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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
The report I cited was dated September 6, 2005. Obama was sworn in on January 20, 2009. You do the math.
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
As to the rest of it, we've had this discussion and to continue it will not get either of us any further.
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Seems that participation was entirely your call.
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
ok...quick edit...I gotta ask...just when did Mitt stop being a SOCIALIST?edit on 8-7-2012 by JohnnyCanuck because: ...just because...ok?
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Originally posted by Hope4peace
Progressive attitude? Pointing guns? You're out in left field...I was merely making a statement about the lack of compassion I'm seeing in some of the posts.
Please explain this "pointing of guns" tactic that you feel would take place.
And to be compassionate you must give up your rights and your free will?...
People can, and are compassionate without being FORCED by people like you or any government...
BTW, you must be very compassionate having everyone be FORCED by the government to pay for the murders of human babies... Yeah very "compassionate" indeed...
edit on 8-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Hope4peace
You are out in left field too. Love how you speculate what my views are....you have no clue. Now....as for your comment on abortion, I would be more than happy to debate that with you if you'd like
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Originally posted by Hope4peace
You are out in left field too. Love how you speculate what my views are....you have no clue. Now....as for your comment on abortion, I would be more than happy to debate that with you if you'd like
I can only judge what you write, and that's what I did.
As to abortion, do you think it is ok to FORCE strangers to pay for the abortion of other people?
Now, you seem to equate people not wanting to pay for the healthcare of others as "those people are not compassionate" and in fact it is YOU who is "out in the left field"...
Obamacare is not about compasison, and forcing people to do the will of others or the government has NOTHING to do with "compassion"...
edit on 8-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by grahag
Originally posted by Hope4peace
Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by matth
You see, the American culture used to believe that NOTHING is free and that only hard work pays. Socialism has done a great deal to erode that once universal belief and led to an entitlement culture. We would like to see our libertarian roots reinvigorated so that each INDIVIDUAL can live up to their potential, on their own merits.
Sincerely,
Kozmo
Why are there so many Americans out there with this mentality? What about the naturally born weak? The less fortunate? Those born with disabilities? Not everyones "potential" is strong enough to make it in "your" kind of world...which seems to be "survival of the fittest". We are not animals, we are humans and there needs to be more compassion out there for the less fortunate. Nobody wants to help out their neighbor in a sense....it's every man for himself. Your idea of "hard work" might vary greatly to someone that puts in many hours bagging groceries because they were in a car accident growing up and lost the mental ability to get that higher education so they can make higher earnings therefore being able to afford insurance. Not all companies privide health insurance these days. Everyone deserves affordable health care.
Because those kind of people see themselves as "the fit", until they're not. Then they see themselves as "the victim".
Selfishness is the reason. These people think they got where they're at all by themselves without any help. It's why I get such a sense of schadenfreude when I see them complain about being the victim. I know it's immature, but Karma is a 100 ton train it's amazing to watch it in action.
Selfishness is the reason for most of the world's problems. People aren't willing to give up a little of what they have so that everyone can have it better. I laugh even harder when they call themselves Christians. In any case, we'd all be better off if we all just shared the burdens.
Originally posted by Hope4peace
No, I do not think that anyone should be forced to pay for others health care or for them to get an abortion. I also don't think it should be up to the government to decide if abortion should be allowed or not.
I never said I was for Obamacare, you assumed that, maybe because I said that everyone has the right to affordable healthcare?
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Again, if the Bush administration helped the Iraqi government decide what healthcare to implement they would have chosen the old U.S. system...not the Obamacare system... You don't do math real well do you?
Article 31:
First: Every citizen has the right to health care. The State shall maintain public health and provide the means of prevention and treatment by building different types of hospitals and health institutions.
Second: Individuals and entities have the right to build hospitals, clinics, or private health care centers under the supervision of the State, and this shall be regulated by law. www.uniraq.org...
No, it's because it would be a waste of my time. Yours, too...
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
As to the rest of it, we've had this discussion and to continue it will not get either of us any further.
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Of course you don't because you have no real argument except to use ad hominem, and strawman arguments...
Originally posted by Hope4peace
Originally posted by Masterjaden
Originally posted by Hope4peace
Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by matth
You see, the American culture used to believe that NOTHING is free and that only hard work pays. Socialism has done a great deal to erode that once universal belief and led to an entitlement culture. We would like to see our libertarian roots reinvigorated so that each INDIVIDUAL can live up to their potential, on their own merits.
Sincerely,
Kozmo
Why are there so many Americans out there with this mentality? What about the naturally born weak? The less fortunate? Those born with disabilities? Not everyones "potential" is strong enough to make it in "your" kind of world...which seems to be "survival of the fittest". We are not animals, we are humans and there needs to be more compassion out there for the less fortunate. Nobody wants to help out their neighbor in a sense....it's every man for himself. Your idea of "hard work" might vary greatly to someone that puts in many hours bagging groceries because they were in a car accident growing up and lost the mental ability to get that higher education so they can make higher earnings therefore being able to afford insurance. Not all companies privide health insurance these days. Everyone deserves affordable health care.
That is not the attitude at all...
Our attitude is that helping MUST be the individuals choice...
Even today, the private willing donations help out the poor and down trodden MUCH more than ANY govt program..
MY question is what is with this progressive attitude that you can force me at the point of a gun to help out the less fortunate...
The problem with that tactic is that eventually people grow tired of it and point a gun back...
Jaden
Progressive attitude? Pointing guns? You're out in left field...I was merely making a statement about the lack of compassion I'm seeing in some of the posts.
Please explain this "pointing of guns" tactic that you feel would take place.
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Hmmm...seems to me you folks argue most vociferously against the concept of the Right to health care, yet...
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
So you're quite right...I don't do math real well, but I can read.
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
No, it's because it would be a waste of my time. Yours, too...
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Hmmm...seems to me you folks argue most vociferously against the concept of the Right to health care, yet...
AGAIN you don't seem to understand the difference betwen IRAQ and the UNITED STATES...
Are you that obtuse that you can't understand that people don't want YOUR VIEWS to be shoved down their throats?...
Who the F are you, or anyone else to FORCE Americans, or anyone else to accept your views?...
I don't give a crap about your views and how good you think they are "for everyone". You want your views, we want ours... Is that so hard for you to understand?...
FORCING people to accept your views, no matter how good YOU think they "are for all" has NOTHING to do about compassion...
Universal care is right for Iraq, Thompson saysUnder force of arms, President Bush imposed his particular idea of democracy on a people not asking for it - perhaps a noble undertaking in one context and a criminal violation of international law in another. Bush's followers are proud of the Iraqi Constitution, a model for the world, they told us. So, according to the American political right-wing, government-guaranteed health care is good for Iraqis, but not good for us. Not good for you. They decry even a limited public option for you, but gleefully imposed upon the Iraqis what they label here as "socialism," with much Democratic Party member support. current.com...
Universal care is right for Iraq, Thompson says.
Fresh from a two-day weekend visit to Iraq, the Bush administration's top health-care official defended the $950 million that will be spent to help Iraq establish universal health care. seattletimes.nwsource.com...
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Hmmm...seems to me you folks argue most vociferously against the concept of the Right to health care, yet...
AGAIN you don't seem to understand the difference betwen IRAQ and the UNITED STATES...
Are you that obtuse that you can't understand that people don't want YOUR VIEWS to be shoved down their throats?...
Who the F are you, or anyone else to FORCE Americans, or anyone else to accept your views?...
I don't give a crap about your views and how good you think they are "for everyone". You want your views, we want ours... Is that so hard for you to understand?...
FORCING people to accept your views, no matter how good YOU think they "are for all" has NOTHING to do about compassion...
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
So you're quite right...I don't do math real well, but I can read.
No, you want to FORCE people to accept YOUR views...
Many Americans value FREEDOM more than "being FORCED to do good for all"...
People can be compassionate without accepting YOUR views and without BEING FORCED to do the will of the government or people like you...
We get it, you are a control freak, now how about you leave us alone to decide for OURSELVES?...
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
No, it's because it would be a waste of my time. Yours, too...
I know it is a waste of time, you think you are right because "it is for the good for all", but in fact you are wrong because you are FORCING people to do YOUR will...
Get your head out of your ass and understand that we don't want people, or governments FORCING their views on us...
edit on 9-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by SeekingAlpha
Electric Universe, you've lost the argument. Stop searching for something that you can latch onto to save face. Just move on with your life.
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
I even posted evidence directly from leftwing sources that prove Obama made deals with Big Pharma, and his healthcare is FORCING Americans to do his will, yet you keep claiming "it is for the good of all"...
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
...
for us...not perfectly (what is?) but I have not seen a better system. I sure wouldn't swap it for Romneycare...Obamacare...whatever.
Or anything else I see south of the border. And that, my friend, is the essence of the original post. We cool?
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
...
for us...not perfectly (what is?) but I have not seen a better system. I sure wouldn't swap it for Romneycare...Obamacare...whatever.
Or anything else I see south of the border. And that, my friend, is the essence of the original post. We cool?
Really? so no Canadians NEVER come to the United States to get treatment and operations that your "universal healthcare" doesn't cover?...
Even your system DOESN'T cover everyone...
Originally posted by TheTardis
Originally posted by Hope4peace
Originally posted by Masterjaden
Originally posted by Hope4peace
Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by matth
You see, the American culture used to believe that NOTHING is free and that only hard work pays. Socialism has done a great deal to erode that once universal belief and led to an entitlement culture. We would like to see our libertarian roots reinvigorated so that each INDIVIDUAL can live up to their potential, on their own merits.
Sincerely,
Kozmo
Why are there so many Americans out there with this mentality? What about the naturally born weak? The less fortunate? Those born with disabilities? Not everyones "potential" is strong enough to make it in "your" kind of world...which seems to be "survival of the fittest". We are not animals, we are humans and there needs to be more compassion out there for the less fortunate. Nobody wants to help out their neighbor in a sense....it's every man for himself. Your idea of "hard work" might vary greatly to someone that puts in many hours bagging groceries because they were in a car accident growing up and lost the mental ability to get that higher education so they can make higher earnings therefore being able to afford insurance. Not all companies privide health insurance these days. Everyone deserves affordable health care.
That is not the attitude at all...
Our attitude is that helping MUST be the individuals choice...
Even today, the private willing donations help out the poor and down trodden MUCH more than ANY govt program..
MY question is what is with this progressive attitude that you can force me at the point of a gun to help out the less fortunate...
The problem with that tactic is that eventually people grow tired of it and point a gun back...
Jaden
Progressive attitude? Pointing guns? You're out in left field...I was merely making a statement about the lack of compassion I'm seeing in some of the posts.
Please explain this "pointing of guns" tactic that you feel would take place.
Your confusing things a little. Its not that we have a lack of compassion. It is that we have seen too many people in this country time and time again looking for hand outs. There is a large segment of our population that is content to sit on their butts and wait for someone to help them and the more we give the more they take. It would be different if it were appreciated but its starting to become expected. But that doesnt change the fact that this bill isnt giving anyone health care. They just want to call it that to get votes.
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
...
for us...not perfectly (what is?) but I have not seen a better system. I sure wouldn't swap it for Romneycare...Obamacare...whatever.
Or anything else I see south of the border. And that, my friend, is the essence of the original post. We cool?
Really? so no Canadians NEVER come to the United States to get treatment and operations that your "universal healthcare" doesn't cover?...
Even your system DOESN'T cover everyone...
OK, one mo' time...
Some stuff falls between the cracks
Some stuff is still waiting approval
Some stuff, like elective surgery, gets in line
Some folks jump queues in restaurant line ups, others for healthcare
Some are are paid for by our provincial plans, but expedited by using US facilities
BUT...I pay about $400 annually to the province for health care, above and beyond my regular taxes, When I got prostate cancer, it was cured fast and the technology was cutting edge. It cost me $32...accumulated parking at the oncology centre. I got no beefs...and I got to keep my house.
edit on 9-7-2012 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)