The Woman @ The Well: How the Historical Jesus Performed a "Miracle" + Reflections.

In this thread I would like to explore with like-minded (and non), the historical and Biblical contextual framework for the story of "The Woman at the Well" from the Gospel of John, to both learn whatever is to be learned from it, and at the same time, to see if it offers any clues which might serve to validate (for the sceptics and "Zeitgeistians") the actual presence of a historical Jesus and, if he's there, see how he liked to operate ie: what was his MO or modus operandi. And yes, using a certain style of historical textual criticism, I believe I can show how Jesus knew, of a women he'd just met for the first time, how many husbands she'd had and that the man she was presently living with was not her husband.

First, we'll look at a little history on the locale and setting of the scene of the alleged encounter between Jesus and the Samaritan woman who's arrived at a certain hour (some say noon, others, evening) to draw water.

Jacob's Well (Arabic: بئر يعقوب‎, Bir Ya'qub, Hebrew: באר יעקב‎; also spelled Jacob's fountain and Well of Sychar)
is a deep well hewn of solid rock that has been associated in religious tradition with Jacob for roughly two millennia. It is situated a short distance from the archaeological site of Tell Balata, which is thought to be the site of biblical Shechem.

The well currently lies within the complex of an Eastern Orthodox monastery of the same name, in the Palestinian city of Nablus in the West Bank.

Jacob's Well was made famous in Bible History as the place by the Samaritan city of Sychar, near ancient Shechem, where Jesus Christ stopped while on a journey from Judea in the south (where Jerusalem is located) to Galilee in the north (where Nazareth and Capernaum are located) and had His well-known encounter with a Samaritan woman.

Jewish, Samaritan, Christian, and Muslim traditions all associate the well with Jacob.[3] The well is not specifically mentioned in the Old Testament; the Book of Genesis (33:18f) states that when Jacob returned to Shechem from Paddan-aram, he camped "before" the city and bought the land on which he pitched his tent. Biblical scholars contend that plot of land is the same one upon which Jacob's Well was constructed.

"And Jacob came safely to the city of Shechem, which is in the land of Canaan, on his way from Paddan-aram; and he camped before the city. And from the sons of Hamor, Shechem's father, he bought for a hundred pieces of money the piece of land on which he had pitched his tent. There he erected an altar and called it El-Elohe-Israel." (Genesis 33:18-20 RSV)

Jacob's Well does appear by name in the New Testament's Book of John (4:5f), where it is recorded that Jesus "came to a city of Samaria, called Sychar, near the field which Jacob gave to his son Joseph. Jacob's well was there."[3] The Book of John goes on to describe a conversation between Jesus and a Samaritan woman (called Photina in Orthodox tradition), that took place while Jesus was resting at the well.

en.wikipedia.org...'s_Well

Next, we'll look at the actual scripture, and then, a pretty good, imo, Bible Study on this piece so as to gather in as much context as possible, and then, in a following post, I'll share the secret of Jesus' "miracle" (knowing the woman's past as if reading her mind and knowing everything "she's ever done") and seek to demonstrate his M.O. to reveal in Jesus, not only that he was a real historical figure, but a man of unparalleled genius, creativity, vision, and above all, humorous and charming and always interested in realizing that which is in everyone's best interest, including his own, which must include by neccessity, that capacity to have fun and to seek pleasure, joy and happiness for all the right reasons. In short, we may discover in the process a person unlike any other and certainly unlike most people, whether then or now, today. Who knows, maybe even some who've vehemently sought to deny the historical person of Jesus might even come to recognize him as a valid historical figure, and one to greatly admire, maybe even come to love and adore as I have through re-ingestigating him (with an open mind free from any sort of contemptuous bias prior to investigation).

Jesus Talks With a Samaritan Woman - John 4 NIV

4 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John — 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. 3 So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.

4 Now he had to go through Samaria. 5 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. 6 Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.

7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” 8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a])

10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”

16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

17 “I have no husband,” she replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

The Disciples Rejoin Jesus

27 Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, “What do you want?” or “Why are you talking with her?”

28 Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, 29 “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Messiah?” 30 They came out of the town and made their way toward him.

31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, “Rabbi, eat something.”

32 But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.”

33 Then his disciples said to each other, “Could someone have brought him food?”

34 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. 35 Don’t you have a saying, ‘It’s still four months until harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. 36 Even now the one who reaps draws a wage and harvests a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. 37 Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. 38 I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

Many Samaritans Believe

39 Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41 And because of his words many more became believers.

42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said. Now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

~ John 4 NIV

Lesson 7

John 4: 1-42 At Jacob's Well

The Story

Primary (level of understanding/interpretation)

The Lord and the disciples were leaving Judea after some months in this southern country to go again into Galilee. Their way was through Samaria, by Shechem and Jacob's well. This old well which Jacob dug was in the edge of the beautiful meadow where Abram and Jacob loved to live, where Joseph came looking for his brethren, which Jacob before his death gave to Joseph. Mount Gerizim rose just above the well, and the road passed around the mountain to the city Shechem.

The people of this district were among those who were taken away by the Assyrians to live in distant places, and strangers were brought to live in the towns of Israel. Do you remember the story? How the newcomers suffered from the lions, and how the king of Assyria sent back one of the priests of Israel to teach them how to worship the God of the land? But they still also worshiped their own gods. The Samaritans had their worship in Mount Gerizim, and they still continued to do so for many years, and they were never recognized as brethren by the Jews, who lived and worshiped in Jerusalem. (2 Kings 17:24-34, 41)

The Lord was now at Jacob's well in the country of the Samaritans, the beautiful meadow stretching before Him, Mount Gerizim rising above. We will read, or tell, the story and the Lord's words to the woman. The Samaritans were glad to listen to the Lord and believed in Him, first from the saying of the woman, then from hearing Him themselves. They asked Him to stay, and He stayed with them two days, and then went on His way to Galilee, to Cana near Nazareth.

Junior Level

We have learned of John's baptizing, and how the suspicious Jews at Jerusalem sent "priests and Levites" to the Jordan to find out about him. We have also learned that these same Jews at Jerusalem were even more angry with the Lord for His cleansing of the temple and because "many believed on Him." And today we learn that the Lord's disciples also baptized, and that more people came to be baptized by them than came to John. When this became known to the Pharisees the Lord and His disciples left Judea to go to Galilee, and they "must needs go through Samaria."

Now you will look at your map again. The straightest and quickest way you see to go from Judea to Galilee would be to go right across Samaria. We will think a moment about Samaria before we go on with the story of the Lord's journey there. It was a most beautiful country, in the very heart of the land.

Long, long before, Jacob was journeying through the land which the Lord had promised to his fathers, and he came to Shechem, and he bought a piece of land there for a hundred pieces of money. (Genesis 33:19) Here Jacob dug a well some hundred and fifty feet deep in the limestone rock. Afterward Jacob gave this piece of land to his son Joseph. Then, you remember, Joseph died in Egypt, and when the children of Israel came out of Egypt to take possession of the promised land, they brought up the bones of Joseph and buried them in this piece of ground. (Joshua 24:32) Then the land was settled by the children of Israel, each tribe having its share, and the part that was later called Samaria fell mostly to the tribe of Manasseh. After many years the king of Assyria came and conquered this part of the country, and to keep it more completely in subjection he took away the Jews who lived there and carried them captives to districts near to Nineveh, and brought people from distant places to live here in Samaria. You read the story in 2 Kings 17. These people did not worship the Lord, but idols of their own; and it is said that lions came and killed some of them, and they thought it was because they did not worship the God of the land. So the king sent back one of the priests of the Lord whom he had taken prisoner, and he taught the strangers about the Lord and His laws. But the people only thought of the Lord as one of many gods, and they still went on worshiping their idols. They learned something of the Word of the Lord and believed in the books of Moses, which contain His laws. But they were very much looked down upon by the Jews of Judea who would have nothing whatever to do with the Samaritans, and the Samaritans hated the Jews in return. The Jews made Jerusalem the central place for their worship. And the Samaritans worshiped in Mount Gerizim, which stands by Jacob's well, and there they built their altar to the Lord.

And now in our story the Lord journeyed through this beautiful land, its fertile plains covered with the ripening spring wheat. He was tired as He came to the well about noon (or, as some understand, toward evening), and He rested there while His disciples went away to buy food. And while He was sitting by the well a Samaritan woman came to draw water. She would do this by letting down her jar by a long rope into the deep well. This Samaritan woman came to the well to draw water in this way, and the Lord said to her, "Give Me to drink. She was surprised that a Jew should speak to her, because she was a Samaritan. She would know by His dress as well as by His speech that He was a Jew.

The Lord talked much with her, and told her of a living water, different from the water that could be drawn from this or any other well. As she listened, she knew that He must be a prophet; and said, "I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ; when He is come He will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am He." Then she went into the town - Sychar, across the fields, near by, or Shechem, not far away - and called the people to come and see Jesus, saying "He told me all things that ever I did." They came, and many believed on Him, some from what the woman had told them, and some from what they themselves heard and saw. They begged Him to stay with them, and He stayed two days.

It is a long story of unfriendliness between the Samaritans and the Jews, of which we are reminded in our lesson. But we see a good spirit in these simple people and a willingness to hear the Lord. Do you remember another "good Samaritan"? Such a friendly feeling these simple, despised strangers showed, compared with the anger of His own people, who were so proud because they felt themselves the Lord's chosen people, and they did not even know Him when He came to them! Now, as then, the Lord can come nearer to people who are humble and gentle, than to those who are proud and well satisfied with themselves.

As we read the Lord's words at Jacob's well, notice how He turned the thoughts upward from natural to heavenly water, and from natural to heavenly food.

More..www.swedenborgdigitallibrary.org...

Ok I figured I'd stop at that point in the OP or the post would be too long to digest.

Trust me, It WILL get ever more interesting once we start to look at the mechanics of the whole encounter, including the disciples' return (and bewilderment), the "ripe fields for harvest" and the three days spent at the woman's village at the end of which they told her that it wasn't because of what she said, but what he said, that they believed in him as the "savior of the world" ie: messiah sent from/by God.

Unfortunately I don't have time to finish this this evening, and it's kinda better if people are left in a certain degree of suspense so that they can first digest the scriptural story while investigating it's potentially deeper implications regarding the nature of the spiritual life.

God Bless You,

NAM (of the Christian variety)

A short excerpt from the Gospel of John film with the Gospel of John as the only scripts read by the actors:

reply to post by Murgatroid

That's great and an excellent contribution to the thread. Thanks.

That said, I do prefer the guy in Jesus of Nazareth in terms of "authenticity". This guy reminds me of my hippyesh grade five teacher after he'd maybe smoked a doobie, although of course Jesus would have been very happy and pleased that she had arrived (as per plan..?) but the women actor, she's good!

In truth, she would have had something kindof hardened or hard-hearted about her, that she was dealing with in her life, making her evasive to a degree, projecting if you will, as a defensive mechanism, and this woman plays that part very well indeed, including to the point that she "crumbles", having faced, head on, her demons, and having understood Jesus, what he was driving at, about living water (life lived to the full, with enthusiasm and meaning), and well, he OBVIOIUSLY knew everything about her, so what was she to do BUT either recieve what he was offering, or, run away, even if her excuse was to tell everyone else and muster their support so at least she wouldn't have to face her demons all on her own (and who woudn't run to tell others about an absolute psychic prophet in their midst!), but in the end, for some reason they repudiate her (to a degree), and seemingly leave her "out in the cold" by saying that it wasn't at all what SHE said about him (that he knew everything about her and everything she's already done in her life ie: how many men she'd done) which persuaded them in the least, in the final analysis but only and exclusively what he said, that caused them to believe. They made a point of it, whoever it was, most likely the you know town elder guys everyone looks up to, including all of Jacobs desendants and the lost tribe exiled by that king, and in time, driven away from and rejected by the mainstream Jews, even HATED as a type of racial minority, among the "unclean" even though long lost brothers and sisters, parents, children, grandparents of the same Jews of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - Jesus' "cousins" if you will, as a Jew himself, that's who lived in that village near where Jacob's well was situated.

Oh this gets soooo good you have no idea what's in store for this thread, oh forgive me my anticipation! I can't WAIT to share this, man it's funny! Jesus rocks I have to say it, and you'll soon seen why..

Edit to add: For the um anti-God, atheist or anti-Christian, and I don't mean that disparagingly by any means, honest, so as not to evoke any sort of negative bais, there is a single word in that passage of scripture, "worship" that I'd like to touch on briefly here before heading off to bed. Worship then meant something different in many ways from the way it is thought of today, and it certainly did for Jesus. It was more of a communing-with type of thing, of finding the presence so to speak, and getting into alignment with the living God, only problem was they did not fully understand what they were "worshipping" and yet for him as a monotheistic Jewish master (among other streams of thought, philosophy, metaphysics and spiritual initiation, including very possibly, Greek, Egyptian, Taost, Hindu, among others) the living spirit of the Temple, had left the temple (it had become totally corrupted by a-holes, to put it bluntly, and an Imperialist Roman Empire which was sucking the very life out of the common folk who were losing their land and everything - sound familiar?). And so, therefore, his apparnt re-frame of God as the spirit, and the truth, and the life (living water, living food) being EVERYWHERE and equally available to all who "worship in spirit and in truth" (get really real). It does not mean supplecate or genuflect, or even kneel or bow at any alter, or at the feet of any religious institution of any kind, but to enjoy and commune with "God" in spirit, which (paraphrased) "like the wind, blows where it pleases even though you don't know where it comes from or where it goes" ie: radically free, and in truth (honestly, with absolute honesty).

Don't want anyone making any assumptions and getting an unneccesary bias, especially when it isn't even called for by Jesus himself ie: no ritual or specific place, but instead something experienced in the communion of the sacred place of the heart where one's treasure builds, where wellsprings of living water well up and where spiritual food is to do the will of God which is simply the will to love, as fully and completely as humanly, even human-divinely, possible.

G'night, may you sleep well too God knows I will (it's been a longgg day)

NAM

Rust and Dead, why do you guys even bother posting at all? Here just to get your 2 cents in a thread for kicks? You do know it makes you look like the adolecent children you are making yourself out to be? Real mature guys..




Op.. Great post!

I dont have a whole lot to contribute on this. I did want to make a comment though. I appareciate the "study" here. Looking forward to the insight here. Always good to get back to the basics, so to speak. Wether people believe or not, no one can deny the words spoken and the wisdom there in.

Thanks again!

reply to post by article


goodness, it was simply a short way of saying "hey. enjoy reading your stuff, can barely wait" in me own attempt to be humerous back....notice there was no personal negatives? maturity?

reply to post by Rustami

No worries, after that particular set up and everything so far, to come back and find two off-topic posts one after another removed is funny enough in and of itself, so thanks, and I look forward to your participation, and hey a certain degree of scepticism is healthy and helpful and will surely serve to forward the discussion in interesting and even unexpected ways when the time comes.

Will be back at the end of my work day to finish laying out the larger, "bird's eye view" context within which these alleged events took place so that we can begin to examine possible causal mechanisms in the story which might shed light on its historical authenticity.

And just to clarify that I am not saying, neccessarily, that each and every single bit of what's written in the four Gospels is historical fact, and as apocrypha, of things both hidden and revealed, they were not, in their entirety, even intended by the original authors to be read in that manner, as a mere literal account of historical events.

This story however, for reasons we'll be exploring in this thread has all the hallmarks of an actual historical occurance that really took place.

All I ask for, aside from some healthy scepticism, is an honest and open mind free from any sort of contemptuous bias prior to investigation.

Best Regards,

NAM

ERROR, on my part, when I said these Samaritan people were distant cousins of the Jews or a lost tribe. They were not, just hated by the Jews (and likewise).

Long, long before, Jacob was journeying through the land which the Lord had promised to his fathers, and he came to Shechem, and he bought a piece of land there for a hundred pieces of money. (Genesis 33:19) Here Jacob dug a well some hundred and fifty feet deep in the limestone rock. Afterward Jacob gave this piece of land to his son Joseph. Then, you remember, Joseph died in Egypt, and when the children of Israel came out of Egypt to take possession of the promised land, they brought up the bones of Joseph and buried them in this piece of ground. (Joshua 24:32) Then the land was settled by the children of Israel, each tribe having its share, and the part that was later called Samaria fell mostly to the tribe of Manasseh. After many years the king of Assyria came and conquered this part of the country, and to keep it more completely in subjection he took away the Jews who lived there and carried them captives to districts near to Nineveh, and brought people from distant places to live here in Samaria. You read the story in 2 Kings 17. These people did not worship the Lord, but idols of their own; and it is said that lions came and killed some of them, and they thought it was because they did not worship the God of the land. So the king sent back one of the priests of the Lord whom he had taken prisoner, and he taught the strangers about the Lord and His laws. But the people only thought of the Lord as one of many gods, and they still went on worshiping their idols. They learned something of the Word of the Lord and believed in the books of Moses, which contain His laws. But they were very much looked down upon by the Jews of Judea who would have nothing whatever to do with the Samaritans, and the Samaritans hated the Jews in return. The Jews made Jerusalem the central place for their worship. And the Samaritans worshiped in Mount Gerizim, which stands by Jacob's well, and there they built their altar to the Lord.

They could however be thought of as "lost sheep", who although they'd adopted (by force or coersion) the Jewish conception of God, didn't really have the first clue of what it was that they were "worshipping", thinking that the Jewish God was just another in a whole pantheon of Gods. It is worthy to note that Jesus employed the Jewish hatred of Samaritans, to rather devastating effect, in "The Parable of the Good Samaritan" when he was confronted by the learned Scribes and a highly educated and ambitious "lawyer" (not like these days, but a student of the law and the prophets) who served as their spokesperson, another story which smacks of historical authenticity if only for the apocryphal esoterica of its cutting humor.

reply to post by article


Well i think i just under spoke and was misunderstood so let me be more clear.
I gave a star and flag to the op and enjoyed reading and was held in anticipation of the second half.
My point was that i enjoyed the first half and i didn't mean to seem bitter.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Rustami

 

All I ask for, aside from some healthy skepticism, is an honest and open mind free from any sort of contemptuous bias prior to investigation.

Now THAT would truly be a MIRACLE

Great post N.A.M.! Starred and flagged!

I'm still digesting all that you wrote, and waiting for my caffeine to kick in!

I have a couple of questions though. If the Sumerian woman stated that she and her people were the children of Jacob, how can they not be related to the Jews?

Also, what kind of culture in those days allowed for a woman to have 5 husbands? Could it be that she was some kind of "temple virgin?" Obviously she wasn't a virgin, but could her forays with men be condoned through some kind of religious thing? Perhaps she married into family that had a lot of sons that kept going off to war and getting killed, so she was given to a brother, again and again.

In a male dominated culture, I wonder if the woman wore a scarf, had piercings or some other identifying symbol of her marriage and family status, that would trigger a response from Jesus.

reply to post by windword

I clarified that in my last post above, based on another's research, which shows that they, the Samaritans, were a displaced people, "subbed in" for a group of Jews who were themselves exiled by some king, and as a group they might not even have been racially homogenous, so they were probably a mishmash of scattered and conflicted histories which this woman might have even personified to a degree (even though she said "our father Jacob"). If "children" of Jacob they would be Jews (but they apparently weren't of Jacob's tribe) where the Jews are a tribe (people) founded by Abraham, then generationally, Isaac, and Jacob. There is also historical evidence, or at least reporting by ancient historians, including Plato, who insist that the Jews originated as a "wondering" Aryan (meaning Civilized) tribe who settled in the area of Jerusalem only after many many years, if not centuries previously settled in the ancient Indus River Valley Civilization of Ancient India (what's now India, then the "far east" beyond Persia, where "Magi" come from btw..) and there were trade routes, by land and ship and more land running directly from ancient Ur (where Abraham is said to have been born)

Abraham was born in the Chaldean City of Ur, Mesopotamia, to Terah, his father. At birth he was named Abram.

Josephus, Islamic tradition, and Jewish authorities like Maimonides all concur that Ur of the Chaldees was in northern Mesopotamia — now southeastern Turkey - and identified with Urartu. Others identify Ur of the Chaldee as Urfa, or the nearby Urkesh.

Abram migrated to Haran, apparently the classical Carrhae, which lay on the Balikh river, a branch of the Euphrates. After a short stay, he, his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot (the son of Abram's brother Haran), and all their followers, departed for Canaan. Some commentators note that the names of Abram's forefathers Peleg, Serug, Nahor, and Terah, all appear as names of cities in the region of Haran, suggesting that these are eponymous ancestors of these communities

..from Ur, all the way to the mouth of the Indus River, which runs through the river valleys into the mountainous region now known as Kashmir, and then Tibet. These things also factor into the "equation" when considering the actual historical person of Jesus, in particular his "lost years", from a pre-pubescent child, to 30 year old man entering onto the scene as if from.. elsewhere - for more on this aspect/idea, of Jesus re-entering Jewish society (from outside, as if in exile of sorts himself) spiritually and educationally "armed to the teeth" so to speak, consider the teachings of Jesus' cousin John the Baptist, what he said of Jesus, while Jesus was still on his way, and what Jesus said of John being the literal reincarnation of Elijah, whereby a very old promise for a "double portion of spirit" remained unfulfilled until Jesus re-joined John for his own baptism at the very same river Jordan where Elijah and Elisha interacted centuries prior (would need to look up the time span to Jesus' time).

Illustrations re: the origin of the Jews

And on a figure on a ancient wall in India a symbol from Hinduism the word 'Omm' is centered in the connection of the triangle female symbol and the upright triangle male symbol.


The so called Star of David is not a symbol from Judaism, but a symbol form the Vedic religion of the ancient India, that is worshiping the reunion of man and wife. The symbol and the hidden meaning from Hinduism of this symbol was known by teachers of the Jewish mysticism and has found over them its way to the present Jewish culture.

Shiva is preserved in the Hebrew Genesis as chavvah ( = eve ) ( “life-giver” ) as the female life together with the Hebrew chayim ("Life").

(ignore Root Races column as not relevant at all, and questionable, but pay attention to the other two, including the Jewish Tree of Life)
That tree of life of Jewish Mystical tradition surely arose and was developed from the old old Vedic meditations and understanding drawn therefrom.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
(scroll the first map to see the key to the right)

Abraham

In his History of the Jews, the Jewish scholar and theologian Flavius Josephus (37 - 100 A.D.), wrote that the Greek philosopher Aristotle had said: "...These Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians, Calani." (Book I:22.)

Clearchus of Soli wrote, "The Jews descend from the philosophers of India. The philosophers are called in India Calanians and in Syria, Jews. The name of their capital is very difficult to pronounce. It is called 'Jerusalem.'"

"Megasthenes, who was sent to India by Seleucus Nicator, about three hundred years before Christ, and whose accounts from new inquiries are every day acquiring additional credit, says that the Jews 'were an Indian tribe or sect called Kalani...'" (Anacalypsis, by Godfrey Higgins, Vol. I; p. 400.)

Martin Haug, Ph.D., wrote in The Sacred Language, Writings, and Religions of the Parsis, "The Magi are said to have called their religion Kesh-î-Ibrahim.They traced their religious books to Abraham, who was believed to have brought them from heaven." (p. 16.)

And yes, this information is quite relevant to the thesis of the thread, as we'll come to see.

Originally posted by windword
In a male dominated culture, I wonder if the woman wore a scarf, had piercings or some other identifying symbol of her marriage and family status, that would trigger a response from Jesus.

I doubt that it would provide enough info for him to assess with 100% accuracy precisely how many husbands she had had (5), even though he might be able to see, say from a lack of ring on the finger or something like that that she was presently unmarried/divorced yet nevertheless presently living with a man who wasn't her husband (how would he know that? that she didn't come onto him? lol)

Thanks for your participation. Actually I was hoping that more people, like you have, might take it on and try to solve it before I share "the secret" to Jesus' M.O. in this case.

Oh what fun it is to look into something like this, and see things in it, historically, and meaningfully, that none might have previously seen and recognized since the time the story was written down, if ever (although there's probably something perhaps stashed away in the Vatican Archives who knows what they've hidden from view or would rather not say).

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I have always been stumped by this one.
May be he had been through there before and heard of a woman that fit her description that is often seen at the well.
Maybe he could draw upon the knowledge that is supposed to be in the hall of records.I think i read somewhere of calling on the angel metatron.
If that is the case then we could wonder exactly what happened to edgar casey when he was struck by lightening.

Birds Eye View

OK, first I'd like for the reader and participant to get "grounded" in the fact that this well was, and still is, a real place where such an encounter could easily have occured, and surely did take place.

"Jacob's Well" circa 1900-1920
View looking towards Mt. Gerazim. (A church was built over this well sometime before 1940.)


from the OP

Jacob's Well (Arabic: بئر يعقوب‎, Bir Ya'qub, Hebrew: באר יעקב‎; also spelled Jacob's fountain and Well of Sychar)
is a deep well hewn of solid rock that has been associated in religious tradition with Jacob for roughly two millennia. It is situated a short distance from the archaeological site of Tell Balata, which is thought to be the site of biblical Shechem.

The well currently lies within the complex of an Eastern Orthodox monastery of the same name, in the Palestinian city of Nablus in the West Bank.

Jacob's Well was made famous in Bible History as the place by the Samaritan city of Sychar, near ancient Shechem, where Jesus Christ stopped while on a journey from Judea in the south (where Jerusalem is located) to Galilee in the north (where Nazareth and Capernaum are located) and had His well-known encounter with a Samaritan woman.

Jewish, Samaritan, Christian, and Muslim traditions all associate the well with Jacob.[3] The well is not specifically mentioned in the Old Testament; the Book of Genesis (33:18f) states that when Jacob returned to Shechem from Paddan-aram, he camped "before" the city and bought the land on which he pitched his tent. Biblical scholars contend that plot of land is the same one upon which Jacob's Well was constructed.

"And Jacob came safely to the city of Shechem, which is in the land of Canaan, on his way from Paddan-aram; and he camped before the city. And from the sons of Hamor, Shechem's father, he bought for a hundred pieces of money the piece of land on which he had pitched his tent. There he erected an altar and called it El-Elohe-Israel." (Genesis 33:18-20 RSV)

Jacob's Well does appear by name in the New Testament's Book of John (4:5f), where it is recorded that Jesus "came to a city of Samaria, called Sychar, near the field which Jacob gave to his son Joseph. Jacob's well was there."[3] The Book of John goes on to describe a conversation between Jesus and a Samaritan woman (called Photina in Orthodox tradition), that took place while Jesus was resting at the well.

en.wikipedia.org...'s_Well

Next, let's consider the context of the scriptural "before and after" of the story, to see what it says about where Jesus and his disciples were coming from, and where they were going, to see if there might have been an agenda of some kind which brought them through Samaria to this particular place near the adjoining (every town needs a good well) nearby town of Sychar, where he and his disciples were invited to stay (compliments of the woman's rather frenzied appeal to "come see" no doubt) and there remained for two days as invited guests (rather unusual since Jesus and company were Jews visiting a Samaritan village).

Was it just pure happenstance, a serendipitous occurance, or might there have been more to it...

Before

4 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John — 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. 3 So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.
4 Now he had to go through Samaria. 5 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. 6 Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.
7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” 8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)
4 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John — 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. 3 So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.
4 Now he had to go through Samaria. 5 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. 6 Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.
7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” 8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

After

43 After the two days he left for Galilee. 44 (Now Jesus himself had pointed out that a prophet has no honor in his own country.)

Then finally, let's carefully examine the map, to try to fathom what his travel route might have been, which brought him and his friends to Jacob's well.


Now let's take a closer look for the actual travel route they would have had to have taken, given the relative proximity of Mount Gerizim.

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Maybe he could draw upon the knowledge that is supposed to be in the hall of records.I think i read somewhere of calling on the angel metatron.
If that is the case then we could wonder exactly what happened to edgar casey when he was struck by lightening.

Now that IS very funny, but stay tuned, because even though the explanation as to how he knew what he knew about a women he'd never met who lived in a town he'd never visited, is rather "mundame" at first glance, precisely how and why it was done the way it was, reveals something about a man who was rather gifted (to say the least) in "handling" the farthest reaching causes, and effects, for the greater good ie: for a "harvest" and a celebration and a re-integration. But if this weren't enough, the very next event afterwards reveals that this knack of Jesus', to get well ahead of the curve, shall we say, moves into a whole new domain into the realm of acausal connectedness, and yes, real signs and wonders. It was like he was accumulating power everywhere he went, by reaping a harvest from the extreme deficit everywhere of karmic debt - straightening things out you could say, even to the degree that the spirit of truth and life started taking notice and actually co-operating with this man's plans, and then, for a time, there were actual miracles as God's way of saying "i'm with this guy and what he's all about"!

On that note, here are the very next versus of the accompanying scripture

42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

Jesus Heals an Official’s Son
43 After the two days he left for Galilee. 44 (Now Jesus himself had pointed out that a prophet has no honor in his own country.) 45 When he arrived in Galilee, the Galileans welcomed him. They had seen all that he had done in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, for they also had been there.

46 Once more he visited Cana in Galilee, where he had turned the water into wine. And there was a certain royal official whose son lay sick at Capernaum. 47 When this man heard that Jesus had arrived in Galilee from Judea, he went to him and begged him to come and heal his son, who was close to death.

48 “Unless you people see signs and wonders,” Jesus told him, “you will never believe.”

49 The royal official said, “Sir, come down before my child dies.”

50 “Go,” Jesus replied, “your son will live.”

The man took Jesus at his word and departed. 51 While he was still on the way, his servants met him with the news that his boy was living. 52 When he inquired as to the time when his son got better, they said to him, “Yesterday, at one in the afternoon, the fever left him.”

53 Then the father realized that this was the exact time at which Jesus had said to him, “Your son will live.” So he and his whole household believed.

54 This was the second sign Jesus performed after coming from Judea to Galilee.

I wonder what the first sign was that they're referring to, if it has to do with the woman the well scenario, or prior. This would attest to the authenticity of the scripture and what it claims in terms of what was a sign and not a sign. After all, one would think that "mind reading" is a sure sign, right?

I have a couple questions and then maybe a couple comments dependant upon how you answer the questions. First, I would like to say, I believe Jesus is the Messiah, so obviously I have no issue with what others who don't belive that have issues with.

My first two questions have to do with things you quoted:

1. Exactly what is "lesson 7"?
2 What is the "Junior level'?

Also, in one post you mentioned "living water" and next to it you wrote in parentheses - life lived to the full, with enthusiasm and meaning. So my third question is this:

3. Do you think the term living water is a mere concept describing a type of life that can be lived or do you believe it is a real tangible gift as Jesus declared it was?

I would like to discuss the ladder, but it would be useless if you don't believe it or aren't open-minded to learn about it.

Thanks!