Skinwalker Ranch Discussion

This is a response to the book Hunt For the Skinwalker which spurred from last week's ATS Live interview with George Knapp. This interview had me on the edge of my seat the entire duration and left me wanting more, so I purchased the book and absolutely devoured it.

Hunt For the Skinwalker is a mind-bending account of the strange happenings on Skinwalker Ranch. The book is incredibly thorough, presenting many different ways of looking at the phenomenon. The scope of happenings at the ranch range from odd to down right disturbing.

This book will force you to wrap your mind around all types of ideas. At different points in reading the book I found myself thinking "Well that's paranormal, no doubt" and then the next page I would think "Well that is extraterrestrial no doubt"...and so on to other dimensions and military secret ops.

The book delves into other "hot spots" for this kind of activity, touching on Dulce and other well-known spots. The book explains the beliefs of the Navajo in the area and the findings of the research team assigned to the ranch.


With that little outline said, the book left me just as curious and confused as I was when I started reading it!

While the research team did note several strange happenings, most of the incidents seemed to happen while they were absent from the ranch. I felt the truly disturbing went on before the team got there. Playing the skeptic here it strikes me odd that in all the time the family went through this horrible ordeal there was no photographic or film evidence of much that happened. I say this realizing that this type of equipment could very well fail considering the circumstances.

The disappearance and movement of objects could be paranormal, or it could be described as a time slip by some. The UFO's could be explained by ET presence or by military tests. What better place to throw a bunch of strange objects and creatures than a ranch surrounded by deeply held folklore of this type of thing.

The oddest part of it all for me was the instructions from the previous owners to never dig. Maybe I missed it but I didn't see much in the way of trying to find out what lies beneath the ranch.

I found myself torn at the end. The family involved seems credible and like very good people who wouldn't "fake" such things, and some of the things spotted by the research team would be hard to fake. The stories made my skin crawl and god knows if I had experienced those things I would be very angry if someone questioned my integrity after coming out about it.

In summation I believe that some very strange things indeed have happened to this family, and highly doubt it to be a hoax. What is it then? Well I am at a loss for any kind of explanation or even theory to explain that. I had never heard of the ranch until the interview with George Knapp so I am admittedly new to this topic, I wanted to open this up for discussion to hear everyone's ideas and theories on the topic.

I find the ranch a fascinating topic.

That being said, I find it odd that with all the activity supposedly happening there, not a shred of video proof has emerged.

reply to post by ValentineWiggin
I read the book and tracked down all the interviews with Colm Kelleher, George Knapp and one by Jacques Vallee. Each is, or was, associated with what used to be called NIDS and has become BASS. They've all been tied to non-disclosure agreements.

For a while, the stories really had my attention and I have to admit to taking them at face value. In other words, I pretty much believed it all.

What with NASA scientists, microbiologists and PhDs on board - the argument to authority had me swayed. I also have a fair amount of trust in George Knapp and that played a part too.

As some already know, I'm a sceptical individual and reasonably well-read. This slowly made me doubt the contents of the stories and I don't think they hold up to critical thinking. Since then, I doubt that all these incidents really occurred and suspect there was another reason for creating the legends of the Skinwalker Ranch.

On the whole, they packed way too many elements of mythology, ufology and cryptozoology into the narrative. Dog-faced men in trench-coats, evil blue orbs, portal monsters, flying saucers, disembodied voices and malevolence. In interviews, Kelleher went so far as to include the suggestion of velociraptors - dinosaurs no less with three-toed tracks in snow. Rumours persisted of black SUVs and Army vehicles at the Sherman Ranch and, of course, animal mutilations. We had the unforgettable account of a Predator-style (invisible) entity destroying the cameras on the masts.

Essentially, they didn't leave anything out beyond the alien abduction narrative. What they did leave out was anything strongly evidential and that was put down to the paranormal's ability to be self-falsifying.

I'm not knocking anyone who believes it was real, it just doesn't work for me.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by ValentineWiggin

 

I read the book and tracked down all the interviews with Colm Kelleher, George Knapp and one by Jacques Vallee. Each is, or was, associated with what used to be called NIDS and has become BASS. They've all been tied to non-disclosure agreements.

Can you explain the non-disclosure agreements to me? I'm a bit ignorant on what that means exactly. Thank you.

reply to post by ValentineWiggin


I was fascinated by the book too! Very, very strange phenomenon there. I don't remember the "never dig" instructions, but I agree, it would be very interesting to know what might be unearthed there. I thought the most disturbing parts were the cattle mutilations and the thing that came out of the portal, especially when the hippie guy went there thinking he was going to have a spiritual moment and the thing ran up and scared him out of his wits. I would love to learn more about that place. I lean toward the multidimensional/extraterrestrial explanation, but that doesn't explain the cattle mutilations. And what about the wierd trailer shaped thing?

Have you read Ryan Buell's "Paranormal State" book? He spends some time going into the Mothman Prophecies and John Keel's theories about extraterrestrials, and he describes visiting the town and doing an investigation of the closed military base where lots of strange things occurred. He gives a lot of additional history and talked with the townspeople about other things that happened in the area, besides Mothman, and provides some possible explanations for some of the phenomenon, such as a certain species of large water bird that live in that area. Much of the phenomenon seem quite similar to some of the things that are described in the "Skinwalker Ranch" book, including a relationship to Native American history, there are mounds throughout the area. I read it after I read "Skinwalker Ranch" and picked up on the similarites.

I missed the interview - will have to go see if the broadcasts are available as podcasts afterwards... Thanks for bringing this up!

reply to post by ValentineWiggin
It's a binding legal contract that limits the details of what they are allowed to talk about. It can be interpreted that they must remain within a certain script.

It's standard procedure for anyone associated with Mr Bigelow. From MUFON directors to guys like Jacques Vallee - if you want to do business or take part in his ufological pursuits - you have to sign a contract promising silence.

Some people regard this as sinister, but it could be for any number of reasons beginning with simple privacy and business motivations.

ETA - sorry, I should have given a source or two...
Non-disclosure contracts/ agreements

Bigelow Aerospace non-disclosure contracts (BBC)

Bigelow - 'UFO Shadow Man'

BAASS, MUFON and non-disclosure agreements

I read the book and concur, it was a miscellaneous conglomeration of WTFs??

I think the point of the book was to relate their conclusion that somehow all these seemingly random unrelated phenomenon are, in fact, somehow related. How? They haven't a clue.

I must also confess that I read the book from a Christian perspective, insomuch as the word "Christian" meaning my belief in Jesus as to Who He says He was, is and will be, and what He actually came to teach us and doing my best to live according to those teachings even though I am flawed and thus prone to failure, not insomuch as someone who keeps a pew warm on Sunday mornings and has an inner conversation with myself as to who has the tackiest hair-do or outfit, ya dig?

Having said that, I personally believe that most of the reported phenomenon of high-strangeness by the researchers did actually occur and I personally believe that most of this seemingly unrelated phenomenon does, in fact, stem from the same source. Meaning, the phenomenon itself may not be "related" per se, but the source of the incidents is or are related, IMO.
I believe that the events that occured at this ranch were so bizarre and random because there were too many individuals involved in the area which the events took place. The source is deception with the sole purpose of subterfuge, thus the deception is usually tailor fit to the person having the experience, thus the experiences are almost entirely subjective.
So, my perception of the miscellaneous and non-cohesive nature of what was experienced at the ranch was due to the source having to accomodate the differing variables encountered when dealing with individual personalities.
People that considered themselves educated and technological were likely more inclined to perceive UFO phenomenon.
People that lent more creedence to Native American folklore witnessed the skinwalker man/dog/bigfoot/whatever.
People who were more likely to respond to paranormal &/or unseen spooky activity encountered exactly that.
People who more inclined to a clinical perspective and considered themselves "reasonable" and "level-headed" experienced the cattle mutilation.
Some of the individuals experienced more than one, or all of these phenomenon perhaps because they were more inclined to be affected by them, or perhaps because the source of the deception was simply fishing their receptivity or simply toying with them.

Regardless, by the end of the book it should be noted that most of the activity had ceased. This would appear to me that the source either does not like too much attention drawn to it lest it give away too many clues and be figured out for what it really is or had fulfilled its task to confuse and deceive and the regular occurrance of phenomenon was no longer necessary.

. . . the initial conversation between Vallee and Major Murphy at length. Then he posed a question that, obvious as it seems, had not really occurred to me:

“What makes you think that UFOs are a scientific problem?”

I replied with something to the effect that a problem was only scientific in the way it was approached, but he would have none of that, and he began lecturing me. First, he said, science had certain rules. For example, it has to assume that the phenomenon it is observing is natural in origin rather than artificial and possibly biased. Now, the UFO phenomenon could be controlled by alien beings. “If it is,” added the Major, “then the study of it doesn’t belong in science. It belongs in Intelligence.” Meaning counterespionage. And that, he pointed out, was his domain.

“Now, in the field of counterespionage, the rules are completely different.” He drew a simple diagram in my notebook. “You are a scientist. In science there is no concept of the ‘price’ of information. Suppose I gave you 95 per cent of the data concerning a phenomenon. You’re happy because you know 95 per cent of the phenomenon. Not so in Intelligence. If I get 95 per cent of the data, I know this is the ‘cheap’ part of the information. I still need the other 5 per cent, but I will have to pay a much higher price to get it. You see, Hitler had 95 per cent of the information about the landing in Normandy. But he had the wrong 95 percent!”

“Are you saying that the UFO data we use to compile statistics and to find patterns with computers are useless?” I asked. “Might we be spinning our magnetic tapes endlessly discovering spurious laws?”

“It all depends on how the team on the other side thinks. If they know what they’re doing, there will be so many cutouts between you and them that you won’t have the slightest chance of tracing your way to the truth. Not by following up sightings and throwing them into a computer. They will keep feeding you the information they want you to process. What is the only source of data about the UFO phenomenon? It is the UFOs themselves!”

Some things were beginning to make a lot of sense. “If you’re right, what can I do? It seems that research on the phenomenon is hopeless, then. I might as well dump my computer into a river.”

“Not necessarily, but you should try a different approach. First you should work entirely outside of the organized UFO groups; they are infiltrated by the same official agencies they are trying to influence, and they propagate any rumor anyone wants to have circulated. In Intelligence circles, people like that are historical necessities. We call them ‘useful idiots.’ When you’ve worked long enough for Uncle Sam, you know he is involved in a lot of strange things. The data these groups get are biased at the source, but they play a useful role.

“Second, you should look for the irrational, the bizarre, the elements that do not fit…Have you ever felt that you were getting close to something that didn’t seem to fit any rational pattern, yet gave you a strong impression that it was significant?”

I read this book this evening. I found this quote EXTREMELY interesting.

Of course it's obvious why a military man would consider the phenomena described in the book as the purview of the Intelligence community. Intel is a big part of their business, but it seems to me the Major is TOO eager to wrest the reins from science.

Definitely some HIGH STRANGENESS going on here and it's not all in the desert.