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To My American Friends Re: Healthcare and Elections

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posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Is it not so that the new Iraq, as constructed by the U.S., also has universal health care? Ironic, ain't it?


How about you read what is actually in the bill instead of spouting so much ignorance?...

You truly seem to be like the man in your avatar... All bark and no bite...

You just make claims and think that just because you made them you are right...

Read the freaking bill and stop swimming in ignorance...
edit on 7-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Is it not so that the new Iraq, as constructed by the U.S., also has universal health care? Ironic, ain't it?

How about you read what is actually in the bill instead of spouting so much ignorance?...
You truly seem to be like the man in your avatar... All bark and no bite...
You just make claims and think that just because you made them you are right...
Read the freaking bill and stop swimming in ignorance...


Guaranteed Health Care In Iraq - But Not For You
Article 31 of the Iraqi Constitution, drafted by your right-wing Bushies in 2005 and ratified by the Iraqi people, includes state-guaranteed (single payer) healthcare for life for every Iraqi citizen...So, according to the American political right-wing, government-guaranteed health care is good for Iraqis, but not good for us. Not good for you. They decry even a limited public option for you, but gleefully imposed upon the Iraqis what they label here as "socialism," with much Democratic Party member support.www.huffingtonpost.com...


Rant over?



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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The government owned hospitals are raping people. Its the reason our health care cost's are so high! If you privatize the whole system it would be fine, use cars and mechanics as an example. Get the government OUT of health care, DO NOT put more government in. The government ruins everything it touches - TSA, Post Office to name a few. You can bury your head in the sand and say ," Oh this is great!, we are helping everyone!", well the reality of planet earth steps in and says, "There is a COST". If anyone wants to give all of their money to help other people then go right ahead, just don't include me in your unrealistic ridiculous plans.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by Hope4peace

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by matth
 


You see, the American culture used to believe that NOTHING is free and that only hard work pays. Socialism has done a great deal to erode that once universal belief and led to an entitlement culture. We would like to see our libertarian roots reinvigorated so that each INDIVIDUAL can live up to their potential, on their own merits.


Sincerely,
Kozmo


Why are there so many Americans out there with this mentality? What about the naturally born weak? The less fortunate? Those born with disabilities? Not everyones "potential" is strong enough to make it in "your" kind of world...which seems to be "survival of the fittest". We are not animals, we are humans and there needs to be more compassion out there for the less fortunate. Nobody wants to help out their neighbor in a sense....it's every man for himself. Your idea of "hard work" might vary greatly to someone that puts in many hours bagging groceries because they were in a car accident growing up and lost the mental ability to get that higher education so they can make higher earnings therefore being able to afford insurance. Not all companies privide health insurance these days. Everyone deserves affordable health care.


That is not the attitude at all...

Our attitude is that helping MUST be the individuals choice...

Even today, the private willing donations help out the poor and down trodden MUCH more than ANY govt program..

MY question is what is with this progressive attitude that you can force me at the point of a gun to help out the less fortunate...

The problem with that tactic is that eventually people grow tired of it and point a gun back...

Jaden



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by MultiversalSoul
There are so many responses against PPACA that I have seen in the media and the internet filled with hyperbole and slippery slope arguments, and it's getting ridiculous. This is not the end of the world as we know it. In regards to the constitution I believe it was meant to be read as a living document that changes according to different standards.

As an American I find PPACA to be step in the right direction, although I along with others view BigPharma and insurance companies particularly abhorrent. We can only hope this puts the foot in the door to nationalize the insurance companies or to give us the three choices of employer insurance/government insurance/private insurance like some European nations. That way the amount citizens are taxed is a small price to pay, as compared to, the insurance rates now which are due to pharmaceutical companies getting pharmaceutical reps that bribe doctors with nice dinners and gifts to sell their drugs. Which then forces the patient to use the high priced drugs causing premiums to skyrocket. Why else would people go to other countries to get prescription drugs at a cheaper cost?

I know that even now in the big city I live in the uninsured get declined at for profit hospitals even with an emergency. The hospital will send them to a nonprofit hospital in my city which owes money to the government because the uninsured cannot afford the medical bills, and so the taxpayers pay that bill right now anyway. If the taxpayers did not take the weight off that nonprofit hospital it would not be operating today. With PPACA those uninsured people will have to buy insurance themselves and taxpayers will not have to pay the bill for the patient anymore.

In regards to:
reply to post by EvilSadamClone
 



People shouldn't be forced to pay for anything. And I for one, would love to see a section on the IRS tax form that would allow me to put where my taxes go. I do believe wholeheartedly in having insurance, and I am not opposed to the government offering help for people. But it should not be extortion and should not be mandatory.


That idea is part of a participatory democracy. If I had the choice to vote with my taxes on what to spend it on I would put 0% (yeah 0%) of my taxes into national defense instead of something around 50% because we know what those wars are for anyway, I’ll let the other warmongers spend their taxes on that. If you want to see what it would be like to choose how you would want to spend your taxes check out this website.

Of course with that idea the government would most likely only allow us to choose what 50% of our taxes go into as a safety net just in case we all put our eggs in the same basket.



edit on 7-7-2012 by MultiversalSoul because: no reason



EHHHJ!!!!! wrong!!!!!

The ONLY way that the constitution is a LIVING document is by getting 2/3rds of both houses and 3/4ths of the states to agree on what needs to be living...

The living document horsecrap is the most asinine crap I've ever heard...

The above is the ONLY way that it is a living document and for GOOD reason..

Jaden



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by plube
reply to post by Masterjaden
 


I am not sure where your coming from....but Medical in many countries is considered a right...and I think for myself...i think it is a right...just as it is a right to be treated as a human...I think it is upto the people to fight for these kind of rights...and It should upheld always....I agree with others that is is the corporate lobbyist that are trying the sway the American people....You all can try to say It is about socialism...But i would disagree...YOu all pay your taxes...so make it a demand that instead of spending Fortunes on your military...why not actually spend YOUR OWN TAX DOLLARS on YOUR OWN PEOPLE...I mean how dense do you have to be...YOU OWN THAT MONEY...not your government...I think that is what so many people forget...It is your money and you have the RIGHT to decide what it gets spent....so you can decide if it gets spent on killing people...or if it gets spent on saving people....your choice...so why not make a good choice for a change....you might be suprised at the out come.


NO,. it CANNOT be a 'right'

Healthcare is provided by OTHER PEOPLE's WORKS!!!!!

You cannot have a 'right' to other people's works!!!!

You may have it...but you don't have a right to it. You are taking it at the point of a gun and the threat of incarceration...

That is NOT a right...

Jaden



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by matth
 


100% agree with you mate.

As an Aussie I am able to hand my doctor or hospital a green Medicare card and have all my expenses paid for. Really, it's that simple.

It's beyond me why Americans don't want this, it defies all logic and rational reasoning. Sometimes I think Americans oppose things just for the sake of it, to make themselves feel like they have control or something.

It's completely ludicrous.
edit on 7/7/2012 by Kryties because: (no reason given)



Because it's NOT free....You're stealing from other people...

You may think it's free but it's stealing from other people in order for it to be free to YOU!!!!

Jaden



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by Masterjaden

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by matth
 


100% agree with you mate.

As an Aussie I am able to hand my doctor or hospital a green Medicare card and have all my expenses paid for. Really, it's that simple.

It's beyond me why Americans don't want this, it defies all logic and rational reasoning. Sometimes I think Americans oppose things just for the sake of it, to make themselves feel like they have control or something.

It's completely ludicrous.
edit on 7/7/2012 by Kryties because: (no reason given)



Because it's NOT free....You're stealing from other people...

You may think it's free but it's stealing from other people in order for it to be free to YOU!!!!

We pay it willingly...we look after our own, so much so we made it national policy. Theft? Nonsense!



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by Hope4peace

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by matth
 


You see, the American culture used to believe that NOTHING is free and that only hard work pays. Socialism has done a great deal to erode that once universal belief and led to an entitlement culture. We would like to see our libertarian roots reinvigorated so that each INDIVIDUAL can live up to their potential, on their own merits.


Sincerely,
Kozmo


Why are there so many Americans out there with this mentality? What about the naturally born weak? The less fortunate? Those born with disabilities? Not everyones "potential" is strong enough to make it in "your" kind of world...which seems to be "survival of the fittest". We are not animals, we are humans and there needs to be more compassion out there for the less fortunate. Nobody wants to help out their neighbor in a sense....it's every man for himself. Your idea of "hard work" might vary greatly to someone that puts in many hours bagging groceries because they were in a car accident growing up and lost the mental ability to get that higher education so they can make higher earnings therefore being able to afford insurance. Not all companies privide health insurance these days. Everyone deserves affordable health care.


Because those kind of people see themselves as "the fit", until they're not. Then they see themselves as "the victim".

Selfishness is the reason. These people think they got where they're at all by themselves without any help. It's why I get such a sense of schadenfreude when I see them complain about being the victim. I know it's immature, but Karma is a 100 ton train it's amazing to watch it in action.

Selfishness is the reason for most of the world's problems. People aren't willing to give up a little of what they have so that everyone can have it better. I laugh even harder when they call themselves Christians. In any case, we'd all be better off if we all just shared the burdens.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Masterjaden

Originally posted by plube
reply to post by Masterjaden
 


I am not sure where your coming from....but Medical in many countries is considered a right...and I think for myself...i think it is a right...just as it is a right to be treated as a human...I think it is upto the people to fight for these kind of rights...and It should upheld always....I agree with others that is is the corporate lobbyist that are trying the sway the American people....You all can try to say It is about socialism...But i would disagree...YOu all pay your taxes...so make it a demand that instead of spending Fortunes on your military...why not actually spend YOUR OWN TAX DOLLARS on YOUR OWN PEOPLE...I mean how dense do you have to be...YOU OWN THAT MONEY...not your government...I think that is what so many people forget...It is your money and you have the RIGHT to decide what it gets spent....so you can decide if it gets spent on killing people...or if it gets spent on saving people....your choice...so why not make a good choice for a change....you might be suprised at the out come.


NO,. it CANNOT be a 'right'

Healthcare is provided by OTHER PEOPLE's WORKS!!!!!

You cannot have a 'right' to other people's works!!!!

You may have it...but you don't have a right to it. You are taking it at the point of a gun and the threat of incarceration...

That is NOT a right...

Jaden


Threat of incarceration? Point of a gun? Seriously?

Explain the Right to Life part... You have a right to live? What can you not live without? Food? Water? Breathable Air? Shelter?
Why are those not provided by the government?

Lets talk about Liberty... Freedom... If someone can take your freedom away, then that's not a right, by your description anyway...



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by Masterjaden

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by matth
 


100% agree with you mate.

As an Aussie I am able to hand my doctor or hospital a green Medicare card and have all my expenses paid for. Really, it's that simple.

It's beyond me why Americans don't want this, it defies all logic and rational reasoning. Sometimes I think Americans oppose things just for the sake of it, to make themselves feel like they have control or something.

It's completely ludicrous.
edit on 7/7/2012 by Kryties because: (no reason given)



Because it's NOT free....You're stealing from other people...

You may think it's free but it's stealing from other people in order for it to be free to YOU!!!!

Jaden


So taxes are theft? Or is that just how government works... Roads and Police and Fire Departments and Teachers... All part of the socialist machine. I've never needed the fire department, so because my taxes go to them, I'm being stolen from?

I don't think people know ANYTHING about socialism or even socialist behavior. They make socialism a bad word because they've been fed that crap for so long that it sounds good for them to turn their nose up at it when socialized government is all around them and it works BECAUSE it's mandatory.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by FissionSurplus
 


Some of us have employer sponsored health and dental plans that cover extras beyond the government system. Not everyone enjoys this, but we do pay premiums to the insurers for part of this coverage. As to the rest, we can walk into the hospital, and after a 6 hour plus wait,see a doctor for free. Based on my hourly wage, that 6 hour vist recently cost me $200 bucks in lost wages, my spouse another $175



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by Masterjaden

Originally posted by Hope4peace

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by matth
 


You see, the American culture used to believe that NOTHING is free and that only hard work pays. Socialism has done a great deal to erode that once universal belief and led to an entitlement culture. We would like to see our libertarian roots reinvigorated so that each INDIVIDUAL can live up to their potential, on their own merits.


Sincerely,
Kozmo


Why are there so many Americans out there with this mentality? What about the naturally born weak? The less fortunate? Those born with disabilities? Not everyones "potential" is strong enough to make it in "your" kind of world...which seems to be "survival of the fittest". We are not animals, we are humans and there needs to be more compassion out there for the less fortunate. Nobody wants to help out their neighbor in a sense....it's every man for himself. Your idea of "hard work" might vary greatly to someone that puts in many hours bagging groceries because they were in a car accident growing up and lost the mental ability to get that higher education so they can make higher earnings therefore being able to afford insurance. Not all companies privide health insurance these days. Everyone deserves affordable health care.


That is not the attitude at all...

Our attitude is that helping MUST be the individuals choice...

Even today, the private willing donations help out the poor and down trodden MUCH more than ANY govt program..

MY question is what is with this progressive attitude that you can force me at the point of a gun to help out the less fortunate...

The problem with that tactic is that eventually people grow tired of it and point a gun back...

Jaden


Progressive attitude? Pointing guns? You're out in left field...I was merely making a statement about the lack of compassion I'm seeing in some of the posts.

Please explain this "pointing of guns" tactic that you feel would take place.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by matth
 




You folks would rather stick up for these health insurance providers and big pharma companies, the same companies that result in the #1 reason for bankruptcy in the United States (medical) as well as the same companies that keep you sick on purpose for return business and make your doctors into nothing more than sales reps for drugs...YOU WOULD RATHER STICK UP FOR THEM...in the name of capitalism...over people who actually need health care and can't afford it? Really?


"Stick up for these health insurance providers"? That's really your argument? The "Affordable Care Act" just gave insurance corporations the biggest bailout in the history of economics! Pathetic.

Also, what is this "free healthcare" morons are throwing around these days? There's no such animal. Never has and never will be. Unless it's paid for with unicorn farts, I guess.

/TOA



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
...

Rant over?


Wow...first of all the "healthcare of the Iraqi people" was chosen by "the Iraqi people"... They can choose whatever THEY want to chose, but it has NOTHING to do with the United States.

This fact goes against what people like you have been ranting over for years that Iraq is a puppet of the U.S., when in fact the people in Iraq are choosing their own way...

The bill that I said you should read is Obamacare/national healthcare...

Nice try, the only ones "ranting" out of ignorance, are people like you...


edit on 8-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 06:04 AM
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Originally posted by Hope4peace

Progressive attitude? Pointing guns? You're out in left field...I was merely making a statement about the lack of compassion I'm seeing in some of the posts.

Please explain this "pointing of guns" tactic that you feel would take place.


And to be compassionate you must give up your rights and your free will?...

People can, and are compassionate without being FORCED by people like you or any government...

BTW, you must be very compassionate having everyone be FORCED by the government to pay for the murders of human babies... Yeah very "compassionate" indeed...



edit on 8-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Rant over?

Wow...first of all the "healthcare of the Iraqi people" was chosen by "the Iraqi people"... They can choose whatever THEY want to chose, but it has NOTHING to do with the United States. This fact goes against what people like you have been ranting over for years that Iraq is a puppet of the U.S., when in fact the people in Iraq are choosing their own way...


Really? Some seem to disagree...

UN Official Says US Interfering in Iraq Constitution Process
U.S. influence in the process of drafting a constitution for Iraq is excessive and "highly inappropriate," a United Nations official says.

"It is a matter of public record that in the final weeks of the process the newly arrived U.S. ambassador [Zalmay Khalilzad] took an extremely hands-on role," Justin Alexander, legal affairs officer for the office of constitutional support with the United Nations Assistance Mission to Iraq (UNAMI) told IPS. "Even going so far as to circulate at least one U.S draft." www.antiwar.com...



The bill that I said you should read is Obamacare/national healthcare...
You're right, I have not read the bill...you should have addressed your comments more specifically. But tell me, does ignorance include not reading the rest of the thread before you pipe up? You'll note I stated earlier:

Few things... Obama care, while it is more inclusive that the present set (or lack) of programs, is still a licence for insurance companies to make scads of dough. Remove the profit margin and your costs drop...what? 30-50%?
Second, for a nation that is as slap-happy as it is about the paramountcy of America and Americans, a lot of you really are unduly inclined towards throwing your less fortunate under the bus.
Finally, all that fooferah about "this is not about taking care of your fellow Americans...this is about the abrogation of personal freedoms!" is a crock of crap. That's simply the kiss you get from your politicians as they are screwing the bejeezuz out of you.
We decided that universal health care was a right in our country...now it is. Simple as that.


Then I restated, for some who missed it:
Obama care, while it is more inclusive that the present set (or lack) of programs, is still a licence for insurance companies to make scads of dough. Remove the profit margin and your costs drop...what? 30-50%?

Bottom line, your system is a disgrace because of its cost and exclusivity of service. What kind of idiot embraces the concept of Universal Health Care as a danger to freedom but meekly allows the Patriot Act to stand? Ya can't suck and blow at the same time!


Nice try, the only ones "ranting" out of ignorance, are people like you...
Uh huh...don't step in that Wilbur...



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by Masterjaden

Because it's NOT free....You're stealing from other people...

You may think it's free but it's stealing from other people in order for it to be free to YOU!!!!


And when those people need medical assistance they can partake of the same. Give and take.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Really? Some seem to disagree...

UN Official Says US Interfering in Iraq Constitution Process
U.S. influence in the process of drafting a constitution for Iraq is excessive and "highly inappropriate," a United Nations official says.
...



Wow, you just helped prove my argument and you didn't even realize it...

Which U.S. administration would push for "national healthcare" in Iraq?... the Bush administration?... Naaa... The SOCIALISTS in power in the U.S. now would be the ones pushing for such a "national healthcare"... The same SOCIALISTS who have been pushing for Obamacare in the U.S... Just like SOCIALISTS in Canada and Europe are trying to push for "national healthcare" acceptance in the U.S.

Yep, SOCIALISTS stick their noses where it doesn't belong...



Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Few things... Obama care, while it is more inclusive that the present set (or lack) of programs, is still a licence for insurance companies to make scads of dough. Remove the profit margin and your costs drop...what? 30-50%?


I PROVED that the Obama administration made deals with Big Pharma, and it wasn't to "help Americans"...


Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Second, for a nation that is as slap-happy as it is about the paramountcy of America and Americans, a lot of you really are unduly inclined towards throwing your less fortunate under the bus.


Not really, first of all, under law even if a person doesn't have insurance the hospital must give basic care...

Second of all, the "national healthcare" in Canada, and other countries shows the fact that it isn't perfect either, and who knows how many people are denied certain treatments or operations because "national healthcare does not accept such treatments or operations"...

Canadians have PLENTY of people who do not get proper healthcare, and they actually have to come to the U.S. to get treatments they can't get in Canadian's so wonderful "national healthcare"...


Your attempt at using "compassion for the less fortunate" backfired on you...


Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Finally, all that fooferah about "this is not about taking care of your fellow Americans...this is about the abrogation of personal freedoms!" is a crock of crap. That's simply the kiss you get from your politicians as they are screwing the bejeezuz out of you.


Really?... I even posted evidence from LEFTWINGER sources that prove Obamacare is about FORCING Americans to the will of the government and your evidence is to claim this is "a crock of crap"?...

Maybe for a simple Canadian like yourself making such a claim is enough evidence, but for intelligent people you actually need FACTS to corroborate your argument...

Perhaps you should learn how to make an intelligent, and concise argument instead of trying to FORCE Americans to accept your point of view...


Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
We decided that universal health care was a right in our country...now it is. Simple as that.


YOU decided on your own, and if everyone in your country agrees with you more power to you. Now, how about you leave us the F alone and let us decide what AMERICANS want in the U.S.?...

For people who keep claiming the U.S. gets involved in what they shouldn't, you surely show to be the ones PUSHING for Americans to accept YOUR VIEWS...




Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Bottom line, your system is a disgrace because of its cost and exclusivity of service. What kind of idiot embraces the concept of Universal Health Care as a danger to freedom but meekly allows the Patriot Act to stand? Ya can't suck and blow at the same time!


And the Canuck continues to use insults as his evidence and facts?... Nice going Canuck...


What kind of an idiot claims that because other bills have been passed Americans should be quiet about new bills trying to FORCE Americans to accept SOCIALISM?...




Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Uh huh...don't step in that Wilbur...


Even more or your not so eloquent "evidence" Canuck?...

edit on 8-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Wow, you just helped prove my argument and you didn't even realize it...

Which U.S. administration would push for "national healthcare" in Iraq?... the Bush administration?... Naaa... The SOCIALISTS in power in the U.S. now would be the ones pushing for such a "national healthcare"... The same SOCIALISTS who have been pushing for Obamacare in the U.S... Just like SOCIALISTS in Canada and Europe are trying to push for "national healthcare" acceptance in the U.S.
Yep, SOCIALISTS stick their noses where it doesn't belong...
The report I cited was dated September 6, 2005. Obama was sworn in on January 20, 2009. You do the math.

As to the rest of it, we've had this discussion and to continue it will not get either of us any further.


Now, how about you leave us the F alone and let us decide what AMERICANS want in the U.S.?...
For people who keep claiming the U.S. gets involved in what they shouldn't you surely show to be the ones PUSHING for Americans to accept YOUR VIEWS...
I donno man...you chose to pipe up in a thread that commences: "Dear American Brothers and Sisters, Hi my name is Matt and I'm from Canada. Just wanted to drop you guys a line to talk about some of your perceived fears of "free" healthcare."

Seems that participation was entirely your call.

ok...quick edit...I gotta ask...just when did Mitt stop being a SOCIALIST?
edit on 8-7-2012 by JohnnyCanuck because: ...just because...ok?




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