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To My American Friends Re: Healthcare and Elections

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posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
The report I cited was dated September 6, 2005. Obama was sworn in on January 20, 2009. You do the math.


Again, if the Bush administration helped the Iraqi government decide what healthcare to implement they would have chosen the old U.S. system...not the Obamacare system... You don't do math real well do you?


Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
As to the rest of it, we've had this discussion and to continue it will not get either of us any further.


Of course you don't because you have no real argument except to use ad hominem, and strawman arguments...

Obamacare is about the government FORCING Americans to do the will of the socialists in the Obama administration... It has NOTHING to do with helping people...




Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Seems that participation was entirely your call.


Yeah and every time socialists like yourself try to impose your ideas on Americans using ad hominem attacks, calling us "primitive" and other stupid rhetoric trying to impose your views on us...



Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
ok...quick edit...I gotta ask...just when did Mitt stop being a SOCIALIST?
edit on 8-7-2012 by JohnnyCanuck because: ...just because...ok?


I don't give a crap about Mitt... I will continue voting for Ron Paul, and so will many Americans.


edit on 8-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Hope4peace

Progressive attitude? Pointing guns? You're out in left field...I was merely making a statement about the lack of compassion I'm seeing in some of the posts.

Please explain this "pointing of guns" tactic that you feel would take place.


And to be compassionate you must give up your rights and your free will?...

People can, and are compassionate without being FORCED by people like you or any government...

BTW, you must be very compassionate having everyone be FORCED by the government to pay for the murders of human babies... Yeah very "compassionate" indeed...



edit on 8-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)


You are out in left field too. Love how you speculate what my views are....you have no clue. Now....as for your comment on abortion, I would be more than happy to debate that with you if you'd like



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by Hope4peace

You are out in left field too. Love how you speculate what my views are....you have no clue. Now....as for your comment on abortion, I would be more than happy to debate that with you if you'd like


I can only judge what you write, and that's what I did.

As to abortion, do you think it is ok to FORCE strangers to pay for the abortion of other people?

Now, you seem to equate people not wanting to pay for the healthcare of others as "those people are not compassionate" and in fact it is YOU who is "out in the left field"...

Obamacare is not about compasison, and forcing people to do the will of others or the government has NOTHING to do with "compassion"...


edit on 8-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Hope4peace

You are out in left field too. Love how you speculate what my views are....you have no clue. Now....as for your comment on abortion, I would be more than happy to debate that with you if you'd like


I can only judge what you write, and that's what I did.

As to abortion, do you think it is ok to FORCE strangers to pay for the abortion of other people?

Now, you seem to equate people not wanting to pay for the healthcare of others as "those people are not compassionate" and in fact it is YOU who is "out in the left field"...

Obamacare is not about compasison, and forcing people to do the will of others or the government has NOTHING to do with "compassion"...


edit on 8-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

No, I do not think that anyone should be forced to pay for others health care or for them to get an abortion. I also don't think it should be up to the government to decide if abortion should be allowed or not.

I never said I was for Obamacare, you assumed that, maybe because I said that everyone has the right to affordable healthcare?
I am not a democrat, a republican or a liberal.
I think this country is so corrupt and out of balance that unfortunetely I don't think it can ever be fixed....there are too many negative people in this world. There seems to be 2 types of people in the world and those are, "Service to self types" and "Service to others" types. The attitude of the person I first responded to struck me as the "service to self" type ( can't think of the user name atm) and that is why I spoke up....I didn't speak up to defend obamacare. I don't defend anything this government does, did or will do.

Now here is the real question....how many people here have actually read every single line, page ect. of the obamacare bill? So many Americans are ignorant and don't even know enough information to base an informed opinion.

Ugh! I hate tying on an ipad!



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by grahag

Originally posted by Hope4peace

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by matth
 


You see, the American culture used to believe that NOTHING is free and that only hard work pays. Socialism has done a great deal to erode that once universal belief and led to an entitlement culture. We would like to see our libertarian roots reinvigorated so that each INDIVIDUAL can live up to their potential, on their own merits.


Sincerely,
Kozmo


Why are there so many Americans out there with this mentality? What about the naturally born weak? The less fortunate? Those born with disabilities? Not everyones "potential" is strong enough to make it in "your" kind of world...which seems to be "survival of the fittest". We are not animals, we are humans and there needs to be more compassion out there for the less fortunate. Nobody wants to help out their neighbor in a sense....it's every man for himself. Your idea of "hard work" might vary greatly to someone that puts in many hours bagging groceries because they were in a car accident growing up and lost the mental ability to get that higher education so they can make higher earnings therefore being able to afford insurance. Not all companies privide health insurance these days. Everyone deserves affordable health care.


Because those kind of people see themselves as "the fit", until they're not. Then they see themselves as "the victim".

Selfishness is the reason. These people think they got where they're at all by themselves without any help. It's why I get such a sense of schadenfreude when I see them complain about being the victim. I know it's immature, but Karma is a 100 ton train it's amazing to watch it in action.

Selfishness is the reason for most of the world's problems. People aren't willing to give up a little of what they have so that everyone can have it better. I laugh even harder when they call themselves Christians. In any case, we'd all be better off if we all just shared the burdens.


You have absolutely no CLUE what I'm willing to give up...

You have no clue what ANYBODY is willing to give up under a system of govt mandates...

It is more selfish to believe you can force people to help others than it is to wish that all people give willingly...

I believe that I can encourage others to give and to give what I can myself.

You believe that it's alright to force others to give at the point of a gun...

That is the SOLE difference between our viewpoints.

Jaden



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 04:32 AM
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Originally posted by Hope4peace

No, I do not think that anyone should be forced to pay for others health care or for them to get an abortion. I also don't think it should be up to the government to decide if abortion should be allowed or not.

I never said I was for Obamacare, you assumed that, maybe because I said that everyone has the right to affordable healthcare?


Ok, then we agree pretty much on everything so far. Yes I do think healthcare should be affordable as well.

As for helping others, it should always be up to each individual whether or not they can, and how much they can help others.

People will always look up to their own first. To their families, and to themselves. Only when people make more than just the basics will they be able, and willing to help others.

You can't help others when you are starving, or barely making a living, but imo people should ALWAYS be FREE to choose for themselves what they want to do, not be MANDATED/FORCED by the government or by other individuals no matter how good of a reason it might sound to be.

A lot of members here, and many people around the world, have the mentality that society, and all of humanity owes them, and that they are entitled to get everything free without working at all for those things they "want" or "need".

In great part society itself, and progress are to blame for this because a lot of people are not taught personal responsibility anymore. These people blame the whole world for their problems. If they become criminals, they blame their parents, their upbringing, and society, but in truth it was their decision alone, and society now-a-days tends to also side with these individuals making them look like victims.

People in the left shift personal responsibility and instead blame others, or even society as a whole for what some people do, and they call this new view as "being civilized, compassionate, and modern", or in other words it is part of "progress".

If a criminal murders, and even goes on a murder spree these people always try to "save these poor souls who were not responsible for becoming criminals", even if the crime is murder. Now-a-days the "compassionate" thing to do, according to the left, is to "treat" these individuals and then release them again into society. It doesn't matter if they commit crimes again, the left want to keep giving criminals a green card, which in fact has been creating a habit for criminals who keep using the excuse to blame others for what they choose to do.

Anyway, yeah I went a bit off tangent but in fact these things I mentioned are also part of the reason why the left thinks that they are entitled to everything for free, including healthcare.

You are correct also in saying that the country, and in fact the whole world is corrupt, but you see, the reason it has been corrupted is for people to accept the "solutions that the world elites have wanted to implement for at least a century."

Capitalism is being blamed, and is the scapegoat being used by the elites to push for their One World Socialist/Fascist Government, which of course it won't be called that at first, it's name might be "One World Social/Democratic Government" or something similar.

With a truly Capitalist and free market system a One World Government could never happen, hence industries are being "nationalised" worldwide, if they aren't already. The socialization has been so far at the national level in every country, but eventually the power will reside completly with the world socialist/fascist elites once their One World Government becomes reality.

As for the elections, I wish that Ron Paul would be given a chance to prove whether or not his views could help this nation, and in at least some of his views it would help the nation, such as getting rid of the Feds, which was implemented by the left back in 1913 as part of "progress".

But will Ron Paul be elected President? I doubt that even if we had the votes to make it so the world elites will do anything, and everything in their power to stop Ron Paul from doing the changes he wants to implement. The world elites would even start WWIII to stop Ron Paul unfortunately.

Unfortunately imo it is too late for the United States, and other world countries because there are too many people who are buying into the plans of the world socialist elites, and people think it is their plan when in fact the world elites have been playing chess with the people of the world and have us all in check mate.

Many popular movements, like OWS, are working, whether they know it or not, for the world elites, and the goals that the mayority of OWS all around the world are demanding for are exactly the same changes that the world elites have been planning for and want to implement.

The only way the U.S., and the whole world could be saved is if the mayority of these people change their minds and don't fall anymore for the goals the world elites want to implement.

But do you think that will happen? IMHO, I don't think so.


edit on 9-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Again, if the Bush administration helped the Iraqi government decide what healthcare to implement they would have chosen the old U.S. system...not the Obamacare system... You don't do math real well do you?

Hmmm...seems to me you folks argue most vociferously against the concept of the Right to health care, yet...

Article 31:
First: Every citizen has the right to health care. The State shall maintain public health and provide the means of prevention and treatment by building different types of hospitals and health institutions.
Second: Individuals and entities have the right to build hospitals, clinics, or private health care centers under the supervision of the State, and this shall be regulated by law. www.uniraq.org...

So you're quite right...I don't do math real well, but I can read.


Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
As to the rest of it, we've had this discussion and to continue it will not get either of us any further.
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Of course you don't because you have no real argument except to use ad hominem, and strawman arguments...
No, it's because it would be a waste of my time. Yours, too...



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by Hope4peace

Originally posted by Masterjaden

Originally posted by Hope4peace

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by matth
 


You see, the American culture used to believe that NOTHING is free and that only hard work pays. Socialism has done a great deal to erode that once universal belief and led to an entitlement culture. We would like to see our libertarian roots reinvigorated so that each INDIVIDUAL can live up to their potential, on their own merits.


Sincerely,
Kozmo


Why are there so many Americans out there with this mentality? What about the naturally born weak? The less fortunate? Those born with disabilities? Not everyones "potential" is strong enough to make it in "your" kind of world...which seems to be "survival of the fittest". We are not animals, we are humans and there needs to be more compassion out there for the less fortunate. Nobody wants to help out their neighbor in a sense....it's every man for himself. Your idea of "hard work" might vary greatly to someone that puts in many hours bagging groceries because they were in a car accident growing up and lost the mental ability to get that higher education so they can make higher earnings therefore being able to afford insurance. Not all companies privide health insurance these days. Everyone deserves affordable health care.


That is not the attitude at all...

Our attitude is that helping MUST be the individuals choice...

Even today, the private willing donations help out the poor and down trodden MUCH more than ANY govt program..

MY question is what is with this progressive attitude that you can force me at the point of a gun to help out the less fortunate...

The problem with that tactic is that eventually people grow tired of it and point a gun back...

Jaden


Progressive attitude? Pointing guns? You're out in left field...I was merely making a statement about the lack of compassion I'm seeing in some of the posts.

Please explain this "pointing of guns" tactic that you feel would take place.


Your confusing things a little. Its not that we have a lack of compassion. It is that we have seen too many people in this country time and time again looking for hand outs. There is a large segment of our population that is content to sit on their butts and wait for someone to help them and the more we give the more they take. It would be different if it were appreciated but its starting to become expected. But that doesnt change the fact that this bill isnt giving anyone health care. They just want to call it that to get votes.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Hmmm...seems to me you folks argue most vociferously against the concept of the Right to health care, yet...


AGAIN you don't seem to understand the difference betwen IRAQ and the UNITED STATES...

Are you that obtuse that you can't understand that people don't want YOUR VIEWS to be shoved down their throats?...

Who the F are you, or anyone else to FORCE Americans, or anyone else to accept your views?...

I don't give a crap about your views and how good you think they are "for everyone". You want your views, we want ours... Is that so hard for you to understand?...

FORCING people to accept your views, no matter how good YOU think they "are for all" has NOTHING to do about compassion...


Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
So you're quite right...I don't do math real well, but I can read.


No, you want to FORCE people to accept YOUR views...

Many Americans value FREEDOM more than "being FORCED to do good for all"...

People can be compassionate without accepting YOUR views and without BEING FORCED to do the will of the government or people like you...

We get it, you are a control freak, now how about you leave us alone to decide for OURSELVES?...


Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
No, it's because it would be a waste of my time. Yours, too...


I know it is a waste of time, you think you are right because "it is for the good for all", but in fact you are wrong because you are FORCING people to do YOUR will...


Get your head out of your ass and understand that we don't want people, or governments FORCING their views on us...


edit on 9-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Hmmm...seems to me you folks argue most vociferously against the concept of the Right to health care, yet...


AGAIN you don't seem to understand the difference betwen IRAQ and the UNITED STATES...

Are you that obtuse that you can't understand that people don't want YOUR VIEWS to be shoved down their throats?...

Who the F are you, or anyone else to FORCE Americans, or anyone else to accept your views?...

I don't give a crap about your views and how good you think they are "for everyone". You want your views, we want ours... Is that so hard for you to understand?...

FORCING people to accept your views, no matter how good YOU think they "are for all" has NOTHING to do about compassion...

So was it out of compassion that the U.S., in writing the Iraqi constitution, added universal health care for all of their citizens? Are you suggesting, instead, that the U.S. has the right to jam their views down the throat of the average Iraqi? Or was omission a deal breaker for the Iraqis who were to vote on accepting it? Here's a nicely stated version:

Universal care is right for Iraq, Thompson saysUnder force of arms, President Bush imposed his particular idea of democracy on a people not asking for it - perhaps a noble undertaking in one context and a criminal violation of international law in another. Bush's followers are proud of the Iraqi Constitution, a model for the world, they told us. So, according to the American political right-wing, government-guaranteed health care is good for Iraqis, but not good for us. Not good for you. They decry even a limited public option for you, but gleefully imposed upon the Iraqis what they label here as "socialism," with much Democratic Party member support. current.com...


It would appear to be coming out of your pocket, too:

Universal care is right for Iraq, Thompson says.
Fresh from a two-day weekend visit to Iraq, the Bush administration's top health-care official defended the $950 million that will be spent to help Iraq establish universal health care. seattletimes.nwsource.com...


So is it right to force UHC upon people or not? Should the U.S. taxpayer pony up for other countries' SOCIALIST (sic) schemes? Manifest Destiny?

Now, as I have said many times before, this is an international website, so you're going to get international response. This was a nice helpful thread meant to assure Americans that they can actually receive UHC and not end up with Commie hordes raping their women and stealing their Chevys. I have been trying to correct your misapprehensions regarding Bush paying for Iraqi health care, which seemed to confuse you...but declined to engage you in the larger debate because we have been their before and gotten nowhere. Let's leave it at that, eh?



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Opinions abound EVERYWHERE... BTW, I have said many times before that I did not, and do not agree with everything Bush did, or has done, but you ignored those comments as well...

You can post a million opinions, and i can find a million that have a different view from those you posted... the fact is that Obamacare is not about compassion, or "helping others"...

I even posted evidence directly from leftwing sources that prove Obama made deals with Big Pharma, and his healthcare is FORCING Americans to do his will, yet you keep claiming "it is for the good of all"...

Get it on your head, not everybody wants what YOU want...

Why should the United States follow in the footsteps of Canada, or any other country?... More so when it is a fact that your "universal healthcare" has as many, if not more flaws than the system the U.S. has been using?...

I'll rather have AFFORDABLE Healthcare, than forcing anyone to pay for my healthcare...

You don't want to understand that your system IS NOT PERFECT, and even if it was people should still be able to CHOOSE what they want to do, not "be FORCED/MANDATED even if it is claimed to be for the good of all"...

PLENTY of dictatorships have been implemented with the idea of "FORCING others to do the will of a government/an individual/ a group of individuals for the good of all"...

I'll leave you with the following thoughts of great men.

William Pitt once said...

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves."

Another very smart man, H.L. Mencken, once said...

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule"

And yet another intelligent man, C.S. Lewis, once said...

"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."




edit on 9-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 08:12 PM
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Electric Universe, you've lost the argument. Stop searching for something that you can latch onto to save face. Just move on with your life.


Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Hmmm...seems to me you folks argue most vociferously against the concept of the Right to health care, yet...


AGAIN you don't seem to understand the difference betwen IRAQ and the UNITED STATES...

Are you that obtuse that you can't understand that people don't want YOUR VIEWS to be shoved down their throats?...

Who the F are you, or anyone else to FORCE Americans, or anyone else to accept your views?...

I don't give a crap about your views and how good you think they are "for everyone". You want your views, we want ours... Is that so hard for you to understand?...

FORCING people to accept your views, no matter how good YOU think they "are for all" has NOTHING to do about compassion...


Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
So you're quite right...I don't do math real well, but I can read.


No, you want to FORCE people to accept YOUR views...

Many Americans value FREEDOM more than "being FORCED to do good for all"...

People can be compassionate without accepting YOUR views and without BEING FORCED to do the will of the government or people like you...

We get it, you are a control freak, now how about you leave us alone to decide for OURSELVES?...


Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
No, it's because it would be a waste of my time. Yours, too...


I know it is a waste of time, you think you are right because "it is for the good for all", but in fact you are wrong because you are FORCING people to do YOUR will...


Get your head out of your ass and understand that we don't want people, or governments FORCING their views on us...


edit on 9-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by SeekingAlpha
Electric Universe, you've lost the argument. Stop searching for something that you can latch onto to save face. Just move on with your life.


How the hell did I lose the argument?... why, because YOU a "believer" in Obamacare claims so?...

How about you learn to DEBATE the arguments i made with counter-arguments, and evidence instead of just claiming "we won because I said so"...

Grow the hell up...


edit on 9-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
I even posted evidence directly from leftwing sources that prove Obama made deals with Big Pharma, and his healthcare is FORCING Americans to do his will, yet you keep claiming "it is for the good of all"...

Dude, I will simply say that I have not said "it is for the good of all". I have said that more people will be covered, which is good...but I have not endorsed the mechanism (like that matters) because it is also engineered to make insurance companies richer. Nobody here is saying you have to adopt our system, simply that it works for us...not perfectly (what is?) but I have not seen a better system. I sure wouldn't swap it for Romneycare...Obamacare...whatever.

Or anything else I see south of the border. And that, my friend, is the essence of the original post. We cool?



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
...
for us...not perfectly (what is?) but I have not seen a better system. I sure wouldn't swap it for Romneycare...Obamacare...whatever.

Or anything else I see south of the border. And that, my friend, is the essence of the original post. We cool?


Really? so no Canadians EVER come to the United States to get treatment and operations that your "universal healthcare" doesn't cover?...

Even your system DOESN'T cover everyone...


edit on 9-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
...
for us...not perfectly (what is?) but I have not seen a better system. I sure wouldn't swap it for Romneycare...Obamacare...whatever.

Or anything else I see south of the border. And that, my friend, is the essence of the original post. We cool?


Really? so no Canadians NEVER come to the United States to get treatment and operations that your "universal healthcare" doesn't cover?...

Even your system DOESN'T cover everyone...

OK, one mo' time...
Some stuff falls between the cracks
Some stuff is still waiting approval
Some stuff, like elective surgery, gets in line
Some folks jump queues in restaurant line ups, others for healthcare
Some are are paid for by our provincial plans, but expedited by using US facilities

BUT...I pay about $400 annually to the province for health care, above and beyond my regular taxes, When I got prostate cancer, it was cured fast and the technology was cutting edge. It cost me $32...accumulated parking at the oncology centre. I got no beefs...and I got to keep my house.


edit on 9-7-2012 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by TheTardis

Originally posted by Hope4peace

Originally posted by Masterjaden

Originally posted by Hope4peace

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by matth
 


You see, the American culture used to believe that NOTHING is free and that only hard work pays. Socialism has done a great deal to erode that once universal belief and led to an entitlement culture. We would like to see our libertarian roots reinvigorated so that each INDIVIDUAL can live up to their potential, on their own merits.


Sincerely,
Kozmo


Why are there so many Americans out there with this mentality? What about the naturally born weak? The less fortunate? Those born with disabilities? Not everyones "potential" is strong enough to make it in "your" kind of world...which seems to be "survival of the fittest". We are not animals, we are humans and there needs to be more compassion out there for the less fortunate. Nobody wants to help out their neighbor in a sense....it's every man for himself. Your idea of "hard work" might vary greatly to someone that puts in many hours bagging groceries because they were in a car accident growing up and lost the mental ability to get that higher education so they can make higher earnings therefore being able to afford insurance. Not all companies privide health insurance these days. Everyone deserves affordable health care.


That is not the attitude at all...

Our attitude is that helping MUST be the individuals choice...

Even today, the private willing donations help out the poor and down trodden MUCH more than ANY govt program..

MY question is what is with this progressive attitude that you can force me at the point of a gun to help out the less fortunate...

The problem with that tactic is that eventually people grow tired of it and point a gun back...

Jaden


Progressive attitude? Pointing guns? You're out in left field...I was merely making a statement about the lack of compassion I'm seeing in some of the posts.

Please explain this "pointing of guns" tactic that you feel would take place.


Your confusing things a little. Its not that we have a lack of compassion. It is that we have seen too many people in this country time and time again looking for hand outs. There is a large segment of our population that is content to sit on their butts and wait for someone to help them and the more we give the more they take. It would be different if it were appreciated but its starting to become expected. But that doesnt change the fact that this bill isnt giving anyone health care. They just want to call it that to get votes.


Ok, I think I need to clear things up on my "lack of compassion" statement...

Let's take the city of Detroit for example. I have no compassion for the mothers that have 5 children with 5 different fathers that sit on their butts and do nothing (or spend their welfare check on booze and drugs) while their teenage sons are out gang banging and their daughters are out sleeping around following in mommy's footsteps all while the government is paying for this. Then you have the fathers mooching off of these types of woman because they think the "white man" owes them or if they are white, that they can't get anywhere in life because mommy and daddy weren't good parents and messed them up in the head.
As for the children that are raised by this type of mother, I feel bad that they got the bad luck of being born to that kind of person but at the same time we are all responsible for our own actions as we grow older.

Now, there are good people in this country that try so hard to get ahead and because of their location, family situation or "flat out" lack of money (gotta spend money to make money don't forget) they get stuck in this society and can't get ahead no matter how hard they try.
In other message boards, I have seen people respond to folks like this with comments like "well you should have gone to college, everyone is given the same opportunities). Not everyone can afford that college education and not all employers offer insurance. Insurance companies are insane with what they charge imo and your average person cannot afford that while raising a family. Granted, our government sucks and is being ran by evil people and that is why obamacare will most likely end up bringing more bad than good down the road but I've often thought that if the world was filled with all "good hearted" people and no evil exsisted, than socialism could be a good thing. Power put into the right hands (and I don't mean right-wing hands) could be a good thing.

Actually, power is in the right hands....it is in God's hands...we just need to be patient until our journey here on earth ends.



posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
...
for us...not perfectly (what is?) but I have not seen a better system. I sure wouldn't swap it for Romneycare...Obamacare...whatever.

Or anything else I see south of the border. And that, my friend, is the essence of the original post. We cool?


Really? so no Canadians NEVER come to the United States to get treatment and operations that your "universal healthcare" doesn't cover?...

Even your system DOESN'T cover everyone...

OK, one mo' time...
Some stuff falls between the cracks
Some stuff is still waiting approval
Some stuff, like elective surgery, gets in line
Some folks jump queues in restaurant line ups, others for healthcare
Some are are paid for by our provincial plans, but expedited by using US facilities

BUT...I pay about $400 annually to the province for health care, above and beyond my regular taxes, When I got prostate cancer, it was cured fast and the technology was cutting edge. It cost me $32...accumulated parking at the oncology centre. I got no beefs...and I got to keep my house.


edit on 9-7-2012 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)


I think most people are missing the point. You've partaken of your government provided healthcare for a potentially fatal problem and all it cost you was parking at the medical center.

Here in the US, if you didn't have insurance, you probably would have either died or lost your house. At the very least, you would have had to rely on the kindness of others to help pay for the treatments, which run into the 10's of thousands of dollars, if not more.

"forcing" people to get healthcare insurance is a win for everyone. You don't know when you need it, but the majority of people WILL need it as some point. I'd prefer the single payer system as it's less prone to corruption AND it keeps prices low for the government. Obamacare is a better system than what we have and there are enough escape clauses for people who would be hurt by it to be excepted.



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