The Many Hands Played By Race – A Multitude of Opinions & Thoughts

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Sort of amazing how in the 21st century we still judge people by appearance as opposed to skill set, mindset and worth.

I suppose this is what it is all about, considering that all race is, at the end of the day, is the colour of your skin.

At least in my opinion.

~Tenth

Absolutely.

But on the other side, and as is almost always forgotten, the color of YOUR skin is equally irrelevant. Let me explain....if you identify yourself by your race, you are acting racist as well. I have a gay son, and when he grappled with his sexuality in his teen years, I would constantly remind him, "Being gay is what you are, not who you are. NEVER let what you are dictate who you are."

The same can be said with skin color. A popular phenomenon for discussion is the different in "black" and "white" culture. Why would a black person be heckled for "acting too white"? And why would a white person be ridiculed for acting "too black" (a la Malibu's Most Wanted)?

I can't answer why people do some of the stupid things that they do. I can only watch (sometimes in horror, like with Rodney King) and take note. I guess in so doing I am reinforcing my own prejudices. For example, I don't like police officers because of my lifetime of seeing police officers treat hispanic teens badly.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
"Being gay is what you are, not who you are. NEVER let what you are dictate who you are."

That is exactly how we should look upon any distinction, even gender, perhaps even, eventually, our humanity, but not yet, one step at a time. But big yes to that.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Yeah the labels that we want to apply to ourselves always do more harm than good.

Sexual orientation especially. I mean I'm gay, my husband and I have raised 4 children, and it's funny we struggled with the image issue of our family far more than they did. To them it was natural, there was nothing wrong, they understood that other families were different and for what reasons too.

And your're right people who identify themselves by their skin color are often being "racist" and I make it a point to tell people that. You can identify by your culture, that's entirely different, for example I'm Acadian and proud to be so.

But being White has nothing to do with it.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Sexual orientation especially. I mean I'm gay, my husband and I have raised 4 children, and it's funny we struggled with the image issue of our family far more than they did. To them it was natural, there was nothing wrong, they understood that other families were different and for what reasons too.

This I think is what is so important, setting the example of acceptance of others, and of more importantly of self. When we accept ourselves, for who we really are, we don't judge others, because there is no need to do so. The majority of prejudice is based upon pointing the finger at others preemptively before they do it to us.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Psh, i really don't even identify culture. I guess i abstractly identify with being Hungarian. But not that much, really (mostly only when I am being humorous). I definitely identify my wife as latina. She has all the latina traits, and it makes her absolutely gorgeous. Then again, i find indian (both the feather and the dot) to be attractive, as well as many middle eastern and pacific island....i like the bronze/copper skin and dark hair. Its visually pleasing.

But my true heritage would be German, I suppose. I just realized this a few months ago. My father was originally of a German surname. When his mom died, he was adopted by her English brother and his cherokee wife. He was raised without cultural identity. I really didn't even associate with him, but the lack of cultural identity carries on today.

I tell my sons that we have no past. We have no story. It all starts with us. Our legacy is what we create together. My name exists elsewhere, but it is fairly rare. And no one in the region has it. So i have nothing tying me down to any preconceived notions that I do not create on my own. It all starts here. Yes, it is a burden. But the burden of freedom is a burden I will accept any day.

Ahhhh,

Time to stir the pot?

I feel impishly inclined to do so ....

Now we all revel in the practice of congratulating our open-minded nature; our ability to accept that it is foolish to reduce any person to one or more of their attributes as individuals; even the genius of rising beyond the typically western need to label all manner of concepts and pretend they are "real."

But shall we explore this maxim on a larger scale? Here things become much more difficult to navigate.

All ashore that's going ashore!

I find it ironic that we are almost instinctively driven to recognize the very "attributes" we carry as part of our 'self-identification.'

It's like someone relaying a sad circumstance to us, and we cannot resist relaying our own sad circumstance.

It's a train wreck of dissonance to me.

(Of course, this is all in jest.)

Funny though, that we can't understand how we invite danger when we "embrace" our heritage or the culture of our forefathers....

"A man cannot be held responsible for who his ancestors slept with." must be an anachronism which I have never properly understood.

What if my culture was still expressing collective emotional trauma over some past slight, which took place long before my time... and their quarrel had been, and culturally remained, against your culture. How would that angst transcribe to me? Would it be an act of defiance and social suicide to reject the past slight and accept you and honor you as I would one of my own people? Or would I gain social currency if I engaged in some offensive diatribe about the misdeeds of your forefathers?

It is clear that such baggage is entirely inconsequential, unless I make it consequential by 'realizing' the friction and following the path of confrontation. The same could be said of any theoretical person I suppose.

The fact that you (pejoratively speaking) happen to be (again in theory) a different color from my people, or dress differently, or speak differently... any of these things could rise to the level of apparent bias....

Why "apparent"? and not actual?

Because how I choose to see you is my domain, where I am king, I make the rules. If I choose to hate you, no force of reason will overcome it.... Hatred is not bias. But hatred can hide bias... this we know.

Does anyone see where this path leads?

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I'm fairly certain I'm white. Let me look in a mirror. Yup... I'm white.

These "were all Humans" arguments are complete BS. YES there are different races, (3 to be exact) and there are thousands of ethnicity's, thousands of cultures.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I've seen this thread on the first page a few times and decided I would ignore it. However, for some odd reason I clicked on it and almost 2 hours later I have finally read the OP. I'm glad that I did. Well done.

S&F

reply to post by Rockpuck


What are those three races?

I am curious as to why we have the term "human race" to begin with? Are there humans, then 2 other races according to that logic? Or is "human race" a misnomer?

perhaps race is a division created by people who enjoy capitalizing on division?

I have pondered this question for a long time...i even started a thread on it "What Constitutes

Racism." Sometimes i think we walk on egg shells and bend over backwards in case we are

perceived as 'racist'


I have brought up children and g.children with good manners and not to hurt others, and on

the principal of 'Do unto others as you would they should do unto you'...That said i think

'political correctness' has a lot to answer for!


Over the last few years many things have been erroded at the instagation of the 'pc' brigade

A couple of examples of what i mean Children are no longer allowed to use the nursery

rhyme "ba ba black sheep...and there is the saying - he/she is the black sheep of the

family...(all before racism)...It seems that the word "black" is now unacceptable...WHY"

WHO decided that 'black' was any more offensive than red, yellow, brown or white??

It is what it is.


I have an autistic grandson who is 25yrs but will forever be 7. I love how simplistic he is.

(he has no sophisticated social skills, he has ecololia and he doesn't understand the

concept of lying) Recently he went to the dentist, and the first thing he said to me on his

return was 'that he had a new chocolate dentist' ...he said what he saw...one couldn't take

offence and no offence was meant!

The conclusion i drew from that is it's not so much what you say but the manner in which

it is conveyed. He himself is at risk as an easy target for being bullied or picked on

because of his 'difference'


Someone on the thread mentioned 'birds of a feather flocking together' ...well thats a

natural trait among humans, when you get a lot of people together they always tend

to gravitate towards those they feel most comfortable with.


What i like about these forums...everyone is faceless (and sometimes sexless )

and opinions and even friendships are formed on the 'meeting of minds'


I was looking for another word instead of race...but i couldn't find a better one and i think

we still need such a word as there are many people proud of their 'racial heritage' and

don't want to just come out in the mix. The word breed came to mind, but i dismissed

it when i thought about my daughters three dogs, who are all a 'different' breed!

I agree that individuals should be judged by their skills and not skin color
however to say that the only difference in what we call the "races" is skin color is a big statement to say.
I don't think our current knowledge on genetics and neural science is enough to arrive to that conclusion

One example were race can be very important is in the medical field. Some drugs can have different effects depending on your genetic lineage. So the best treatment for a caucasian might not be the best treatment for a black or asian etc.

therefore saying:

"I’ve started calling people racist for just mentioning anything regarding race.

Mind you just to get their attention so I may explain myself. Most people understand, but nobody changes their thinking or approach to how they discuss race, which is the important thing to do. "

sounds very much like political correctness gone wrong. sorry OP but I think that being too political correct can sometimes be as damaging as racism.

anyways if and when people truly drop prejudices and accept every human being as biologically equal then I believe you would see people speaking of race very openly and casually. definitely not like the OP suggests with so many taboo worlds and required mental self control.

Nothing is more benevolent than the encouragement of the unification of mankind.
And then it's where I become silent, trying to persuade myself that evil is temporary

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Well I agreed with much of this....but what is your source about the Owl quote...I'm not sure what to think of it. Was it indeed a different species, or sub--species? If so then it should probably require protection if it's rare. Humans for one, are very particular hominid subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens....All Humans alive today are from this subspecies....And yet all of our difference in skin color, eyes shape, and hair texture are minor variations...and not enough to break us out of this small subspecies group we find ourselves in. I imagine that if these Owls are indeed in different subspecies or species, then scientist raise the bar pretty high to qualify for such a thing...Most likely on a genetic level.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Stonesplitter

 

We all are prejudice in one form or another. It is institutionalized. Why would a 6 bedroom in Compton sell for less than a 6 bedroom in Malibu? The neighborhood generally is the reason.

edit on 5-7-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)

That isn't "prejudice" but a reaction to reality- try living in the 6 bed in Compton for 6 months and the 6 bed in Malibu and come back with your findings

I respectfully disagree sir!

Diversity is the essence of life and race is simply another aspect of that diversity.
As evolution favors chance mutations in the gene pool, race gives human society the maximum number of chances for successful adaptation. It is the very thing that has allowed mankind to live everywhere from the Sahara to Polar Ice shelf and all points between.

Race is the result of the paidumatic influence of the environment, shaping the people not only as races but their culture and language to the very land they inhabit. This was why tribes could not conceive of moving away on to "reservations" - strange lands that had no echoes of their heritage in them. These are more than sentimental bonds, essential ties to the very land that gave them life just as Christians speak of Adam being created from the dust of the Earth.

Our differences are our strength, not something to be ignored or downplayed but to be celebrated!
The biggest mistake we are making is in thinking we are all the same when we're really not, just as none of us can fit in a cookie-cutter society, races cannot be molded in to one singular essence nor should they. What America is failing to do is to keep alive those differences and instead we water down everyone's cultures and remove or cover up any part that might be thought to be in conflict with the culture of another. The end result is a meaningless mish-mash of cultures and races with no soul or real connections to the land or even a cogent history.

We might be one human race, but we are still many races that if the strengths of each are allowed to flourish will ensure our overall survival as a species. Difference is good!

Race is not just skin colour and race is probably the most important thing in life.Race is first nature and everything you do and are capable of is based on your race.

We can't technically reproduce with other races as the offspring is mixed,yet of neither race(mongrel),and will go extinct in time.So much for us becoming ''one brown race'' eh?

Race is indeed being used as a divide and conquer tool,but only to destroy the white race(an admitted agenda).So next time you think of humanity as ''one race'',just remember that that is what they want you to think.Ironic isn't it how bringing the races together IS the divide and conquer tool to divide the WHITE RACE and then bring them to the point of extinction......so remember that the next time to hug your non white friends while thinking that you are doing good or going against the government.All you are doing is what they want because nothing is straight forward and what you think is true....is not.

Anti-racism is anti-white,therefore,racist.

reply to post by blueorder


What I would find with a 6 month stay in Compton, most likely, is that the denizens of Compton are very racist. I would be singled out as a white person that didn't belong. Nothing in my behavior is of a "black culture", and I would not fit in at all. I would suspect that bullying would eventually end up happening.

If i lived in Malibu, as I am now, nothing would happen. I have spent the last several years working around some folks with money, and understand the silly and shallow viewpoints they have. I would blend in far, far better. However, were I to be your regular Compton resident, and then move over to Malibu, i would expect the same thing as above: the racism of the people living in that neighborhood would likely make it very uncomfortable for me. I would expect the Malibu folks would, instead of using direct physical threats, instead use the police as a tool to bully me with.

People tend to segregate themselves. When you choose to go live "with your own kind", that is something that could be racist. Eschewing another race simply because of skin color is called "prejudice".

BTW, prejudice comes from "prejudge". Yes, prejudice is reality based most often, but all too often it is not.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


So my youngest sister recently had a baby. She is a blond haired, blue eyed white chick. To make matters worse, she is a nerdy white chick. So she blends with other cultures like vinegar and oil. The baby she had is with her fiance, who is a hispanic guy. So the baby, like my two sons, is of mixed race.

Right after she had the baby she began to try to get inolved in a local mothers group. She went 1 time, and refuses to return Why? Well, we aren't sure if it has to do wtih her "half breed" child (a term used by one of the mothers when discussing my nephew). Or if it is that my sister just isn't in the "click".

I talked with another mother who decided to avoid this group, and she said that it is all about power struggles. This mothers group is made up of oilfield wives who moved here with their husbands. They have nothing outside this mothers group, and they invest in it so deeply that their ego begins to lean on it. So when new people come in to the group, they are generally hazed to "teach them their place" in the group hierarchy. Since my sister is with a non-white man, she obviously was at the bottom of the hierarchy, socially.

I find it funny that there is a rigid and exclusionary social order among a mothers group. Especially among a mothers group where all the money in that group comes from roughnecks and other "oilfield trash" (i use that term with pride, as I was raised "oilfield trash"....a local term for folks related to the oilfield, who tend to be a wilder and rougher bunch). The "oilfield trash" has typically been looked down on by the social elite as being a bunch of wild heathens.

It was very amusing that a people who tend to be discriminated against for something as stupid as their jobs would then turn around and discriminate against someone else because the color of their babies or husbands skin wasn't lighter than a brown paper bag.

reply to post by Asktheanimals





Well said...You have said more concisely what i was trying to get over in my earlier

post.

We need to acknowledge and celebrate 'differences.'...something that comes to mind

while i am typing this...Micheal Jackson...two things were said of him, one that he had a skin

complaint, the other he was 'bleaching' his skin. There is no doubt that IF it was the former

that was true for his skin lightening that cannot be said of the surgeries that changed his

features to make him look more caucasian, WHY? He had a talent which far

exceeded anything he looked like!

I hate this 'dumbing down' attitude society has taken on. I'm so for equality but dispise

that TV stations etc.have a % quota to equalise presenters which means, that any

vacancy is not filled by the best person for the job, but by the colour of their skin to meet

'equalising' quotas - This also applies to gov. agencies and others. This sort of thing

also applies to the equalising of the sexes the need to meet the % quotas for men v women!

Personally, my first impression of someone is how they dress. Let me explain - If I walk into a gas station and there is a group of people of any color with their pants sagging down and a sideways hat, I automatically make assumptions about them, it's just natural for me to do so. If that same group were dressed with proper fitting clothes I would have an entirely different feeling about them. Generally from my experience my first impression of people seems to be spot on. If I hear people shouting at each other across a store as a standard way of communication for them, I can usually assume how they dress and act and most of the time it is correct. As a matter of fact I have some new neighbors on my street that were placed here from government housing that are all white, none of the 7 of them have jobs and they dress with their pants down right above their knees, play gangsta rap out of a old crappy car in their driveway as loud as they can at all hours of the night and are constantly walking up and down the street on cell phones making drug deals loudly, and are out in the street all night yelling and screaming. The traffic in and out of the house is constant. Now what would you think of this? Would that be stereotyping or common sense? I know I have went off topic here, but I would like a few opinions on this.