Police Attempt To Raid Garage Sale with AirSoft gear, Get Kicked To Curb (video)

reply to post by AfterInfinity


They didn't see them, "they got a call" about people who "may be" selling firearms. It had nothing to do with the "seeing" them "in the open".

-SAP-

Whilst I agree this was a yard sale, and I agree it's a bit of a trap ... to be honest this event represents something that has happened to me multiple times as a gun owner and film maker person. I appreciate the point the persons are making in the video.

The attitude of police can often be dismissive, threatening, and rude without cause. A number of times I've been in situations with my firearms or working in public after filling out the appropriate permits and paperwork and the police have rocked up and being anything but helpful. I've also had similar experiences over the phone with them showing opaque attempts to avoid doing work, or put me off doing something that will result in paperwork.

On one occassion due to over zealous police officers wanting to play GI Joe I ended up calling a lawyer. On another I was threatened with a possible 'higher level search' of my person and belongings if I didn't agree to the one they were offering me. For the record, I have zero firearms related offenses on my record. I've never been fined, my gun licenses have never been banned or suspended. I have never been involved in an accident involving a firearm. I have no criminal record.

Don't get me wrong, I've had nice experiences with police officers also but there is a percentage (perhaps 20 - 35%) who feel they have to be obnoxious and stand offish to do their job. Most of the time what I actually want to say is 'seriously, I don't need your lecture. I don't need your attitude. Tell me what you need, and move on.' The difference between a normal person and them though is a normal person can't suspend my gun licenses for 10 years and taze me in the freaking face.

With the amount of power a police officer has over a person on a day to day basis, there is no reason for the attitude or being so threatening. I especially don't like it when police obsficate a persons rights because it makes their job quicker or simply 'easier'. I've been openly lied to by police officers on multiple occassions regarding my rights for recording devices and firearms. Same goes for security patrols, transport police, and customs.

Police are human. They're lazy just like all of the other humans. They know they can get away with just about anything by claiming they have the right to do it because they have a uniform and a sense of authority. I've had hours of my time wasted by the police, so if this video wasted a few hours of theirs ... I almost feel justified at finding it amusing even if it was a trap.

I do understand the people that say they're just doing their job. Your average person I imagine only has one such incident every five or so years. When you deal with it a few times a year though it becomes a frustration.

reply to post by AfterInfinity




Which was my point.

If you want to bitch and moan at the thread and everyone else, do that.... don't reply to me and then just spew at everyone.

reply to post by blupblup


That's because I was responding to you as well...but not all of it was directed at you.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by blupblup

 

First of all, stop pretending you are better than the cops. Regardless of how many of them have displayed brutality, they still have a job to do, and our privacy doesn't make a damned bit of difference if there's something dangerous going on.

Right now, every time they respond to a situation involving possibly weaponry, they have to assume we're every bit as dangerous as they are. And when they're responsible for the lives of everyone around them, are they really going to just knock on the front door? Because that's always how we find meth labs and crap....right.

You guys just found something to complain about, and now you're going to bleed it because you want someone to point the finger at. But the fact remains: had there been a dangerous situation, these police were ready to deal with it. But there wasn't, and no one got hurt except for the stuck-up jerkoffs who decided that since their little private property was invaded, they had the right to impede an officer doing his job for the safety of the community.

You people sicken me. Stop bitching and accept that because enemies come from both within and outside of our borders, cops have to take their job seriously. If you'd rather they NOT take their job seriously...yeah. Think about that.

edit on 5-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

OHHHHH YOU MAKE ME SICK!!!!!!
OF COURSE my privacy makes a difference whether something dangerous is going on or NOT!!!!

We have given police the authority to enforce LEGAL laws while requiring them to take an oath to hold the highest law, our rights, in higher esteem than any orders or illegal laws.

There is a reason that they don't have authority to search and seize property on a whim and that is that our Liberty is not appointed by them and WE, the GRANTERS of their AUTHORITY, have not GRANTED them the authority to overstep those bounds.

That is regardless of whether or not, they PERCEIVE there to be something "Dangerous" going on.

They have to respect our Liberty first and foremost.

That you seem to think that your SAFETY supersedes my fundamental rights puts YOU in a precarious position. Because one of my other fundamental rights and the oath I took allows me to DEFEND those rights from all enemies foreign and domestic.

You do NOT have the authority to GRANT ANYONE the authority to supersede MY rights because you are scared...

Jaden

reply to post by Masterjaden


And you make me annoyed. Privacy doesn't matter when someone's life is possibly at risk. That cop's job is to make sure it's not at risk, regardless of whether you want him on your grass or not. If you don't like it, move to a country where twenty armed men can force you to strip because they heard from the grapevine that you badtalked the president.

At least we don't do that, eh?

First you guys complain about cops sitting around and doing nothing for a fat paycheck, then you whine because they "trespassed" in order to examine firearms that posed a possible threat to the neighborhood. You have your priorities seriously screwed up.

Those cops were there to save lives and deter a potential catastrophe, not to worry about stepping on someone's lawn. When they determined the situation was under control, they left. They only cared about doing their job. You don't want them to protect you? Go to prison. They don't give a f*** what happens to you in there. And by the end, you'll be screaming for them to trespass on your "territory". End of story.

Garage sale?
I'm surprised DHS didn't 'handle' it!

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Masterjaden

 

And you make me annoyed. Privacy doesn't matter when someone's life is possibly at risk. That cop's job is to make sure it's not at risk, regardless of whether you want him on your grass or not. If you don't like it, move to a country where twenty armed men can force you to strip because they heard from the grapevine that you badtalked the president.

At least we don't do that, eh?

First you guys complain about cops sitting around and doing nothing for a fat paycheck, then you whine because they "trespassed" in order to examine firearms that posed a possible threat to the neighborhood. You have your priorities seriously screwed up.

Those cops were there to save lives and deter a potential catastrophe, not to worry about stepping on someone's lawn. When they determined the situation was under control, they left. They only cared about doing their job. You don't want them to protect you? Go to prison. They don't give a f*** what happens to you in there. And by the end, you'll be screaming for them to trespass on your "territory". End of story.

edit on 5-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Of course it does....

No your priorities are.

You cannot violate EVERYONE's fundamental rights, because you are SCARED!!!!

THEY HAVE to care about stepping on someone's lawn. That person is the ruler of their PROPERTY...They have the authority by ANY means necessary to protect their lives and property from assault, even from the police.

That's why police have to be issued a warrant, (granting them the authority to trespass and search and seize property). Police do not implicitly have any more authority than you or I.

We grant them the authority to enforce the law with certain restrictions. Among those restrictions are the requirement that "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

That is straight forward and simple to see. No member of government has ANY authority beyond that which they have been granted by the consent of the people.

No part of the government can supersede that authority, even the supreme court. The final authority in our form of government is THE PEOPLE...Yes I said is...not are...

The people have established the system of government as declared in the Declaration of Independence and said govt is bound by it.

This does not mean that the govt can manipulate words to mean something else or that they can place judges in that will do what they want so that they can do whatever they want.

It means they are bound by it....PERIOD.

The People gave them the means to change it. 2/3rds of both houses and 3/4ths of the states.

Short of this, you stating that your safety comes before my rights is moot. that cops are willing to violate their oath of office is moot. It is illegal and we have the right to state that they cannot do it.

Does it tie their hands???Absolutely...It's supposed to, to prevent injustices from prevailing.

Injustice from person to person is the under the purview of the government that we grant the authority to oversee.

Injustice from govt to person is under the purview of the highest authority, 'The People'.

That isn't a person, I don't get my rights from YOU or other PEOPLE, or even The People. My and your rights are unalienable, no one grants them to us, we have them by right of existence.

You do not have the authority to grant others the authority to supersede MY rights. I don't have the authority to grant others authority over YOUR rights.

Jaden

Originally posted by SloAnPainful
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

They didn't see them, "they got a call" about people who "may be" selling firearms. It had nothing to do with the "seeing" them "in the open".

-SAP-

edit on 5-7-2012 by SloAnPainful because: (no reason given)

once they were on the spot, not yet on the property, they DID see them, thus the probable cause to enter. end of story.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

So? Either you want security, or you don't.

Sure I want security. I want security from oppressive governments that pump so much fear into people that they end up making comments like yours!!!

Originally posted by Masterjaden

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by blupblup

 

First of all, stop pretending you are better than the cops. Regardless of how many of them have displayed brutality, they still have a job to do, and our privacy doesn't make a damned bit of difference if there's something dangerous going on.

Right now, every time they respond to a situation involving possibly weaponry, they have to assume we're every bit as dangerous as they are. And when they're responsible for the lives of everyone around them, are they really going to just knock on the front door? Because that's always how we find meth labs and crap....right.

You guys just found something to complain about, and now you're going to bleed it because you want someone to point the finger at. But the fact remains: had there been a dangerous situation, these police were ready to deal with it. But there wasn't, and no one got hurt except for the stuck-up jerkoffs who decided that since their little private property was invaded, they had the right to impede an officer doing his job for the safety of the community.

You people sicken me. Stop bitching and accept that because enemies come from both within and outside of our borders, cops have to take their job seriously. If you'd rather they NOT take their job seriously...yeah. Think about that.

edit on 5-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

OHHHHH YOU MAKE ME SICK!!!!!!
OF COURSE my privacy makes a difference whether something dangerous is going on or NOT!!!!

We have given police the authority to enforce LEGAL laws while requiring them to take an oath to hold the highest law, our rights, in higher esteem than any orders or illegal laws.

There is a reason that they don't have authority to search and seize property on a whim and that is that our Liberty is not appointed by them and WE, the GRANTERS of their AUTHORITY, have not GRANTED them the authority to overstep those bounds.

That is regardless of whether or not, they PERCEIVE there to be something "Dangerous" going on.

They have to respect our Liberty first and foremost.

That you seem to think that your SAFETY supersedes my fundamental rights puts YOU in a precarious position. Because one of my other fundamental rights and the oath I took allows me to DEFEND those rights from all enemies foreign and domestic.

You do NOT have the authority to GRANT ANYONE the authority to supersede MY rights because you are scared...

Jaden

you are SOO horribly wrong, it is MY right to call something suspisious in, then it is the cops RESPONSIBILITY to check on it.

see, i can do caps too.

Another case of 'boy who cried wolf'. Threads like these are the reason I can't freely share this site with other people. First you have the OP blowing this completely out of proportion, showing a video of people that actually DON'T seem to know the law that well. Then you have a series of posters going "blah take that coppers!" with the occasional voice of reason going "uh, ridiculous" being drowned out.

Yes, the cop actually had the right to search that area. A call of possible firearm sales is the reason he was out there. From the side walk, something that is made to resemble a firearm is visible. This makes his entry onto the property to examine those items completely legal. He examined the Airsoft guns and came to the conclusion, "what I saw was not an illegal firearm" and proceeded to the sidewalk. The only reason they were still there after that is because they wanted to see a supervisor. After they changed their mind on the supervisor part, the officers left.

Anybody who says, "Oh, they should have stayed on the sidewalk and talked to the property owner" doesn't understand how the law works. While he had no cause to enter the house (which he didn't), he did have cause to walk on the property to check out the Airsoft guns on the table. The officer acted very professionally not losing his cool or arguing with somebody who was clearly trying to create a scene.

I'm all for justice against police abuses, but these days it seems like people are confusing police abuses with their lack of understanding the law. The sheep mentality on this site after the OP is sadly not limited to this thread. A flood of reactionary posts that fail to engage in any sort of investigatory effort. Rather than say, "Okay, well lets go over step by step what happen in this video, and check out the legal basis for such acts according to California law." countless posters essentially went "Aw yeah, suck it cops."

Yes cops should know a lot of the rules and regulations, especially the most well known and highly publicized and scrutinized ones. I think it is funny that they are targeted for every little thing they do not know. The only ignorant person is the one that expects the other to know everything there is to know about their craft. The cop in no way was rude or did he act in a way that seemed he was purposely tormenting these people. The lady came off nagging right away, rather that using a calm collected voice to inform, she used annoying repetitive statements to incriminate. Tone of voice has a lot to do with the meaning of whats said. If you decide to video tape yourself to make a point then pay close attention to how you present yourself. In this video no one is right.

reply to post by Masterjaden


You could have shortened your post down a lot if you said, "I don't understand the law, but here's my interpretation of the events based on my limited understanding of a constitutional amendment."

Even if the phone call was an anonymous tip, once he arrived and saw items that resembled firearms, he had the authority to investigate said items. He didn't have the authority to do an entire search (something that would require a search warrant), but he did have the authority to walk up to the items that were in clear view from the street, as the anonymous tip and the items together were enough to warrant such an action. After he investigated those items, he got off the property as asked.

Probable cause deals with a criminal act. If having guns in the yard in that state is legal, then no cause. If there is illegal sale made and they witness it then arrest.

Just because other people come into a yard at a sale, the owner still has the right to refuse entry to someone else.

Originally posted by jude11
The only thing more dangerous than a free citizen is an educated free citizen.

Know your rights and use them or lose them.

You can't be a "citizen" and "free" at the same time. It's one or the other.

If you know what 'citizen' means, you would definitely not have said all that. "Education" is nothing more than brainwashing and indoctrination. Knowledge is better.

Why do people swear in the name of 'education' is beyond me. "Uneducated" is used a lot as some kind of a synonym for "stupid". There are very intelligent people who are 'uneducated'. Jesus was 'uneducated', and yet I'd rather listen to him than anyone 'educated'.

"Education" does not equal knowledge, let alone wisdom or intelligence, even. It equals a programmed mind-set with imposed limitations which efficiently stop people from finding out the truth about reality and the 'system' especially.

"Citizen" is someone who has willingly consented to be governed by acts and statutes of the 'system', and thus performed a joinder between himself/herself and the dead entity called 'person' (or 'strawman'). That means they have in effect given up their rights for privileges. That's why "civil rights" is something that can be given or taken away, just like any privileges. If you are a citizen, you don't HAVE rights, you only have privileges.

(I know, rights are unalienable, whereas privileges can be taken away, but I am talking about 'in effect' here - you still HAVE your rights of course, you have simply consented to not being able to use them. It's just like a situation where you have agreed to let someone hit you in your stomach, or even asked someone to do it to you. You still have the right to not being punched, but you have consented to not using it.)

Don't be a "citizen". Be a freeman, a live, human being. Only then you can be free. Otherwise it's just a baby whining about rights while wearing diapers. Of course the parents won't be taking such a baby's whining seriously.

"Educated citizen" simply means "Indoctrinated 'person' with no rights, that belongs to the 'system'". Don't be educated, learn instead. Don't be a citizen, be free instead. This is my advice - take it or leave it.

Even if the phone call was an anonymous tip, once he arrived and saw items that resembled firearms, he had the authority to investigate said items.

reply to post by grimreaper797


Isn't that if the item is illegal. But I bet if there were children in the yard that might be breaking some law concerning firearm safety and children.

I understand that the police officer was out of line staying on the property after he was asked to leave, but come on...it WAS a yard sale, which normally means people, even cops, can go onto the property and check out what is being sold. But at the same time, the police were obviously not on their property to buy stuff, and even came off as kind of rude. I think both sides of this have a decent argument, although if it were me, and I had nothing to hide, I probably would have just let them check.

We have given police the authority to enforce LEGAL laws while requiring them to take an oath to hold the highest law, our rights, in higher esteem than any orders or illegal laws.

There is a reason that they don't have authority to search and seize property on a whim and that is that our Liberty is not appointed by them and WE, the GRANTERS of their AUTHORITY, have not GRANTED them the authority to overstep those bounds.

While you certainly have the right attitude, your information seems a bit inaccurate, and you have confused law and the legal system. They are two separate things.

Law is something we ALL must obey, no exceptions. Something is either unlawful or lawful, and it's as simple as that. There is no grey area.

Legal system is something ONLY those must obey who have specifically consented to being governed by them (by 'applying', 'submitting' or 'registering', for example - "to apply" = "to beg"). Those people have begged the government to govern them with acts and statutes, which form the legal system's rules.

If you have not consented to being governed by acts and statutes, you don't have to obey ANYTHING "legal". You can do anything that's "illegal", perfectly lawfully.

If you don't understand (a tricky word, beware when the police use it) what I am talking about, just check

yourstrawman.com...

(An excellent website, dedicated to explaining all this in a clear and easy to read way)

You can also get the basic information from this video:

www.youtube.com...

Hopefully no one thinks you need PERMITS from now on .. you don't need a permit to own a gun, you don't need a license to drive a car, you don't need to register your children or your car, and so on. LEARN, please!

reply to post by redsox91296


That's the level head thinking. it is usually not a good idea to get on the bad side of the local beat cops.