It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Consciousness without form?

page: 1
4

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 06:45 AM
link   
With so many people believing in a consciousness (god, universal awareness, whatever you want to call it) I'd like to discuss if this is even possible.

In order for living creatures to think, we must have a brain full of synaptic gaps and chemicals and storage areas for memory. If the brain is damaged in the area where thought occurs, consciousness stops. Though a computer doesn't actually think, in order for images and calculations to appear on the monitor, the computer must have a memory to store information, and wires and processors... If this hardware gets damaged, all information stops.



It seems pretty clear to me that consciousness cannot be generated without some kind of machine. And without a complicated neural network and storage area for memories, the process of thought cannot occur.

So, what is your theory on how consciousness (god, universal awareness, whatever you want to call it) can come about without a complex machine to process information?




posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 07:01 AM
link   
its a logical evolution of our conscience, to be without form, in the afterlife, it some sort of spiritual realm. Its the next step right? so what if we haven't taken it yet, someday we most definitely will. I read a book about how some aliens are here on earth, but with their tech they live forever, because their soul is stored on their home planet, and can be reassigned to a new body, say like a cloned body, on the home planet if they die on earth. I've also read about a galactic internet, so maybe we just haven't reached this level of tech, or we have but don't know about it.

edit to add:

If we had good enough teleportation technology would it not be easy to replicate someones body/spirit? take an imprint every so often so if someone dies you can go back to a previous copy, with no memory of the death. Sometimes I think this technology is already here, just hidden from us. Probably had mind bending technology since like the 1960's just no one knows about it, cause its top secret black project, like the classified N. Tesla papers - but adapted 1000 times over throughout the last 70 years. and constantly used on us. to maintain the matrix of power.
edit on 5-7-2012 by nrd101 because: ideas



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 07:05 AM
link   
Why does consciousness need a machine? How do you know what we see as reality isn't some sophisticated form of role playing that out true forms are plugged into and that our true consciousness exists outside of time. Time in essence being the constraints of the game.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 07:12 AM
link   
Non-generated consciousness is a myth that was created by human consciousness as a way of achieving some sense of security and peace of mind within what, for most people, is a terrifying environmental confine, filled with way too many ways to suffer and perish.

Anthropomorphism is a way for the human mind to try and gain some level of control over realities that are simply too large to be allowed to exist as non-negotiable threats. Ancient people imposed personalities on volcanoes and the sun in an effort to plan strategies that were designed to mitigate the obvious destructive potential these sorts of colossal forces innately possessed. Make friends with it and you won't have to figure out how to fight it. Good strategy, but only if what you're dealing with can be reasoned with. The practice naturally changed in relative sophistication over the millennia, with the anthropomorphism becoming more and more esoteric in nature, but it's still the same old strategy.

The truth is that the brain is how consciousness comes into existence, and it's the default ramification of sentience (an epitome survival "tool") itself - since information (even DNA directed implementation-centric information) does not have a physical half-life. The mechanics of it all is pretty fascinating, and once you pull it all together, it gets really obvious that esoteric convolutions were inevitable once sentience became robust enough to require them as the psychological hedge they've become. Self awareness is extremely complicated. It's an incredible survival skill set, but it's very breakable as well. Like any ultra-sophisticated system.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 07:21 AM
link   
reply to post by jiggerj
 


I think a better metaphor is a TV or radio. Consciousness is the signal coming in, and the TV or the radio is a receiver capable of receiving and converting that signal into something we see and hear. If the TV breaks down, it doesn't mean that the signal no longer exists.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 07:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by Open2Truth
reply to post by jiggerj
 


I think a better metaphor is a TV or radio. Consciousness is the signal coming in, and the TV or the radio is a receiver capable of receiving and converting that signal into something we see and hear. If the TV breaks down, it doesn't mean that the signal no longer exists.


Where does the TV or radio signal come from? It came from another machine. It wasn't formed by magic, and it wasn't formed in the air.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 08:42 AM
link   
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Asking where did the radio signal come from, is sort of like asking where does potential energy 'come from'. Like the potential field of energy which can pop in and out of existence as atoms , until it solidifies (as common atoms), so is the 'radio signal' called our "mind".

The mind is in a field of other "signals" of other minds, and this is why most people feel "oneness" in their near death experience. That "signal" will manifest into the physical world again in a new growing body. This is also why people see a black "tunnel" their mind is shifting "frequencies", and people can go through a tunnel to see "hell" or "heaven" or even a different part of "the earth realm". Although, not all of the experiences will be seen as the same. Like minds join together.

Now, as for the most dynamic / intense, that would be the positive minds. The negative minds are still minds but the "signal" is slower.

In other words, if you could connect these minds to a machine where you could see a "wave", the positive mind will produce many wave which goes very fast up and down and the negative will produce slower waves.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 08:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by jiggerj

So, what is your theory on how consciousness (god, universal awareness, whatever you want to call it) can come about without a complex machine to process information?






I dont think ASCENDING involves the grey matter
machine. The machine is based in relation to this 3d world. If your body switches frequency and becomes say a LIGHT* / PLASMA / SHADOWbeing
then again the grey matter may not be as significant or even present. The parts that are/IS important is your SOUL/SPIRIT/ INTERNAL ENERGY which is AWARE and IS NOT 3d. Yes damaged grey matter transmitter MAY cause a temp interruption to the receiving beings COLLECTIVE CONNECTION AWARNESS UNDERSTANDING that is until the receiving being CAN regain a NEW body to interact within the collective of interest. SO OP I disagree the conscious CAN and DOES exist beyond the barriers of FLESH, it just may have issues interacting AGAIN (rebirth*) with others when the grey matter machine or reality 3D-4D-5D OR MORE translator is damaged. What I think is happening here on EA*RTH is that some scientific 3D observers are having a hard time accepting what's metaphysical is = important to what is physical..... So due to them not wanting to take a metaphysical approach or outlook on consciousness they only can come up with the matter related data.. Omitting the possibilities of the SOUL actually having some importance.

edit on 7/5/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 09:24 AM
link   
We need only employ common sense and Occam's mighty razor to come to the conclusion that consciousness is not one thing, but the result of many events and occurrences not only within the brain, but the entire body. To attribute consciousness to some signal or radio wave, and to call our brain and body merely receivers is to spit in our own faces and to deny ourselves the credit our bodies deserve.

Good post.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 12:37 PM
link   
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Just to clarify - it was not my intent to use the receiver metaphor for anything beyond opening up possibilities beyond the ones you suggest in the OP. It certainly wasn't intended to be a complete metaphor for consciousness as another poster seemed to suggest.

Having said that, not all energetic signals (ala our "radio wave" metaphor) which receivers pick up on are machine generated.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 01:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by Open2Truth
reply to post by jiggerj
 

Just to clarify - it was not my intent to use the receiver metaphor for anything beyond opening up possibilities beyond the ones you suggest in the OP. It certainly wasn't intended to be a complete metaphor for consciousness as another poster seemed to suggest.

Having said that, not all energetic signals (ala our "radio wave" metaphor) which receivers pick up on are machine generated.


I didn't mean to imply that you were speaking with complete certainty. You are correct to assert that the possibility is still there. However, I've heard this idea many times—that the brain is a receiver of consciousness and nothing more—yet there is nothing verifiable enough to allow us take that leap of faith unless we are prone to being seduced to such a romantic idea. We are valuing too much the possibility and not the probability of the concept.

Cheers



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by Open2Truth
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Just to clarify - it was not my intent to use the receiver metaphor for anything beyond opening up possibilities beyond the ones you suggest in the OP. It certainly wasn't intended to be a complete metaphor for consciousness as another poster seemed to suggest.

Having said that, not all energetic signals (ala our "radio wave" metaphor) which receivers pick up on are machine generated.



If you can, please give an example of a radio wave (or anything of this type) that has no known origin within this universe. Keep in mind that when you say 'energetic signals' we are looking for intelligent signals that imply consciousness with deliberate thought that is formed without a material memory or pathways to formulate such thoughts. Thnx.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 05:43 PM
link   
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Of course I can't provide such proof that such things originate from outside our universe. I was actually referring to your statement of it requiring a "machine," and was referring to astronomical events. And I wasn't considering them "machines." I guess that can depend on how you look at them.

edit on 7/5/2012 by Open2Truth because: edit to clarify




top topics



 
4

log in

join