Originally posted by JoshNorton
All the power lies in the eyes of the beholder...

And as far as network dude is concerned, power lies with the beerholder and I have all of them.

Originally posted by autowrench
If you are assailed with the same symbol over and over again, on TV, signs, posters, advertising, tee shirts, purses, that symbol will be in your mind solid.

Which means all of jack, followed closely by $#!+.

This is how advertising works, after all, repetitive input. The Cell Phone is a good example of this. People took to them like flies to honey, now everyone has one glued to their ear.

But that's not mind control at all. I don't own a cell phone because an advertiser told me I needed one. I got it because it was useful to have. My first was an old Nokia that didn't really have any additional functionality other than being a phone. My second was a Blackberry, bought because I researched the features I needed, not because I EVER saw a Blackberry ad on TV. My 3rd (and current) is an iPhone. Again, not because of the advertising, but because I've owned only Apple computers since 1983, and I knew they were doing things right (again).

I can't think of a single product that I regularly see ads for that I actually purchase because of the ads. There's nothing informative about advertising for toilet paper or soda that's going to trump my own personal experience with toilet paper or soda.

So again, where's the mind control?

Originally posted by Saurus

Why, then, do Christians use a Cross when its original meaning predates Christ by thousands of years and was originally used by pagans in their rituals in the ancient faiths?

People use the same symbols for different things. The Nazis used the Hindu Hooked Cross for their own symbolism. Jesus never used any cross.Early Christians used the Egyptian ankh as symbol of their faith, because it already had the meaning of "eternal life". They were not fixated with Jesus being hung up on the cross of wood. Rather, they were fixated on what happened after that, the resurrected Jesus who demonstrated by his resurrection that he had this thing called "eternal life." But, later Christians changed the focus of the message, and instead began to use the cross that symbolized one had to crucify the flesh, to eliminate the evil passions, in order to follow Jesus and obtain that eternal life. But, Jesus himself, never said anyone had to "do" any such thing. He'd done it, and paid the price, so that we didn't have to crucify ourselves anymore, to get salvation. Just be yourself, and with faith, salvation and eternal life are our inheritance automatically, by the grace of God, and not by any work or effort on our part to get there. No man has the power to "save himself", to overcome this world of passions and evil, by trying hard in some special way. That's why I'm amused when I hear things like "make good men better", because God made men, some are good, some are evil, and nothing changes that design. No work, ritual, or performance of labor, makes men better. They are who they are, and whatever changes we imagine we see, is just the effect of putting the same man into a different environment, and watching him do different things. But, inside, there's the same intent, the same motivations, the same constructed soul acting out that new drama.

Haha!! This is a funny thread.

People are always talking about symbols and illuminati mind control. Blah!!

That is like saying ''I see letters everywhere!!''. Because, well, it is true. I see letters on the screen and in newsprint and on road signs. Holy cow!! It is the letters!! The LETTERS!!!

Silly.

@Josh and CIAGypsy: I suspect you are more followers of modern magick where the actual creation of a sigil, and charging it, is where all of the power of the symbol exists.

However, never forget that all of the Moderns, such as Spare, have their origins in older beliefs such as Agrippa et al. who believed that there was inherent power in certain symbols, (and consequently, that if you drew a symbol wrongly, it would not have any power - ie. right and wrong symbols).

While I am much more predisposed to the modern way of thinking, (and personally I agree with both of you), I never totally discount the possibility that they may have been right to some extent. A philosophy founded on a lie cannot be right. If there is any truth in Spare's work, then it's origins must have had some truth too.

Originally posted by Saurus
However, never forget that all of the Moderns, such as Spare, have their origins in older beliefs such as Agrippa et al. who believed that there was inherent power in certain symbols, (and consequently, that if you drew a symbol wrongly, it would not have any power - ie. right and wrong symbols).

The argument goes back to Aristotle and Plato. When I say "tree", you picture something in your mind that becomes the archetypal "tree" to you. The one in your imagination is different than the one in my imagination. Thus, no universally agreed upon "correct" symbol for a tree-like thing.