Will the great tribulation start Oct. 13, 2004 ? Answer is here.

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
People, you GET what you look for. If you want it you can find it, if enough people want something, or think hard enough about it. It will appear.

Your response is not valid in the Fatima case SpittinCobra. These were children that saw the visions not psychotic mad men. Im not sure how these children could have conjured up such bold statements, unless of course Fatima never occured in which case this whole thread is not relevant.

[edit on 7-10-2004 by Linux]

I believe in the visions these children had they saw the future, but I also believe that their visions were influenced by their religiuos beliefs, and then the visions were also tampered by the church views.

Perhaps if we take their visions and take away the religious influence out of it it looks like I said before a terrible war and a lot of death, but form where the middle east.?

Originally posted by Linux


These were children that saw the visions not psychotic mad men. Im not sure how these children could have conjured up such bold statements,
[edit on 7-10-2004 by Linux]

That is the power suggestion. The mind is very poweful, yet fragile.

[edit on 7-10-2004 by SpittinCobra]

I have another theory on Fatima Prophecy.
If I remember correctly, in the messages those kids received there was a talk of POSSIBLE future, if people do not change, repent and live a diferent life.

So, my guess is following: pope John Paul II knew the message, the real message and he tried to change what will happen. If you look at the life and deeds of Pope, his great contribution was the fall of communism. The comunism represents anti-christ, anti-religion. Faith in God is replaced by faith in Dictator and political party. I've lived in such system, God was killed by communist party.
Communism and an all-out war with Russia, middle east possibly siding with them, was supposed to be our future. But due to the fact that some knew what was going to happen, and they managed to change it to some extent, the third prophecy never occured.
Out of fear that the revelation of it might cause a lot of trouble, the Pope revealed the fake prophecy and everything was put to rest.

Originally posted by Valhall
I believe the tribulation will begin in January of 2006. I have logical reasons for believing that.

I don't know about the January part, but from a personal experience I'm saying 2006 as well. Aside from this experience, there are global events that are very reassuring that I'm correct. Here's something to chew on. Look at the price of oil at the beginning of this year, and then recheck in December. My bet is it will be around $60 a barrel. That's nearly double the price. I smell war over this...Wait! That part's already started
*checks news about Iraq*

Well, this is getting off topic. I doubt that anyone could tell you the exact date, but to narrow it down to very soon isn't a far stretch. Maybe the Mayans knew something after all.

Fatima...children see the virgin mary and are given prophecies.
These prophecies are then merged into the book of revelations somehow, to mark the age of tribulation and the "end of Days"

1) if the virgin mary truly appeared to these children and gave prophecy, i do not see how it could be tied into the Bible. The Bible does not give more than a Passing mention of Mary, the mother of Jesus. the bible mentions mary magdelene far more, and in more religious context than Jesus Mother.

2) This would be far closer to the mystery religions, which are based on feminine oracles for divination. The sybilline books, the oracles at Delphi, the cults of Diana, Venus, etc. If this truly occured, it would be far more in line with the religious beliefs that preceeded the Bible by thousands of years. The Church would need to abandon the last 1900 years of their doctrine and assume the beliefs of the people they branded as heretics in the middle ages and burned at the stake, if this is truly what they profess.

3) The church has a vested interest in maintaining "secret" revelations. How else to keep people coming to church.

4) every generation ( as already posted) believes it is the "end of Days"
I remember religious scholars making the case that 1994 was the beginning of tribulations. that was 10 years ago.

Originally posted by toolmaker
Fatima...children see the virgin mary and are given prophecies.
These prophecies are then merged into the book of revelations somehow, to mark the age of tribulation and the "end of Days"

1) if the virgin mary truly appeared to these children and gave prophecy, i do not see how it could be tied into the Bible. The Bible does not give more than a Passing mention of Mary, the mother of Jesus. the bible mentions mary magdelene far more, and in more religious context than Jesus Mother.

2) This would be far closer to the mystery religions, which are based on feminine oracles for divination. The sybilline books, the oracles at Delphi, the cults of Diana, Venus, etc. If this truly occured, it would be far more in line with the religious beliefs that preceeded the Bible by thousands of years. The Church would need to abandon the last 1900 years of their doctrine and assume the beliefs of the people they branded as heretics in the middle ages and burned at the stake, if this is truly what they profess.

3) The church has a vested interest in maintaining "secret" revelations. How else to keep people coming to church.

4) every generation ( as already posted) believes it is the "end of Days"
I remember religious scholars making the case that 1994 was the beginning of tribulations. that was 10 years ago.

Clarification ?: the children have a vision of the image of 'Mary'

then over many visionary visits, 'Mary'image gives them 3 'secrets' [to be given to the church] (ie. the Catholic church specifically)

The 2 revealed secrets from Fatima...were never put in with Bible prophecy or the book of Revelation. These Fatima revelations are adjuncts to world stresses/wars/tragedies and an as yet unrevealed 3rd secret concerning world strife & warning and a dire situation for the Catholic church & faith

re # 1. true, Mary is downsized in scripture..The same 'Mary' is also very prominent in the Catholic church...hence the image of her appearing to the young Catholic children...an image of Buddah would have been out of context within the childrens worldview, no?

re #2. true, the goddess cults abounded, even today non Catholics point out that 'Mary' worship is Idolatry..

re #3. sure...the 'hook'...but also...what if the secret was really damaging to the Catholic church,,wouldn't it be 'hushed up'?

re #4. yes, every generation will show 'proof' its the last generation...one must make a distinction between the macro world view and the personal microview as we individually age & die off

toolmaker, thanks for listening...i guess

Having read the predictions of Fatima and weighed them against the Vatican's interpretation, I can honestly say that I am yet to be impressed.

Originally posted by dbates
Look at the price of oil at the beginning of this year, and then recheck in December. My bet is it will be around $60 a barrel.
...
Well, this is getting off topic.

Not at all. Oil prices and Fatima are two pieces of the same puzzle.
The name is "end an evil system" and what you can see is an exponential curve.

For centuries human's have claimed that this is the end. The Signs of the Times. Prove to me how this time it is different and definate? The Bible tells us that we won't know when it is time.

Matthew 25:13 "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour...�

And He will come like a thief in the night.

I Thessalonians 5:4,9-10 "For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him."

[edit on 11-10-2004 by deeprivergal]

deeprivergal, what you say is correct in my opinion.

People are trying to find every bit of evidence to point to the exact time of the return of Christ, however, this is not possible for only God himself knows the hour.

I think what is important is not to worry about how exactly it will end, and who is the antichrist etc, but focus on knowing your Bible and living a clean life to be an example to others.

Christ warns that many will come in his name, trying to deceive, even casting out demons. It says in the Bible 'By their fruits you will know them.'
'Narrow is the road to salvation, broad is the road to hell'. This in my mind suggests that many will be deceived and not many will want to hear or know the truth.

Just my thoughts.........

Originally posted by shmick25

People are trying to find every bit of evidence to point to the exact time of the return of Christ, however, this is not possible for only God himself knows the hour.

Well i wish he'd hurry it up or else Christ will be returning to a big pile of radioactive rocks and maybe some plants that are neon pulsing.

If you are a Christian, you should always think the time is near. You shouldn't think, ok well I'll do this and I'll have time to redeem myself. No worries. Because there will be that one time, that instant, where it's over.

Personally I wish He would hurry up... I'm ready to go.

Well, I certainly hope not. That's the day after my birthday! What a serious downer that would be!

True christians will be removed before the tribulation period. And there could also be a time period between the 2 events.

Prophecy:

1.) An inspired utterance of a prophet, viewed as a revelation of divine will.
2.) A prediction of the future, made under divine inspiration.
3.) Such an inspired message or prediction transmitted orally or in writing.

After clarifying the definition for myself, I have just one response/question:

I was unaware that our future(s) were set in stone. Nothing has been planned out, not even by your God. Playing is by ear is how I see it. So, therefore, how could you make a prediction/prophecy about anything and have it come true? Change one tiny little thing and wham, no more prophecy.
Why is everyone in such a hurry to go? You honestly think your only purpose it to love/worship God in this life so that when it is time to go you get to be with him? Just asking not flaming anyone.

In case no one ever told you this before I'll say it now, dead people do no talk, they're dead! If anyone ever tells you that dead people talk then they are telling you a lie! Satan and his demons (on the other hand) will tell you anything and everything you want to hear, except the truth!

BTW, Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father and He most certainly knows the time. That scripture verse is speaking in past tense, in fact, it is not even referring to the timing of the Great Tribulation.

Oh yeah, one other thing, "true Christians" will go through the tribulation just like the Bible says. Who ever told you they will not lied to you! Might I suggest you get a Bible and read it for yourself!

neverfear

These children claim to have been visited by the "Virgin Mary"...
Well, how do they know what the Virgin Mary looks like?! There are no photographs or descriptions of what she looked like. For all we know, it could have been the Virgin Matilda that they saw.
Thats what kills me about all these Virgin Mary sightings! People say, "Ooo, I saw the Virgin in a mud puddle yesterday!" or, "I saw her in a cloud!". The undisputed and undeniable fact is that, nobody who is alive today has any idea what she looked like!

Besides that Mary is dead. Dead people do not talk or walk or appear anywhere, they're dead!

I cant understand why people believe in Rapture, and that christians will be removed from earth before the tribulation. Where does it say this in the Bible?

What would the point of being taking to heaven, then being bought back down just to be taken back up again at the second comming? Doesnt seem logical to me.

I wouldnt be holding my breath for this so called rapture to happen.

Show me the Bible verses!