It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Republican Horrified to Discover that Christianity is Not the Only Religion

page: 8
34
<< 5  6  7    9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by projectvxn
 


Vastly moral force? I guess that depends on your morals. I believe that humans are moral beings to begin with and have no need of a man made church to tell them right or wrong.

CJ


I think you are deliberately trying to misconstrue what I am saying. Morality as we understand it today didn't just happen. The concepts had to be identified and developed over time. There was a time when stoning people to death was seen as a moral punishment for immoral acts. While the practice continues in some enclaves of society the vast moral consensus has rejected it. Religion has solidified so much of the philosophical bedrock that we stand on today. That is a fact that should not be written off.




posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 12:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by sirhumperdink
 


Interestingly enough, I've been considered both a godless heathen and a devout Christian. Neither is the case.

Let me explain what I mean by religion standing in the way of statist nihilism.

Religion, when studied for its philosophical values, establishes concepts like authorities above the level of man(and therefore government) , a personal salvation of both the person and the soul(something at odds with collectivist political ideology) , and a reliance on these authorities above any construct of man. When you strip away the extremists and governments who use religion to their own ends, you are left with a mighty and vastly.moral force in the world that should not be ignored or written off simply because one doesn't like the "fairy-tale "
edit on 8-7-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)


So you are fully supportive of Islam and practicing Muslims?
Just making sure you're not twiting ideas and showing any bias or anything....



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 12:12 PM
link   
reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


I'm fully supportive of any faith that brings people closer to God.

What I am not supportive of is extremism, terrorism, or any other form of abuse based on a faulty and dated moral compass. This goes for all Abrahamic Faiths.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 12:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by projectvxn

I think you are deliberately trying to misconstrue what I am saying. Morality as we understand it today didn't just happen. The concepts had to be identified and developed over time. There was a time when stoning people to death was seen as a moral punishment for immoral acts. While the practice continues in some enclaves of society the vast moral consensus has rejected it. Religion has solidified so much of the philosophical bedrock that we stand on today. That is a fact that should not be written off.


Most laws and government ideas are based on the Hamarabbi Code as opposed to any religious text.
en.wikipedia.org...

As far as your concepts, they are religions that formed governments, not governments that formed religions.

Look at the Vatican, the best example there is. It is a country in itself, governed by religion. The "first Christians" in fact.

Of course anyone who is a fundamentalist evangelical doesn't realize that they are Protestant and Protestants came from Catholics and Catholics came from the Disciples and the Disciples followed Christ, who was Jewish which is an Abrahamic religion that also includes Muslims that all go back to the theory of creationism and the garden of Eden.... but I digress...

Our government is not based on the Bible nor were our founders Christians. They used concepts of their time and made mention of God because they had ust broken away from a Theological based government and religion is part of what shaped society, that didn't mean they were religious. Our government, like many others, is based on the Hamarabbi code just like the "laws" in the Bible are.

Until people realize that the bible is a book written by men based on the culture of their time instead of hand written by God himself, we're going to have problems like this. It doesn't make you less of a Christian to see the bible for what it truely is. It's a great book, the all time bestseller and gives a great decription of how our ancestors interacted with their belief, but it's not a word for word utterance from the mouth of God. God doesn't tell us to go out and conquer others or to shove our faith down their throats.

The radical right wing Christians are terrorists. They are Christian terrorists EXACTLY like the Islamic terrorists. They are cut from the same cloth and do not represent Christianity any more than the Islamic terrorists represent Islam.

My job, as a Christian, is to apply God's will and laws to MY life and what I do, not what others do. It's not my place to judge others and tell them they have to do this and this and this or they'll "burn in hell". That's God's job, not mine. If they want to learn about what I believe, then I share it with them, but don't force it down their throats.

If the laws in our country permitted it, the radical right wing christians would be doing the exact same thing the radical islamic terrorists do. IMO, they're jealous they don't get to do the same thing and that's why they get so upset about it. The radical extremists have no morality. Those who shout the loudest about morality have no clue what morality is. They don't want morality, they want things to be done "their way", nothing more. If not for the laws we have, they would be identical to the Islamic terrorists they shout so loudly about.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 12:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by projectvxn
 


Vastly moral force? I guess that depends on your morals. I believe that humans are moral beings to begin with and have no need of a man made church to tell them right or wrong.

CJ


I think you are deliberately trying to misconstrue what I am saying. Morality as we understand it today didn't just happen. The concepts had to be identified and developed over time. There was a time when stoning people to death was seen as a moral punishment for immoral acts. While the practice continues in some enclaves of society the vast moral consensus has rejected it. Religion has solidified so much of the philosophical bedrock that we stand on today. That is a fact that should not be written off.


Before the bible, people were moral enough to realize the immoral act. The only thing that has changed is instead of stoning people, we now either shoot, hang, electrocute or inject them with poison. And that is here in the US. Is the methodolgy more moral when the outcome is the same?

CJ



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 12:49 PM
link   
reply to post by ColoradoJens
 


And yet 60% of the US population is against the death penalty.

Moral change, like any other kind of transcendent thought and concept, takes time to develop, spread, and be realized as a norm.

Again you engage in misconstrued notions of what I'm trying to say. Morality develops over time. The concept of morality has changed and evolved quite a bit, and many of the things that were thought to be moral even a century ago are seen as barbaric today. If your argument is that I'm saying that morality didn't exist before the Bible, you would be wrong. I'm saying that the philosophical construct of faiths around the world have been the bed rock of our moral and ethical understanding today. You should read the work of St. Thomas Aquinas on the concept of Ethics and Natural Law. It's a real eye opener.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 12:53 PM
link   
reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


Abraham was a Sumerian. He was probably very familiar with these concepts and as such through him and others like him the Code was disseminated and it evolved throughout time. Akkadian, and Sumerian cultures shared many of the same basic principles of societal constructs as the Babylonians.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 02:05 PM
link   
So, Ms. Hodges, you and other Republicans sell vouchers to voters as a way for poor people to escape their horrid public schools. What you really, really mean is that you want your children to be able to attend a Christian religious school, paid for with govt tax dollars.

The John Birchers, those right wing reactionaries helped founded by the senior Koch, would also like to end public schools, because public schools, for decades viewed by them as the breeding ground for Communists, are now messing with your children's' minds and morals, positively Satanic.

And public school tax dollars (as have been with the military budget) are seen as the prize in the pinata, if only businesses (American and inter/multi national) beat up on them and convince voters they can do a better job with privatization, businesses running schools with public dollars.

Californians figured out in 1993 by voting down a school voucher ballot initiative, that tax dollars could go to Asatru followers and white supremacist run schools. BTW John Walton (of WalMart fame) was a major contributor to this initiative and other voucher ballot measures.

Well, Ms. Hodges, Sinclair Lewis may not have said "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross", but he did write, "But he saw too that in America the struggle was befogged by the fact that the worst Fascists were they who disowned the word 'Fascism' and preached enslavement to Capitalism under the style of Constitutional and Traditional Native American Liberty." Sound familiar to ya?

and let's be clear on fascism..."Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice".

Anyway, Ms. Hodges, now a Asatru White Supremacist might start a school in your state with govt money, but, heck, maybe to you that's preferable to all those Muslim schools waiting to open.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 04:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by ColoradoJens

Originally posted by Alxandro
Hey look,
..another "Let's forget about diversity and anti bullying measures and bully a Christian" thread.


Winner for the most non sensical post in the thread. You don't like facts, do you?

CJ


Actually, I don't like misleading thread titles.

Facts?
Just because you intentionally take things out of context to conveniently pad your opinion and further your disdain for Christians, doesn't make it factual.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 05:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by projectvxn
 


Vastly moral force? I guess that depends on your morals. I believe that humans are moral beings to begin with and have no need of a man made church to tell them right or wrong.

CJ


I think you are deliberately trying to misconstrue what I am saying. Morality as we understand it today didn't just happen. The concepts had to be identified and developed over time. There was a time when stoning people to death was seen as a moral punishment for immoral acts. While the practice continues in some enclaves of society the vast moral consensus has rejected it. Religion has solidified so much of the philosophical bedrock that we stand on today. That is a fact that should not be written off.


i can agree with that
religion has been fundamental in the development of humanity however i believe many people (maybe not everyone) have developed beyond the point of needing religious stories to guide them and are empathetic and capable of understanding why something is moral or immoral regardless of what any book or man in robes has to say about it and the same could be said about philosophy (in fact one could argue the rejection of religion at least at some point in a persons life is paramount to furthering philosophical thought)

working stone was the foundation of our technology today and its important to understand stonework however not many people would argue that we should all be working stone instead of developing new and better technology
edit on 8-7-2012 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-7-2012 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 05:05 PM
link   
reply to post by sirhumperdink
 


You'll get no argument from me.

I think we have found an understanding.

A rare moment in ATS history lol.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 07:06 AM
link   

Originally posted by Alxandro

Originally posted by ColoradoJens

Originally posted by Alxandro
Hey look,
..another "Let's forget about diversity and anti bullying measures and bully a Christian" thread.


Winner for the most non sensical post in the thread. You don't like facts, do you?

CJ


Actually, I don't like misleading thread titles.

Facts?
Just because you intentionally take things out of context to conveniently pad your opinion and further your disdain for Christians, doesn't make it factual.


You could always look like little more than an angry ass
or you could share with the class the huge glaring hole you found in this story.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 07:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by ColoradoJens
 


And yet 60% of the US population is against the death penalty.


Yet 2000 years after that pesky book comes around it is still practiced.
That is a long slow change.

I wonder just what population of the US actually is Christian.
By that I do mean the Christians I know that do not include Catholics or Mormons and reject other so called Christian religions. I wonder how many of those there are. I want to guess somewhere between 0 and 40%.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 07:12 AM
link   

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by MACRIP
 


God didn't commit those crimes we did. We have a choice.

By the way, the Inquisition, the Crusades? All a product of a government run religion.


Didn't both events enjoy great support from the Vatican?
If the Vatican tells a king to burn his witches and approves when he does, how is that government run religion?



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:52 PM
link   
reply to post by habitforming
 


I just dont understand why you keep refering to Christianity when I am referring to God. Secondly if you want a history lesson, tell me who was it, by edict, that created the Catholic Church?

And from that point forward how many Popes were political appointees by Rome, by France?
edit on 9-7-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 04:16 PM
link   
reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


Social norms were that everyone went to church every Sunday regardless. That list was not a list of what any of them "believed" it was a list of their affiliations. I dont care if they believed in Gilgamesh the giant, they walked into that christian church every Sunday and that was how they were identified.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 04:28 PM
link   
reply to post by projectvxn
 


Women didnt get the vote in this country until 1920. Thats all women.
I didnt say women didnt have a role to play in the founding of our country, I am sure they did. I am also sure that many who did got no credit for it and as far as making law or laying down policy they had zero role except to influence their husbands who could vote.
Take off the rose colored glasses. We still have a long way to go before equality is really equal.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 04:33 PM
link   
reply to post by karen61057
 


You must have stopped reading at the first sentence.

Women who could vote in country during the mid 1700s to the early 1800s were property owners. Many of whom inherited property from family or the death of their husbands. The women of that day were Federalist voters. Again, it wasn't until the anti-federalists got into power that their right to vote was quashed and it remained so for another 115 years.

You need to do more research.
edit on 9-7-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 04:36 PM
link   
reply to post by projectvxn
 


In those days there was a lot more God and a lot less science. That view would not and should not work today.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 04:38 PM
link   
reply to post by LeJimster
 


Masons are not a religious affiliation. Its a fraternity.

edit on 9-7-2012 by karen61057 because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
34
<< 5  6  7    9 >>

log in

join