Police Attempt To Raid Garage Sale with AirSoft gear, Get Kicked To Curb (video)

Originally posted by Xtrozero
"I'm with cop watch...I delt with you...."

Hmmm I wonder if they called themselves about their own guns just to video anything that might transpire? BTW, unless she owns the Appts then it is not her private property...

I don't know about California - they have so many anti-citizen restrictions there anyhow - but in most places, any place you are paying rent on is your "private property" in a legal sense, so long as your rent is current.

"You haven't dealt with me, i'm with copwatch, i've dealt with you!"
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reply to post by nenothtu


No, but reports of firearms sales in combination with what looks like firearms from a distance at a yard SALE is most certain probable cause that a crime has been or will be committed in the near future. That gives them the authority to search that area. Not search willy nilly, but that specifically, yes.

edit: and just in case you haven't read any of my posts up to this point, selling a firearm privately in California is most definitely illegal. It must be sold through a licensed dealer.

Originally posted by Sek82
Okay Ben I like your threads but this one... I'm not taking the bait.

So they are selling Airsoft guns, no big deal once that is known. But they could very well be real M4s from a distance, can they not? They got a call from some other concerned citizen and are just responding to it.

So residents are holding a Garage Sale, and when a cop steps up to check out the wares, the "Private Property" card gets pulled and I'm supposed to side with the idiots selling this stuff?

This can be compared to that guy who was questioned by police while carrying an arsenal of weapons, you are right. They are trolling for police response just to put it on YouTube while crying about their rights being infringed upon.

Even if they were real M4's it is private property and they need a warrant to search.

Originally posted by Djayed

Even if they were real M4's it is private property and they need a warrant to search.

According to the 4th amendment actually, that wouldn't apply. Look up expectation of privacy, which is necessary for protection under the 4th amendment. The cop didn't need a warrant to search that specific area due to the circumstances either.

I'll agree that some LEO's overstep their boundaries, but in this instance it just really looks like they baited the officers and did all they could to get them to stop at their sale, and even had their camera ready (likely because they knew they'd be showing up).

I will also ask why so many treat all LEO's as though they're hell bent on total rule over people and enslaving the entire human race, thus no longer treating them as actual people doing a job. Maybe I'm just a happy, positive person, but if I was in this scenario it would go like this:

Me: Hey, those are just some airsoft guns.
Officer: We got a call from someone.
Me: That's fine, check 'em out.
Officer: *after a few seconds* Okay, have a good day.

And why do answers like mine always invoke the "But if we let them do that then they take away our freedom!!" or "What's next, just walking into our homes!?" responses? It's like people think the 'if you don't use it you lose it' saying goes for everything.

I had more to bring up but Xcathdra beat me to it. I'll end by saying that people need to realize that as soon as firearms, fake or real, enter the picture then the front yard, back yard and driveway are no longer considered private, but instead a public place. Also we're talking assault rifles and California.

reply to post by nenothtu


Thanks, did the cop not state he was there because of a call? Did he then give up the right to be shopping and was there in a law enforcment capicity? If yes then he had no right to touch her stuff without her consent or warrant, is that correct?

I will also ask why so many treat all LEO's as though they're hell bent on total rule over people and enslaving the entire human race, thus no longer treating them as actual people doing a job. Maybe I'm just a happy, positive person, but if I was in this scenario it would go like this:

reply to post by ManiShuck


Honestly it's the uniform for me.
I think having such a big belt with so much stuff on it gives them a posture that makes it seem like your being looked down upon even if the officer does not think lowly of you.
This posture and uniform can envoke a fear response in people and that can turn into a fight or flight response.
Along with some mistakes that have been made by law enforcement in the past that can be a big hurdle for an officer to overcome and keep the situation calm while just doing their job.
I'm not saying that's completely it but image places a big part along with greetings like is your mother or father home.
At the same time the image of an assult rifle can envoke a response to a officer.It's not an easy job but there are more tactful way's it could have gone regardless if it was a setup.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by nenothtu

 

No, but reports of firearms sales in combination with what looks like firearms from a distance at a yard SALE is most certain probable cause that a crime has been or will be committed in the near future. That gives them the authority to search that area. Not search willy nilly, but that specifically, yes.

I see you are in NJ. That's probably so there, and in CA as well (and I'm guessing probably MD, NY, MA, and IL), but not in most of the country. Here, for example, in NC, selling live firearms isn't illegal. Selling them in quantity may be, but that is under federal jurisdiction, not local. In any event, under plain view doctrine, if you can see it from where you are legally standing, it's fair game for inspection. That, however, isn't under probable cause.

Officer safety would be another avenue of approach, especially considering the belligerent attitude of the woman running the sale. If someone is acting like that, I'm certainly going to want to know if she has a live one within reach.

edit: and just in case you haven't read any of my posts up to this point, selling a firearm privately in California is most definitely illegal. It must be sold through a licensed dealer.

edit on 5-7-2012 by grimreaper797 because: (no reason given)

I hadn't, but will now consider myself educated in that matter. They should expect challenges to State or local enforcement of that now, since SCOTUS decided (in the AZ immigration matter) that local jurisdictions can't enforce federal law. Licensing falls under Federal jurisdiction, and is a matter for BATFE. So CA can make a law requiring sales to go through licensed dealers, but it's up to the feds to deal with licensing matters. Sort of the way AZ can investigate for immigration violations and detain, but can't do much else without federal involvement.

Keep in mind that my initial LE training was just under 30 years ago, though, and this is a whole different country now. Thing we'd have never gotten away with back then seem to be routine now. I'm working mostly off of common law and current NCGS, and the Code of Virginia from back then. Local laws will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and it's anyone's guess what effect DHS Fusion Centers and the current SCOTUS rulings will have in the final outcome regarding the division of enforcement between Federal and State and local..

Have fun being red flagged and added to a watch list

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Thanks, did the cop not state he was there because of a call? Did he then give up the right to be shopping and was there in a law enforcment capicity? If yes then he had no right to touch her stuff without her consent or warrant, is that correct?

"Right to shopping"? What the hell is that? Don't say that too loudly - my roomate may be listening!

The officer has a right to be in any place that any of the rest of the public is allowed to be in, and to inspect anything they are entitled to inspect. He doesn't give up his rights held in common with the rest of us just by getting up in the morning and putting on a uniform and badge.

If it's in plain view, and subject to inspection by the general public, then neither does a police officer need a warrant to inspect it. The purpose of the inspection is irrelevant.

He could not toss the place, or search inside, or in other private areas barred from the general public, without a warrant, but public areas are fair game, because there is no expectation of privacy.

Originally posted by Djayed

Even if they were real M4's it is private property and they need a warrant to search.

Not if it has been opened to the general public.

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


The police should have went undercover and pretended to be a buyer.
But I digress......I think we need to get our freedom back ....just no one wants to jump. ( including me )

Originally posted by Sek82
Okay Ben I like your threads but this one... I'm not taking the bait.

So they are selling Airsoft guns, no big deal once that is known. But they could very well be real M4s from a distance, can they not? They got a call from some other concerned citizen and are just responding to it.

So residents are holding a Garage Sale, and when a cop steps up to check out the wares, the "Private Property" card gets pulled and I'm supposed to side with the idiots selling this stuff?

This can be compared to that guy who was questioned by police while carrying an arsenal of weapons, you are right. They are trolling for police response just to put it on YouTube while crying about their rights being infringed upon.

It doesn't matter, they still need a warrant. End of discussion.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Djayed

Even if they were real M4's it is private property and they need a warrant to search.

Not if it has been opened to the general public.

If the cops are there in the in the course of duty, they aren't the public, they are cops.

reply to post by Sek82


actually you need to learn and understand your rights, even with gun sales, which are legal in amerika, the police need a search warrant to come on your property and touch your stuff. go to a fema camp please anyone who argues this, you people are the same ones that dont have food stocked up LOL, and when you go to the fema camps they are gonna poison the crap outa you through the food and water!! LOL SUCKERS

Originally posted by Sek82
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

 

These people, while rambling on about their private property and rights wasted our tax payer money, plain and simple. Attention hoars.

I!m sorry your thought processes are so messed up. That,s probably what the typical German citizen thought in 1939. "why challenge authority?". If you do you must be guilty of something.

Scary part is there's plenty of stupid people in this country.

reply to post by axslinger
That is like saying they need a warrant if they see someone committing a crime. See, assault weapons are not legal in CA. If the cops just happen to be driving by (let's assume they weren't responding to a call as claimed) and see what appears to be assault weapons being sold at a garage sale, they then have reasonable suspicion and the right to investigate further.

Reasonable suspicion means that the officer has sufficient knowledge to believe that criminal activity is at hand. This level of knowledge is less than that of probable cause, so reasonable suspicion is usually used to justify a brief frisk in a public area or a traffic stop at roadside. To possess either probable cause or reasonable suspicion, an officer must be able to cite specific articulable facts to warrant the intrusion. Items related to suspected criminal activity found in a search may be taken, or seized, by the officer.*

I'm willing to bet these legal details have been thoroughly covered in the previous eighteen pages of this thread by many members, but I really wanted to hop back in here and say something else.

There are real injustices that happen in this country at the hands of law enforcement officers as well as civilians.

It's my genuine belief that this is not one of them, not even close. It saddens me that attention is being taken away from those cases where cops are actually beating innocent people to death for no good reason, and is instead focused into petty encounters like this that have been premeditatedly set up by "cop watchers" and "rights exercisers" for attention. Let's call it for what it is...

No one was wronged.
No one was hurt.
No one was killed.

That is all that really matters.

reply to post by Djayed


No no they don't, thats been said many times here. If the guns were inside the house then yes they need a warrant. However the guns are in plain view at essentially a store. The airsoft guns also worried citizens enough that one called the cops. The cop had probable cause to search the guns and step on the premises to inspect said guns. No warrant was needed when the object was in plain view for any to see.

reply to post by atsbansrealppl


So you are saying that if I for example leave what looks to be a pipebomb on my driveway. The cops must first attain a warrant to step on my driveway to then even look at the object?