It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

To My American Friends Re: Healthcare and Elections

page: 1
17
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:
+15 more 
posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 10:45 PM
link   
Dear American Brothers and Sisters,

Hi my name is Matt and I'm from Canada. Just wanted to drop you guys a line to talk about some of your perceived fears of "free" healthcare. In a nutshell all I really have to say is "stop denying ignorance and think for a minute!"

I just read a thread likening "Obamacare" (lol@ridiculous Republican catchphrase you guys are buying into) to slavery. Really? Really? You have got to be kidding me!

You folks would rather stick up for these health insurance providers and big pharma companies, the same companies that result in the #1 reason for bankruptcy in the United States (medical) as well as the same companies that keep you sick on purpose for return business and make your doctors into nothing more than sales reps for drugs...YOU WOULD RATHER STICK UP FOR THEM...in the name of capitalism...over people who actually need health care and can't afford it? Really?

Newsflash! People don't get sick by choice. Here's another cup of truth for you: people usually can't decide when they get sick. Here's one more slice of common sense: your body is not a house or a car! You pay good money for those material items and you don't have to own either...so if you do, I definitely understand the purpose of insurance. But insurance for your body? You people actually think that it is normal, right, ethical or sane to provide medical care based off level of insurance and income?

You want to talk about "death panels"? I know you Rebublican, Rush Limbaugh/Alex Jones fanboys reading this want to! Well in my humble opinion your current, privatized for-profit health care scheme is the ultimate example of a "death panel". They're called "insurance companies". Fun fact: in the 26 years I have been on this earth I have yet to appear before the National Death Panel of Canada to see if I can have adaquete health care or not. True story. I have however got good quality health care from any doctor I have seen. Not as good as privatized American style health care mind you, but I've also never had to declare bankruptcy and I don't have to care about the hospital kicking my ass onto the street when my insurance company says so. So I guess it's a matter of pros and cons.

America, it never ceases to amaze me at how ridiculous you sound sometimes. It also never ceases to amaze me at how effieciently and effectly the 1% are able to manipulate and sell you on things that are in no way beneficial to you that they can get more profits. It really is amazing in a sickening type of way. The blind patriotism is cute sometimes, but the joke isn't really funny anymore because you have an election coming up with only two options and neither of which seem to have what it takes to lead your country out of impending crisis. Instead of whining about the prospect of healthcare coverage for everyone (I know...scary thought) this election season, maybe you can start asking your candidates how you plan on fixing the ponze scheme known as the banking system...or how they will rebuild America's pathetic non-military infrastructure...or how exactly they plan on breaking your addiction to oil? It might prove more useful in selecting a good leader.

Take the health care...we like it here in Canada and best of all were still just as democratic and free as you guys are...or so we think. Anyway take care!

Sincerely,
Matt




posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 10:56 PM
link   
I'm just looking for an opinion. What do you think of Britain's National Health Service, and how does Canada's differ?



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 10:58 PM
link   
Matth, do Canadians pay for individual health care plans from insurance companies, or do you guys just pay a tax to the government and it is run by them?



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:02 PM
link   
You apparently think that the Obamacare system works like the Canadian system. It is far, far, FAR from the Canadian system.

In any case, I think most of our arguments have to do with the Constitutionality of the law. Some of us don't think the Supreme Court has the last word--or indeed even the right to make such determinations. If you'll research the arguments, instead of jumping to an overheated conclusion based on a couple of rants, you'll find that there are much deeper objections....



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
Matth, do Canadians pay for individual health care plans from insurance companies, or do you guys just pay a tax to the government and it is run by them?


It varies by province whether or not you pay a health care premium and for how much. Basically our provinces fund their own individual health care plans with some assistance from the federal government, but it varies.

For example, I currently live in British Columbia and I pay $60/month for my medical premium. It's all through the government but I have to pay it monthly like a cell phone bill...nothing is deducted from my paycheque or anything. If you are a low income resident or receiving assistance they wave the premium as well...most provinces do that, and before anyone starts crying "welfare!" I would ask you to save your breath, as we always need to help our brothers and sisters in need so that they can get back on their feet...health coverage is an important step to achieving that goal. However in other provinces or regions I have lived in such as the Maritimes or Alberta, you don't pay anything for your medical coverage and it is provided as a service from the government. That would obviously be funded through taxation, however when taxes go towards services to the taxpayers (such as medical...or roads...or in a make believe world education), as opposed to pork barrel spending or kickback grants, you will never hear me complain!

I'm also not familiar with the British health care system so it looks like I have some reading to do!



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:11 PM
link   
reply to post by Ex_CT2
 


No I've done plenty of research with an open mind and my conclusion remains the same. I'm all for upholding your respective nation's constitution, but you guys have plenty more blatant violations against your constitution than this one so I don't know why you don't bring those ones up again. "Obamacare" and our system is different, yes. And I hope my first post showed my distain for insurance companies...but making it the law to have health insurance is a step in the right direction considering you all proved in 2009 how afraid you were of "free" health care thanks to the Republican fear-monger machine. This new step can wean you guys off the insurance companies and wean them off your money.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:14 PM
link   
While I won’t say the ACA is a perfect fix for the problems surrounding the healthcare industry of the U. S., I would say you are right on. I do not see how a civilized society as numerous as this country can have healthcare as a for profit industry. It makes me sick some would rather allow these gigantic Capitalist institutions (yes, hyperbole, I know) to increase in wealth off the backs of those who, mostly through no fault of their own, get sick or injured. A for profit industry, why the bloody hell?

A senator, mcconnell, on a local news station told viewers that young people like me who are uninsured have a spending problem rather than an affordability problem. I find that statement completely off the mark. I have four jobs and still cannot afford health insurance, let alone live by myself.

Our election isn’t really a choice is it? Not that I expected the economy to turn around in four years, but these candidates and the 535 members of congress are spineless imbeciles. They would rather this country burn like Rome before deciding what is good for its citizens.

edit on 5-7-2012 by LR2543 because: paragraphs



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:15 PM
link   
reply to post by matth
 


Hmmm. Yes. Well, you need to do a lot more research then....

ETA: I must add that allowing all these small things to slip by unnoticed and/or unchallenged is exactly why we feel like our Constitution is being shredded. Letting something slip that many of us believe to be Unconstitutional, just because so many people are yelling to leave it alone because it's good for us, is the exact problem. The foundation itself is crumbling because there have been so many shortcuts taken and approved by silent assent. There may be bigger things--but we can't keep allowing just one more thing because of them...
edit on 7/5/2012 by Ex_CT2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:16 PM
link   
reply to post by matth
 


The big difference (with all due respect) is that countries like yours, healthcare is considered a right.

In America it is not. It is a personal responsibility. An aspect of self-determination. The "right" to seek medical attention, or obtain medical insurance is left soley up to the individual.

Just my humble opinion.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:19 PM
link   
reply to post by matth
 


psst... This law wasn't to put America on a National Healthcare System, like the UK, Canada or other countries that have a NHS. It was a law to force people to purchase Insurance Policies from private companies like Blue Cross and Blue Shield, Prudential, Mutual of Omaha and other companies. The law forces these companies to accept customers that have pre-existing conditions that would tend to cost the company more money than they would take in from monthly premiums. Meaning that customer would ordinarily been denied coverage due to trying to avoid a loss to the company. While the fanfare has been that 30 million Americans that do not currently have health insurance will now have it (once the law is fully in place) there have been estimates that as many as 55 million will lose or have major reductions to their current insurance policies due to cost increases of trying to balance the loss-gain sheets for all the companies. As well as some employers that will simply reduce their contributions (or labor force) to balance their budgets also.

Bottom line, the law does nothing to provide healthcare to those that could not afford it before because every state had laws on the books that hospitals could not refuse critical care based on ability of the individual to pay for treatment. Now that you must have insurance by federal law, those laws could be removed from the books meaning the poor minimum wage earners (that make too much to qualify for medicaid--state provided low income insurance) might in fact be able to be turned away for treatment when needed.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by matth
 


The big difference (with all due respect) is that countries like yours, healthcare is considered a right.

In America it is not. It is a personal responsibility. An aspect of self-determination. The "right" to seek medical attention, or obtain medical insurance is left soley up to the individual.

Just my humble opinion.


Fair enough...but don't you think that because of the United States' leadership on the world stage (both truthfully and self-proclaimed) that they should be in the front of the line of countries declaring adequate health care a human right for all, if not then just American, citizens? To me this is a no brainer, and a perfect example of how easy it is to be desensitized by human suffering, in their own western country, because they look at it as an election issue or newspaper headline as opposed to seeing for what it really is: human suffering in the name of profits.

People should always come before profits. Always.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:25 PM
link   
reply to post by LR2543
 

Last quarter hospitals, and health plan companies were both showing profit margins of under 5%. There's no real problem there. Try the pharmaceutical companies if you're looking for the current profit leaders in health care.

I think you have been convinced that the problem is somewhere it isn't, by politicians and the press.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by matth

You folks would rather stick up for these health insurance providers and big pharma companies, the same companies that result in the #1 reason for bankruptcy in the United States (medical) as well as the same companies that keep you sick on purpose for return business and make your doctors into nothing more than sales reps for drugs...YOU WOULD RATHER STICK UP FOR THEM...in the name of capitalism...over people who actually need health care and can't afford it? Really?


As far as I can tell Obamacare is all about the federal government mandating people to purchase medical insurance or pay a huge fine for not having it. There is no promise of better care or a lack of death panels, nor the insurers deciding what care you will be provided, except at additional cost to you if they don't approve the doctor's recommendation.

There doesn't appear to be anything free about it. There will still be a co-pay both for doctor visits and prescriptions. I recall paying a $10 co-pay in the US for a prescription I bought over-the-counter here in Mexico for the equivalent of about 50 cents. Plus there are many non-generic medicines prescribed that the co-pays will not cover.

I am retired from the US and living in Mexico and still have medical insurance from my former employers that we share paying the premiums. When Obamacare passed congress my share of the premiums went up about 50%. I keep the coverage for now because if I ever cancel it I cannot get it back again. It is very iffy about ever getting reimbursed by the insurance if I need hospitalization here in Mexico. I am about two months short of five years not setting foot in the US and it is doubtful I ever will again. What is also doubtful and not been answered yet is if I will also be required to maintain the insurance policy or face a fine because I receive a pension from and pay federal taxes to the US even though I live full time in another county.

For the time being I am covered and good to go but if my premiums take another huge hike, as they surely will, I may have to consider dropping coverage. I already pay all my medical bill out of pocket here in Mexico as it is inexpensive and never reaches deductible amounts of my insurance anyway. Plus I can pay for a hospital stay here if it becomes required, though it will tap my savings perhaps severely if my insurance refuses to reimburse any of it.

I'm not condemning anyone for Obamacare, not yet.


Originally posted matth

I currently live in British Columbia and I pay $60/month for my medical premium. It's all through the government but I have to pay it monthly like a cell phone bill...nothing is deducted from my paycheque or anything. If you are a low income resident or receiving assistance they wave the premium as well...most provinces do that... However in other provinces or regions I have lived in such as the Maritimes or Alberta, you don't pay anything for your medical coverage and it is provided as a service from the government.


Lucky you, my portion of the premiums are about 50% higher than yours with a lot of deductible. My retirement pension is about $18k a year. When I become eligible for Social Security I will get a nice raise, most likely, and Medicare - which will NOT be reimbursable here.


edit on 5-7-2012 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:26 PM
link   
Pssst...Alabaster...must of missed this reply:


Originally posted by matth
reply to post by Ex_CT2
 


..."Obamacare" and our system is different, yes. And I hope my first post showed my distain for insurance companies...but making it the law to have health insurance is a step in the right direction considering you all proved in 2009 how afraid you were of "free" health care thanks to the Republican fear-monger machine. This new step can wean you guys off the insurance companies and wean them off your money.


Like I said it's not perfect, but it's a start considering your countries knee jerk reaction last time.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:27 PM
link   
I live in Alberta and we pay nothing towards health care but, I live in a province that reeps huge win falls from our oil and gas sector. This only happened about five years ago when the goverment drop the health care fee's, at that time I was paying about $150 a month for family coverage. In Canada you still have to pay for extended health care through your employer, dental, eye, prescriptions..etc. It's not all free like evryone thinks.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:28 PM
link   
reply to post by matth
 
But American leaders DO put people first. By respecting their freedom of self-determination. Government intervention regardless of the intent or benevolence would eliminate that freedom.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by matth
 
But American leaders DO put people first. By respecting their freedom of self-determination. Government intervention regardless of the intent or benevolence would eliminate that freedom.



While in principal I agree with your statement, but as it pertains to health care (and other topics as well), I think that's just the line of bull they use to feed the general public to justify ripping your off and lining these corporate coffers with cash.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:32 PM
link   
reply to post by charles1952
 


After years of hearing my uncle talk about "big pharma" I guess I shouldn't have forgotten about it. I might have tuned him out somewhat, he really loves politics. Although, I am glad you mentioned it. However, I rarely listen to politicians and more or less go looking for information rather than listen to the media. Thats why I come here.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:33 PM
link   
reply to post by matth
 


100% agree. The US could provide medical care to the entire population with raising taxes 1 cent if it chose to do so by budgeting it out of other expenses.

Free housing, Free education to the doctorate level, Free cars, Free iPods. Anything really, come to think of it, could be provided to every single US citizen at zero cost with the amount of taxes that are already paid and collected currently. But what would be left for people to achieve on their own? What would a person take pride in accomplishing for themselves at that point? It would be a Brave New World indeed at that point, would it not?



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 11:34 PM
link   
reply to post by matth
 


"...don't you think that because of the United States' leadership on the world stage (both truthfully and self-proclaimed) that they should be in the front of the line of countries declaring adequate health care a human right for all, if not then just American, citizens?"

You're not getting it: This is NOT about adequate healthcare. In fact it's not even about healthcare. This is a sellout to Big Pharma and Big Insurance. For Christ's sake listen to us--or look it up.



new topics

top topics



 
17
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join