Police Attempt To Raid Garage Sale with AirSoft gear, Get Kicked To Curb (video)

Originally posted by Ben81
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Yes it was funny, anyone here could figure out which city this happened in fairly fast.

Ottawa or Toronto ?

edit on 7/4/2012 by Ben81 because: (no reason given)

Closer to Detroit and I will leave it at that..... I am not being cryptic but there still might be jobs at stake even after all these years.

Regards, Iwinder

I thought they stated it was an apartment complex. I dont think personal property extends into the common areas. The lady is obviously a rabble rouser and the cop could have acted better. And what were the police supposed to do, ignore the call?

Originally posted by Domo1
I thought they stated it was an apartment complex. I dont think personal property extends into the common areas. The lady is obviously a rabble rouser and the cop could have acted better. And what were the police supposed to do, ignore the call?

I agree. I think the police should have rag dolled the lady, and then pepper sprayed both people in the face. That'll teach them to think they have rights!

Originally posted by Sek82
reply to post by mee30

 

Once the police were called (if indeed they were called) and told weapons were being sold at a garage sale, they had probably cause to search the premises - They had the right to be there, legally.

Still want my home address?

Only if possession and sale of firearms is inherently unlawful. Which it actually isn't, unless the city or state has some sort of statutory bar for selling personal firearms. I could set up a lemonade and gun stand on the corner here - there's no law against it if I'm selling my own personal stash.

If these people had REALLY wanted to set them up, they could have put the airsoft gear in a box that the cop had to open to see what it was, in which case it's no longer "in plain sight", it would have stepped that complaint up into the "let's go to court" level. With them in plain sight, he has a lot more leeway.

Originally posted by Domo1
I thought they stated it was an apartment complex. I dont think personal property extends into the common areas. The lady is obviously a rabble rouser and the cop could have acted better. And what were the police supposed to do, ignore the call?

You hear the lady stating that she is the owner of the complex.

So, private property.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


Just saying I dont believe you can scream get off my property when its not your propery. I dont really get the snide comments.

reply to post by Romekje


Oh, I missed it.

They lost the private property status when they allowed the public in the yard. But none of that really matters because cops can make up probable cause. "I heard cries for help coming from in one of those airsoft guns."

reply to post by Ben81


While I fully agree that cops need to follow the proper procedure for searching on private property, I do not feel that this case qualifies...

having a yard sale is inviting strangers onto your property, including police officers.
would it have been different if it was a cop that jut wanted to see what was for sale while on his lunch break?
or a cop that was off duty browsing the goods?

you can't invite everyone onto your property(which you do when you have a yard sale) and then bitch when one group of people come and look at your stuff.
the police obliged the woman when it was requested they get off their property, but for her to insist on following up with a complaint is BS in my opinion...

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0

Originally posted by Domo1
I thought they stated it was an apartment complex. I dont think personal property extends into the common areas. The lady is obviously a rabble rouser and the cop could have acted better. And what were the police supposed to do, ignore the call?

I agree. I think the police should have rag dolled the lady, and then pepper sprayed both people in the face. That'll teach them to think they have rights!

I agree with the above posted by v1rtu:-)
That will show them who is boss eh?
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by Domo1And what were the police supposed to do, ignore the call?

Maybe, yes. Is it unlawful for individuals to sell private firearms in that city and state? If the answer is "no" then the call is no different than "People are selling popcorn on the corner".

While it might be the sort of thing that would pique the interest of the cops, if it's lawful to do, they sort of immediately lose that "probable cause" shield that lets them start grabbing the merchandise with that "tut tut what have we here you miscreant" attitude.

Originally posted by kalisdad
would it have been different if it was a cop that jut wanted to see what was for sale while on his lunch break?
or a cop that was off duty browsing the goods?

Had he just done that it might have not escalated. Unless these guys were just trying to get a reaction, in which case nothing would have been acceptable.

Frankly, if you'd just come up and said "Hey, what'cha got?" and looked at it, I'd have no issue with it. I know lots of cops that do paintball and airsoft. But the whole "Ok, #bag, up against the wall, I have the right to take your crap! Stand aside, peons!" approach is a bit aggressive and unnecessary, and just begs for a response, and goes to the one particular cop's attitude, the other two cops didn't seem to be arseholes.

Originally posted by Iwinder

Originally posted by Ben81
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Yes it was funny, anyone here could figure out which city this happened in fairly fast.

Ottawa or Toronto ?

edit on 7/4/2012 by Ben81 because: (no reason given)

Closer to Detroit and I will leave it at that..... I am not being cryptic but there still might be jobs at stake even after all these years.

Regards, Iwinder

i though you were talking about the mounties in Canada lol
my mistake .. no need to identify anyone
the only job at risk would be the cop abusing his autority to show off in front of his new GF

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


I also think that you should put them on their place and a simple recognition of wrong doing in from of those pears there would have sufficed (she could even have requested him to write a letter of apology), as to avoid doing a real participation of the event. That could even be used later to press the above layers to spend more resources and time in educating the officers.

reply to post by Bedlam


I do think that you run into a number of problems with people selling firearms in an apartment complex. I would want the police to investigate too if I witnessed it (and believed they were real, which lets face it a number of people would). It's a little different than popcorn in my opinion. I'm hugely pro gun, but I'm also hugely against ignoring what could turn into a nasty situation.

If someone calls dispatch and says there are ne'er do wells selling firearms out in the open, of course thepolice need to respond. Quick investigation to make sure things are on the up and up, that people aren't brandishing or being intimidating. The trespass thing doesn't bother me in this case as it was a yard sale. If the police decided it was acceptable to just waltz onto someone's property and start rummaging around, yeah I would have a huge problem with that. That and even if the lady was the property owner, it's still an apartment complex. Walking through one to investigate something doesn't strike me as a huge overreach of power.

I guess what I'm saying is that a mountain has been made out of at the worst a mole hill.

lets them start grabbing the merchandise with that "tut tut what have we here you miscreant" attitude.

I found that tut tut line very amusing.

Originally posted by Bedlam
But the whole "Ok, #bag, up against the wall, I have the right to take your crap! Stand aside, peons!" .

when did that happen here? I just went back and watched the clip.. and didn't see it.. give me a timestamp on this video so I can see what you are posting about... if that happened, then I will be angry as well..

Originally posted by Domo1

I do think that you run into a number of problems with people selling firearms in an apartment complex. I would want the police to investigate too if I witnessed it (and believed they were real, which lets face it a number of people would). It's a little different than popcorn in my opinion. I'm hugely pro gun, but I'm also hugely against ignoring what could turn into a nasty situation.

Lots of gun shows, never seen one turn into a nasty situation. If it's not unlawful, it's hard to regulate by police without it sort of creeeeping over the line into "now we're just being officious".

If someone calls dispatch and says there are ne'er do wells selling firearms out in the open, of course thepolice need to respond. Quick investigation to make sure things are on the up and up, that people aren't brandishing or being intimidating.

Doesn't happen a lot at gun shows. If the call was for brandishing or intimidating, then by all means. But "they're selling/doing something scary looking but legal" (assuming - some locales don't allow this sort of thing in which case, yes, the cops had a right to do the cop strut) isn't enforceable by cop.

And they ought to know better than to try, because that's where things start to go bad - you get cops that decide they don't like (x) even though they can't legally enforce their personal displeasure, it starts mixing with the internal "I can do what I want, I'm a cop" attitude, and they'll start laying the mopery charges around until they get their way. THAT sort of thing is why they act all surprised and butthurt when people don't like or trust them anymore.

You know what I did? I thought when she said 'yeah but this is our property' she was implying that being a renter gave her rights to the whole complex. Oops.

So one more question. If someone is having a yard sale, doesn't that essentially mean anyone walking by is invited onto the property? Including law enforcement? I'm not sure.

If I had been the responding officer I would have walked up, asked to speak with the person running the yard sale, politely said, 'Ma'am we got some complaints and I'm sure everything is fine, I just want to make sure everything is safe'.

I really disliked the cops attitude, and also the woman's.

I would also like to suggest that this woman begins UFO hunting. She's Johnny on the spot whipping out that camera!

Originally posted by Sek82
Law enforcement does not need a warrant to search or seize evidence that is "in plain view" if the officer has a right to be where the evidence is first spotted along with reasonable suspicion a crime may be in progress. Since it was visible from the sidewalk, they had the right to investigate further without a warrant.

Admitting i didn't know this.

reply to post by Bedlam

If it's not unlawful, it's hard to regulate by police without it sort of creeeeping over the line into "now we're just being officious".

I really get what you're saying, I just think that in this situation it doesn't seem like slippery slope territory.

Gun show is an interesting point. I suppose the reason I think this differs is that you EXPECT to see guns at a gun show. To me this incident is less about the cops and the sellers, it's more about the public. If I saw that going on in my neighborhood and wasn't a gun nut I would be freaked out. I suppose I'm just irritated that people are going to use this to claim we are living in some horrifying police state.

I really appreciate you're civility. You make very good points.