's different? Neither side was in the right, but when the topic of ww2 comes up it's always about Hitler killing the Jews. We never talk about the dead Japanese. We never talk about the alliance with Stalin who was a monster in his own right. We never talk about the British King meeting with Hitler multiple times. I just want to know why the truth is being stretched. Nobody here wants to address the lamp shade lies or gas chambgers. And I'm not sitting here saying what Hitler did was right, but the why stretch the truth? Why is the subject itself so taboo? Why is it that the second that you start asking questions you get called a denier or a bigot/racist? Why the hostility over the topic? To me it seems like some people don't want the history to be looked into further than what has been written in the history books.

I hope you don’t think that i'm accusing you of being a racist because i honestly am not. You have not said anything to make me think that and you seem to be someone who is just seeking historic truth and asking difficult questions. But like i mentioned previously, there are many (not you) who start off sounding innocent but as the discussion progress's it start to become evident that they have an agenda.

I think you are right about the allies. They committed many crimes from the deliberate bombing of civilians to the dropping of the second nuclear bomb (which there was absolutely no excuse for other than to test two different types of bomb)

To be honest i don’t know why you don’t start a separate thread on it... I would definitely partake in it

But the crux of this thread was regarding Hitler protecting a Jewish WW1 veteran, and asking the question how could he hate Jews if he did this?

I have given numerous examples of how people often enlist the very people they claim to hate to help them achieve their goals. I still stick by my original assessment... Hitler protecting a few chosen Jews does not in any way lesson the accusations against him.

Peace

reply to post by bjarneorn

That specific racist experience you have, has nothing at all to do with Germany. Except in American movies.

What are you talking about? The OP was basically saying that Hitler couldn’t have hated Jews if he spared one from death. I was given an example of how illogical and stupid racism can be and how even racist can adopt surface friendships with the very people they claim to hate.

First, Hitler is by all counts, jewish on one side. Secondly, the jews are the same kind of white scum, the germans are. Thirdly, Germans are not blonde ... that is probably the biggest racist remark ever made. If you want to hear a good old description of the "average" German, both before and after the war ... then go and take a look at your "average" jewish person ... they're pretty much the same. And it's "not" big nose that makes jews distinct.

Again... what are you talking about...???

White scum? Sorry but you are obviously racist and have a problem with white people... that makes you an ignorant vile bigot.

But then you go on to say that the biggest racist remark you have ever heard is saying that "Germans are not blonde"

What? You think thats more racist than saying white scum??

And finally, apart from Hollywood made history books ... the germans hated Jews, for the same reason Americans hate bankers today. After WWI, Britain and France, played a very dirty trick on German that caused tens of thousands of Germans (if not hundreds of thousands) to die from starvation. History states, that at a certain time, people of Germany had to drive truckloads of money around to buy stuff ... and that isn't even exageration. The average German was made to believe that the "Jews" were to blame ...

Point being?

Thirdly, although I agree that most of the blonde northern Europeans are dumb as nuts. They're historically judged dumb, more for the reason of them being not racist, than being racist. The racist "blonde" personality, that you are referring to ... is actually the "english" and the "danish", and the german population.

Most blonde northern Europeans are dumb as nuts??? Again racist drivel...

Sorry but you go accusing an entire race of being dumb and scum but you cant even string a sensible argument together... I cant even work out what point you are trying to make... confused ramblings... typical trait of an ignorant bigot!

reply to post by blueorder

I welcome you conceding this point, progress my brother

How can i have conceded anything i haven’t changed my view?

Progress towards what?

You seem to be making lots of judgements and assumptions with very little data or fact to base them upon.

I agree that this thread has gotten off topic. The question is, did Hitler really hate all jews? The answer may not be as simple as many would think. If you listen to Hitler's speeches during the election campaigns, he talks about the evil international jewish bankers who he quite correctly blamed for pushing the US into WW1 and for pushing for the humiliating terms of the Versailles Treaty. After getting elected to power, Hitler focused on jewish influence within Germany. It's a documented fact that most of the German banks, newspapers and theaters were owned and run by jews. Most of the lawyers and judges were jews. This in a country where the jewish population was less than 1%. Given that Germans were losing their homes during the Depression to jewish-owned banks, is it any wonder that there was resentment towards jews during the 20's and 30's? Prior to the war, Hitler wanted to deport the jews and his government made a deal with zionists so that jews would be allowed to leave Germany AND take all their wealth with them IF a) they used that wealth to buy German industrial and agricultural machinery and supplies and b) if they went to Palestine. The Nazis even allowed the zionists to set up training camps in Germany so that jews emigrating to Palestine could be trained as farmers, etc.

When life for German jews got really difficult (but prior to concentration camps), a leading jewish businessman got the Nazis to agree to allow all German jews to leave Germany(not just for Palestine but to go any where in the world) in exchange for 2 million German Reichmarks. This worked out to approx. 8 reichmarks per jew. Not a huge amount. This jew then appealed to the leader of the World Jewish Congress and asked for his organization's help in raising the money and was refused. The reason given was that European jews had to be allowed to suffer the consequences of not emigrating to Palestine so that they would learn that a jewish homeland was the only safe place for jews. This is all documented fact and in fact some Israelis are so upset about the pre-war collaboration and the refusal to ransom the German jews that they're accusing those zionists of being partially responsible for the Holocaust too.

So the evidence points to Hitler wanting to evict the jews from Germany, which would have been the 48th time in that last 1,000 years that jews had been evicted wholesale from a country.
historical expulsion of jews
I am of the opinion that his rhetoric became the rallying cry for the minority that not only hated all jews with a passion but hated them enough to want to kill them. Himmler apparently was like that and he filled his SS with the same kind of mentality.

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by blueorder

 

I welcome you conceding this point, progress my brother

How can i have conceded anything i haven’t changed my view?

Progress towards what?

You seem to be making lots of judgements and assumptions with very little data or fact to base them upon.

My facts are many and my judgements learned, I wish you no harm brother, but I am glad to have broadened your horizons tonight

reply to post by blueorder




ok whatever... i'm not playing anymore

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by blueorder

 

ok whatever... i'm not playing anymore

Interesting, though that doesn't really help at all to justify what he and the Nazi's did in my opinion.