It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

I need a little clarification please!

page: 1
3
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:34 PM
link   
Last night, I went down to the beach to see my boyfriends family for a little bit (he had left by this time). It was cold and overcast so we sat around in the house and talked. There was a topic we discussed and it reminded me that they're atheist (im christian). I started to think about atheism and how they live different than I do, if they did at all.

I thought of a question that ended my curiosity for the night....

Christmas is Jesus Christ's birthday, and Easter is the day when we celebrate Jesus Christ rising from the dead.
Why do atheists celebrate biblical holidays if they're not believers?

I'm not trying to tell anyone who can or can't celebrate these holidays, its always wonderful to gather with family for a yummy dinner and PRESENTS of course and it's an American tradition. But, to me, this tradition is because I have a relationship with god. It wouldn't be a holiday if it weren't for god.

Someone please help! Haha! Why have atheist forgotten about the most important parts of these holidays?




posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:37 PM
link   
You about to be flamed and beaten by know it alls in 3...2.....1



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:39 PM
link   
reply to post by BreeAnna00
 


Cause most Atheists know that those "biblical" holiday's were mostly stolen from Pagan rituals that had nothing to do with "God" and everything to do with nature and each other.

~Tenth



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:41 PM
link   
reply to post by BreeAnna00
 


These holidays have become very commercialized. It's really hard to find any sort of Christian meaning to them outside of the Church. Sure, we have services to commemorate the days; but in society as a whole that's not how it works anymore. I think those who hold other faiths may also take note that Christmas and Easter are both analogues, the actual day isn't known so we celebrate on the closest approximation.

The same question can be asked for why Christians celebrate Halloween. Again, I think it's because holidays are more commercial than anything else these days.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:41 PM
link   
Honestly why do we as Christians celebrate those days...

They are pagan holidays enacted by rome to make the religion more tolerable to the masses.

So atheist really have just as much right to the holiday as we christians do.


Romans 14:6


He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.


keep in mind its okay to celebrate as long as the above reasons are why, but if your doing it for presents and fun, while... thats not really a christian holiday than.





Someone please help! Haha! Why have atheist forgotten about the most important parts of these holidays?


Umm do yourself a favor and look into these holidays on your own, research the tree and ornaments, you may be shocked...

Or the rabbit and egg thing, thats fertility festival.
edit on 5-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:42 PM
link   
reply to post by BreeAnna00
 


Theres nothing "Christian" about those holidays my dear... both were "borrowed" from pagan origins...

The real reason they participate is for presents and chocolate... obviously who wouldn't?




posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:48 PM
link   
Because everyone likes getting prezzies and eating chocolate bunnies


Actually, I'd guess that very few atheists actually "celebrate" Easter, and Christmas is such a secular holiday that, apart from being offended by the name, I don't think it poses any real issue (unless you want to put a tree up at City Hall, that seems to get a lot of 'em pretty indignant.)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:51 PM
link   
Hello,

Christmas Day is not actually Jesus's birthday nor was it a traditionally Christian holiday. It became a Christian holiday due to the church wanting to overwrite a pagan holiday....the southern soltace. No-one knows when Jesus was born. When Christians started to celebrate the birth of Jesus, they selected a variety of dates, which finally ended up being narrowed down to the 25th December.

I do hope you know that 'pagan' really means nothing other than 'non-believer'. It was also used to label people living in the villages before Christianity absorbed them. There is nothing frightening about pagans. They were just people who didn't believe in Jesus or people who'd never even heard of him and were just living their lives as happy as Larry.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:51 PM
link   
They celebrate these holidays because they were forced upon Americans from the time they were born. It's the whole America is a christian nation delusion.

I have a question for you. Do you know when Jesus was really born? If you think it was in December your wrong. Jesus was born when the shepherds watched their flocks at night. This means he was born in the summer time not in the dead of winter. His birthday was moved to the 25th of December by the church in 336AD in a attempt to get rid of the Roman holiday Saturnalia.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by BreeAnna00
 


Theres nothing "Christian" about those holidays my dear... both were "borrowed" from pagan origins...


You're calling the Jews Pagans? That's pretty bold :-)


The real reason they participate is for presents and chocolate... obviously who wouldn't?


I need to learn to post quicker - you beat me to the prezzies and choco joke!



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:56 PM
link   
reply to post by adjensen
 





You're calling the Jews Pagans? That's pretty bold :-)


hes not calling jews pagans, hes sayng the origin of christmas, the winter festival, or yule, or Dies Natalis Solis Invicti. Which are the origins for the date of christmas and the celebrations.

You see, all those pagan beliefs liked their winter festival, so when rome said they had to be christian everyone wanted to keep those festivals, SO Constantine incorporated them into christianity.

Constantine was no saint as the Catholics believe, he was the greatest pervert-er of the new religion and lead to the Roman Catholic church.

is it any wonder that a church that rose from the corruption of Rome, lead to some of the greatest wars in history, and to this day has rampant children abuse in it to this day?
edit on 5-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:59 PM
link   
reply to post by adjensen
 



You're calling the Jews Pagans? That's pretty bold :-)


Only from a "christian" perspective... they tend to call everything "pagan"


Personally i don't use the term... its just another label.




posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 04:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by BreeAnna00
Last night, I went down to the beach to see my boyfriends family for a little bit (he had left by this time). It was cold and overcast so we sat around in the house and talked. There was a topic we discussed and it reminded me that they're atheist (im christian). I started to think about atheism and how they live different than I do, if they did at all.

I thought of a question that ended my curiosity for the night....

Christmas is Jesus Christ's birthday, and Easter is the day when we celebrate Jesus Christ rising from the dead.
Why do atheists celebrate biblical holidays if they're not believers?

I'm not trying to tell anyone who can or can't celebrate these holidays, its always wonderful to gather with family for a yummy dinner and PRESENTS of course and it's an American tradition. But, to me, this tradition is because I have a relationship with god. It wouldn't be a holiday if it weren't for god.

Someone please help! Haha! Why have atheist forgotten about the most important parts of these holidays?


Who is cold enough to refuse a time to celebrate with friends and family because of religious beliefs? Oh wait—Christians are.

Christians celebrate christmas because it's Christ's birthday. Those who aren't christian celebrate it for other reasons.
edit on 5-7-2012 by TheSubversiveOne because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 04:01 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


Words have meaning and definition, no mater how much you don't like labels, it doesn't change the definition.

In this case I am using pagan to describe the beliefs during the current time of rome, which changing the state religion in rome, it would mean that those beliefs outside it where pagan to the state...


edit on 5-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 04:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by adjensen
 





You're calling the Jews Pagans? That's pretty bold :-)


hes not calling jews pagans, hes sayng the origin of christmas, the winter festival, or yule, or Dies Natalis Solis Invicti. Which are the origins for the date of christmas and the celebrations.


Actually, I was referring to Easter, which is tied to the Jewish Passover, not Christmas, and Akragon knows I was just goofing.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 04:34 PM
link   
reply to post by BreeAnna00
 


In one sense it can be an act to show love for other people, which is rare for athiests in my opinion and would be an act of genuine integrity. I have seen athiests say that they believe in good, but something seems to block them from being good in the form of love for other people. Good people who still don't care about others in the world. Good people who even care about others in the world but when they step outside in the world they just fear everybody with their head down or want to persuade them for selfish reasons. I think spirituality and love is like proving God, because athiests don't demonstrate love in the world but religious people don't either. It is number one in my mind to communicate with others for the means of acknowledging them, which is a sign of respect to humanity, and all of my body language and actions doing so will provide the conscious acknowlege by them that I am truthful. If we really thought of ourselves as 'brothers and sisters' then we would percieve each others as so.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 04:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by benrl
Honestly why do we as Christians celebrate those days...

They are pagan holidays enacted by rome to make the religion more tolerable to the masses.

So atheist really have just as much right to the holiday as we christians do.


This is partially true. What the Roman Catholic church did was changed pagan holidays into religious holidays as a means of manipulating the pagans out of their beliefs. In reality most Christian holidays are set exactly one day after the Pagan holiday in question. Example Halloween aka All Hallows Eve, and the Church came up with All Souls Day or All Saints Day directly following Halloween.

Both Easter and Christmas were created dates to counter Pagan holidays, which lead to the actual movement of the dates.

This is the religious aspect of the dates, but I would also like to point out that Christmas and Easter have become a far more commercial instance then a religious one at this point. I have always wondered how governments take these days as holdiays when it is in direct violation of the Church and State seperation. That is beside the point as I thoroughly enjoy my days off


However, being that they are Athiest I fail to see whether it matters if they celebrate a Christian or Pagan holiday. They can do whatever they want. They are athiest. I mean that is almost in a sense contending that Athiesm is a religion that has rules.
edit on 7/5/2012 by Phantom28804 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 05:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by greyer
reply to post by BreeAnna00
 


In one sense it can be an act to show love for other people, which is rare for athiests in my opinion and would be an act of genuine integrity. I have seen athiests say that they believe in good, but something seems to block them from being good in the form of love for other people.


I don't believe that is a reasonable conclusion -- there are plenty of compassionate atheists, just as there are plenty of compassionate theists. It may be easy to think otherwise, given the levels of pomposity and arrogance of some of the leading names among the New Atheists, but don't paint everyone with that wide of a brush.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 05:30 PM
link   
reply to post by buster2010
 



I have a question for you. Do you know when Jesus was really born? If you think it was in December your wrong. Jesus was born when the shepherds watched their flocks at night. This means he was born in the summer time not in the dead of winter. His birthday was moved to the 25th of December by the church in 336AD in a attempt to get rid of the Roman holiday Saturnalia.

Dionysus should also be considered in setting this date, considering his popularity in Greece, the Middle East, and even Jerusalem. And considering the parallels between himself and Christ.


Dionysus is another savior-god whose birth was observed on DEC-25. He was worshipped throughout much of the Middle East as well as in Greece. He had a center of worship in Jerusalem in the 1st century BCE. Some ancient coins were found in Gaza with Dionysus on one side and JHWH (Jehovah) on the other. In later years, his flesh and blood were symbolically eaten in the form of bread and wine. He was viewed as the son of Zeus, the Father God.


There is also Osiris:

Osiris is a savior-god who had been worshipped as far back as Neolithic times. "He was called Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods...the Resurrection and the Life, the Good shepherd...the god who 'made men and women be born again'" 4 Three wise men announced his birth. His followers ate cakes of wheat which symbolized his body.


Worship of Osiris, and celebration of his DEC-25 birth, spread to many places in the Roman Empire by the end of the 1st century BCE. This worship continues today among followers of Kemetism -- a neopagan revival of ancient Egyptian religions.


And of course, Mithra:

Mithra was a Persian god-man and savior. Worship of Mithra became common throughout the Roman Empire, particularly among the civil service and military. Mithraism was a competitor of Christianity until the 4th century when Christianity became the state religion and Mithraism was suppressed, and its priests exiled or executed. Mithra was believed to have been born on DEC-25, circa 500 BCE. His birth was witnessed by shepherds and by gift-carrying Magi. His birthday was celebrated as the "Dies Natalis Solic Invite," The "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun." Some followers believed that he was born of a virgin. During his life, he performed many miracles, cured many illnesses, and cast out devils. He celebrated a Last Supper with his 12 disciples. He was believed to have ascended to Heaven at the time of the spring equinox, about March 21. 1 His birth as the "Sun of Righteousness" was celebrated on DEC-25.

Source

Seems December 25th was just an all around good date to please many peoples.
edit on 7/5/2012 by Klassified because: link



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 05:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by Phantom28804

Originally posted by benrl
Honestly why do we as Christians celebrate those days...

They are pagan holidays enacted by rome to make the religion more tolerable to the masses.

So atheist really have just as much right to the holiday as we christians do.


This is partially true. What the Roman Catholic church did was changed pagan holidays into religious holidays as a means of manipulating the pagans out of their beliefs. In reality most Christian holidays are set exactly one day after the Pagan holiday in question. Example Halloween aka All Hallows Eve, and the Church came up with All Souls Day or All Saints Day directly following Halloween.


Um... no. In the first place, what led the early Church to establish Christmas when it did (as no one knew when Jesus was born) was to give converted Pagans something to do. The existing Roman festivals included foods that had been sacrificed to a god, which was explicitly forbidden, so a devout Christian could no longer attend these parties. So what do you do with that? Give them their own alternative, of course.

Secondly, they are not "one day after the Pagan holiday" -- Christmas, for example, is four days after the Winter Solstice, the holiday in question there. And "All Hallows Eve" is a Christian holiday ("hallows", as in "hallowed", like the Saints on the day for which All Hallows Eve is the "eve" of,) that was the replacement for the Celtic harvest festival of Samhain.


Both Easter and Christmas were created dates to counter Pagan holidays, which lead to the actual movement of the dates.


Perhaps you haven't read the New Testament or you glossed over some of the details -- it is well documented that Christ was killed during the Jewish festival of Passover, which happens at a very specific time during the year. The date had absolutely nothing to do with any Pagan holidays.




top topics



 
3
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join