Alternative view for "object incoming" theories: Movement in another dimension

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posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Most discussion about some "object" or "force" or "energy field" etc. that may or may not be incoming into the solar system focus on things that would be moving in 3D space and thus detectable by our 3D instruments.

In the story of Flatland, a being who lives in 2 dimensions only is given a chance to view things from the 3rd dimension. I'm assuming most people here are familiar with the concept/story.

If there was an object moving in 3D space that was above the 2D Flatlander plane but the trajectory was going to cause it to pass through the 2D Flatlander plane eventually... the newly liberated Flatlander would be able to see this object, and with a little help of 3D math calculate when and where it would intersect the 2D Flatlander universe.

With this information, the Flatlander would return to his native environment and would be incapable of explaining WHY his information was correct, except by loose metaphor.

For example... say they live at coordinates (1,1). There is a town nearby called "Flatter" at (2,2).

Now if the object in 3D space were currently at (2,2,2)... the Flatlander would be forced to say "It is in the area near Flatter, but 'higher' than Flatter".

Anyone in the Flatland who went to (2,2) and investigated Flatter would see nothing and wouldn't be able to detect "higher". The Flatlander who had seen the object would be left with nothing to work with but their audience's imagination. Probably by describing 1D beings dealing with understanding 2D and the implications.


This viewpoint has no less validity when contemplating our own situation. The trouble is of course... until you or I personally have a "shift" to "3D" from our own version of "2D"... we will have no better options than the "blind" Flatlanders in the example above.

We can see how painful it is to watch the non-"ascended" Flatlanders laugh at someone who is telling them the truth. We just want them to stop thinking they know everything and listen... but how many of us are capable of doing it ourselves when we realize that's quite possibly where we are?

We boggle at how someone could "predict so far in the future". When you are a 3D being it's easy to predict something that is literally impossible for the 2D being to predict. Children of 3D can do what few if any in 2D could do.

We wonder why "they" say "in the area *we* would call Sirius", but it's always implied it's not *exactly* there and even seems a little funny to them. Which it would be for something at say (90,000,1,1) being called "near" something at (3,2,2) relative to something at (3,8,8) which is clearly closer... but those living in "2D" would say it was farther. This would be amusing in conversation with the "lower" dimensions.

It's even possible that the 3D object about to intersect the 2D plane will start causing subtle side effects to the plane. The 2D beings will have nothing but their 2D data to work with though so they would only be able to infer by being very clever to consider the possibility of an object moving in dimensions higher than themselves was causing the effects they were seeing. Say a hot object moving closer. The area would heat up with no "source" to point to in 2D even though from 3D it is obvious.

Someone in 3D would be able to easily see and describe the effects of the object as it got closer to the 2D plane, but their description would still sound "crazy" in 2D conceptualization and "common sense".

Something to think about and perhaps a different filter we should run our ancient/modern ideas through? Many of our ancient myths and philosophies demonstrate structural traits similar to how we would be forced to describe 3D concepts to 2D beings.

I should really make some images to help demonstrate.


Namaste.
edit on 2012/7/5 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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It's an understanding & implimentation of this concept that will ultimately provide answers to that which we don't understand or can't currently explain about 9/11. The perpetrators of 9/11 were 'thinking outside the.box' when planning the day. We need to the same if we are to find them.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by Nonchalant
 


Keep your 9/11 chocolate out of my Nibiru peanut butter.

2nd.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 05:11 PM
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SO... Nibiru is in a 5th dimension object/ existance/reality

but we only see 'ghost images' of the object as it wanders through the galaxy
then this 5th dimension object linked to our solar system in a 3,600~ year orbit ... assails all this 4th dimension system of planets/Sun with destructive influences... (does not make sense to me)


i just cannot justify the Nibiru effect being anything meaningful if that were the case
a 5th dimension object might have only the effects that the Moon has on our Tides here on Earth and would not completely disorganize the Planets & the 'music-of-the-spheres'...creating all the dizzying effects we attribute to the unknown-force we call Nibiru (planet X)
edit on 5-7-2012 by St Udio because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by St Udio
 

I'm trying to be careful to not make any claims about what an object would be, or what the effects would be. They could be any number of things. The purpose is to provide an alternative worldview to filter everything we're "told" or hear through.

It's more of a philosophical point, but is very relevant to the plethora of "nonsensical" or "nonscientific" ideas that are discussed regarding 2012 in general. It provides a foundation that allows many of the claims to be back on a firm ground scientifically and conceptually (not necessarily factually).

The idea of dimensions and their ability to influence our own is already a relatively mainstream scientific concept to explore.
edit on 2012/7/5 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by ColAngus
 

I think it's actually kind of interesting how many concepts can fit into this candy bar. I even tried to work some global warming caramel in there.


But when you really think about it... it couldn't be any other way except that the dimensional step up would clearly show how and why so many seemingly separate things are intimately connected.
edit on 2012/7/5 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 05:39 PM
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Ahh flatland, things are so much simpler there. I often try to use the step up in dimension exercise of flatland and lineland, to visualize a higher dimensions "section" that could be visable to us three d'ers. It's logical to assume some part would be visable to us. You mentioned making illustrations, draw one of 4, or 5, intesecting with 3. I'd love to see that
awesome subject matter, should be a cool thread s&f for ya



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by ColAngus
reply to post by Nonchalant
 


Keep your 9/11 chocolate out of my Nibiru peanut butter.

2nd.


That was a brilliant comment! Thank you it brought a big smile and chuckle. A star for you, I wish I could give you a thousand. PEACE.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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We can only imagine with a 3D mind as we are as of yet not connected, not tapped into that massive super consciousness, that magnificent internet that is the consciousness that the rest of the multiverse is connected to. We can't be, because you must be trusted to use unlimited energy in a manner that is not avaristic but is altruistic and since sociopaths currently run this planet, that leaves us out. They're still debating IF there is such a thing as intelligent life on other planets, if there is such a thing as UFO's right here on ATS, how do you propose to have these "flatlanders" discuss the larger, obvious question which is that, what IS happening to and around this planet right now is not of this dimension and/or is beyond the visible spectrum. ( 95% of everything in the Universe is not within the visible spectrum.)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 07:08 PM
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But even if we are in contact with higher dimensions 3D experiancing 4D manipulation how can you persive what you do not have senses for?

Example a person feeling a physical feeling on his head that he can describe as angels carresing his head sometimes or as a wind blowing thru a lotus flower on the top of his dead? As long as the person is blind to the 4D he will not be able to see what the feeling really is? Everything is just speculation until he can examine what it is. Especially since his body is limited to 3D and cannot move in 4D.

So the person needs new senses to explore 4D or even higher dimensions since the body is stuck in 3D. And I do not mean 4D as time whatever discussions about Synchronicity we might have. I want to seperate time and space as a 1D time and 4D vector based room/scale/space.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by apushforenlightment
 

This is our challenge. What *can* we do? We have many examples of people writing who say they have managed it, and their language and descriptions are identical to trying to describe a higher dimension and how we would describe 3D to 2D.

So yeah... when I feel that "tingle" and I say inwardly "I feel you" and get an even larger response in return... I have no concept what just happened. I might have just been "pet" the way a puppy is. Or I might have had an injection the way an insane patient does. Or I might have just been raped and mind controlled to believe it was pleasure. Or I might have just had amazingly intimate and honest communion. We just can't know.

So what do we do? Some ignore it. Some depend upon and use other people's descriptions (which works until their personal experience contradicts the "other self's" structure). Few decide to tell their own story and adapting their story as their experience informs them.

Namaste



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by HEYJOSE
 

When a Flatlander is ready to acknowledge the flatland right next to them and in truth inseparable from them, then there is no need to "get" them to discuss it, they won't be able to help themselves.

The universe would be boring if everyone existed on the same dimension (we already know we're bored of being the only being... thus why we became all of us). So those ready to move to Shapeland shouldn't lament the Flatlanders anymore than those ready to move from Shapeland to Thoughtland should lament our ascent out of Flatland.

Namaste.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 07:53 PM
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So....would this possibly explain the occassional sighting of things in our current 2D plane that shouldn't be here?
[shadow people, thunderbirds ect.....]

Just curious.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by Caver78
 

That's precisely what you would expect to see if something moving through a higher dimension were to pass through our "plane" of existence.

The fundamental notion that even one dimension above ours being a tangible maleable navigable space would explain an enormous amount of "unexplainable" events isn't a new one, but is often skipped over outside of fiction, especially when trying to collect data or explain conditions where the "stranger" things will/won't work. And also why it's so unpredictable. But just like a Flatlander would be foolish to reject 3D in their considerations, we're foolish to do the same.

Especially if there is an intelligence manipulating things as well.

For example... imagine you playing with 2D beings on an iPhone. You want to speak "in person" with a group of mystics, but refuse to reveal yourself to the Flatlanders who refuse to even consider the notion of a 3D space. You will be easily capable of preventing those who doubt and are arrogant in their doubt from ever having a chance to see. The wise Flatlander mystic will know to ignore the skeptic and trust what they themselves have seen/understood, etc.

Add dimensions above those and it gets even stranger, but also easier to explain almost every "absurd" claim humanity has ever come up with.

Much of our entertainment industry is actually just a big giant metaphor "from above" trying to get our attention. Why do you think when so many people "wake up" they stop needing/wanting as many normal society "toys". They are playing with a new set of toys that can only be really explored from here with the mind.


Namaste.
edit on 2012/7/8 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 10:08 PM
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Thank you for that answer. I was worried the example of weird reports of things or beings was too far off the mark fof your OP for an answer at all. S an F btw.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by Caver78
 

Once you can really see how the Flatlander 2D to 3D scenario looks and visualize it for our 3D to 4D... those things actually become absolutely not weird, just something we're not used to. But logically they make perfect sense. Similar to how it used to be a mind bender that the earth went around the sun, but now most people take it for granted. Eventually people will take it for granted that there are dimensions/planes parallel to ours and it is possible for them to intersect our perception the same way the sphere intersected Flatland.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion
 


Excellent post.

The real issue, as I see it and have experienced with with others, is the eyes. When you are speaking of "perception" you are speaking of a totality of connection via the 5 senses and more. What most folks "think" is there entire reality of perception is what they see with their eyes - possibly their weakest sense. In fact, I dare say you'd have a MUCH easier time sharing this topic with blind people. What we "see" as 3d is a part of 3d, what we hear of 3d is a part of 3d and the totality of the sensory systems input is 3d. The problem lies in the horrendous limitation of those basic 5 senses, and the even worse planetary wide programming that has rendered the brain's ability to perceive anything outside those systems other than independently. When we "look" at the sun we just "see it," it stops there. We never include the sound (there is plenty of it) the smell (subtle to be sure) the feel (we know it a bit) and even the taste in our assessment of the sun. When we do this, put it all together with some other subtle senses and it shows us something entirely different the a ball of gas.

The machines people created to "perceive" things only enhance the already weak senses. Space isn't out there, there is nothing out there, all is in here, but they eyes tell is otherwise, so we build telescopes to look further out. For those stuck in the "eye is everything" world, incoming means "as the eyes perceive out to in." When in reality incoming means, from within to out, and not to be seen with the eyes except as a reminder or mirror of the incoming in to out.

People, over the last 2k years, have been trained to "want to see it" and have lost their ability to want to "know it." You can't simply talk to a person who believes all is seen and all that is seen is all there is, about things from within, as the within is the flatland folks verses the 3d folks, it isn't about seeing, it is about knowing. So when folks read what you wrote, they can't "see" it but you are discussing knowing it - they aren't ready if they are stuck on seeing.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by crankyoldman
 

Thank you... and I agree completely. The only helpful response is patience and to continue "pointing at the moon".

Thankfully (or perhaps not) someone very close to me is currently locked into "see it" not "conceive it", so I'm getting a lot of practice. It's good because it does force me to really make sure there is a solid foundation for the reasoning, but it's rough because you can only come up with so many metaphors and analogies and comparisons of their own thinking that they take for granted now that wasn't "see-able" so easily before newer instruments were developed.

I think when I sit down and do some animated images it will help get some people who are close over the hump.


Namaste!



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion
 


Thanks ergo for directing me to this post from the "my gf has a theory about nibiru thread. I think im actually beginning to understand dimensions. Thanks for explaining it so well




posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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So using this type of analogy we could in fact all be 2 Dimensional beings after all, think of a book with a 1000 pages in it with the story of our lives encoded into it. Outside of time and really only comes into existence if someone comes along and reads it ? Observer ? soul ? us ?





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