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Police Attempt To Raid Garage Sale with AirSoft gear, Get Kicked To Curb (video)

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posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Sek82
Okay Ben I like your threads but this one... I'm not taking the bait.
So they are selling Airsoft guns, no big deal once that is known. But they could very well be real M4s from a distance, can they not? They got a call from some other concerned citizen and are just responding to it.

So residents are holding a Garage Sale, and when a cop steps up to check out the wares, the "Private Property" card gets pulled and I'm supposed to side with the idiots selling this stuff?

This can be compared to that guy who was questioned by police while carrying an arsenal of weapons, you are right. They are trolling for police response just to put it on YouTube while crying about their rights being infringed upon.


The point is that it doesn't matter even is they WERE real M4's....

The cops do not have the authority, (please people, stop using the term rights), to go onto private property without consent or a warrant or witness something that represents an immediate obviously illegal act.

Don't say that an anonymous complaint counts as probable cause. They would need an actual witness to give an official statement testifying that they were illegally selling guns for it to have been justified. Then the cop could take that official statement to a judge and get a warrant to check the validity of the claim.

Cops CANNOT just act on a WHIM.... We have not given them the authority to.

Jaden




posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by Ben81
 


Yes, the police absolutely hate when you know the law and your rights. They thrive on people being ignorant of their rights and the law.

A co-worker (who we will call "Stan") was telling me a couple weekends ago that he and a friend of his were out after dark one night in his friends new car. It was a mustang or something like that. Well, they went into a parking lot and did some donuts and laid some tire. "Stan" videotaped the whole thing on a digital videocamera he had with him. After they pulled out of the parking lot he was still taping and after pulling out of the parking lot and riding down the road about 10 yards away a cop car was coming toward and saw "Stan" holding his video camera out the window. The cop did a u-turn and pulled them over. Somehow or another these cops knew someone had laid tire in the parking lot (they claimed they could smell it although they came in the opposite direction).

The cop kept trying to tell "Stan" to turn off his camera to which he refused over and over again, telling them that they didn't have the authority to order such a thing. They had "Stan" get out of the car and kept asking him to turn off his camera which he refused. They searched him and then had him sit back in the car. They took his friend off to the side and were saying to him things like, "We don't care if you did it. Just be honest and tell us the truth that you did and we'll let you go. We're not going to arrest you or fine you for it."

Hearing this from in the car "Stan" yelled out, "They can legally lie to you." which further pissed off the cops. In the end they had no evidence and there was nothing they could do about it so they let "Stan" and his friend go.

The moral of the story is it always helps to know your rights and what the law says. Citizens need to protect themselves and their rights!


edit on 5-7-2012 by CoolerAbdullah786 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by blupblup
 


First of all, stop pretending you are better than the cops. Regardless of how many of them have displayed brutality, they still have a job to do, and our privacy doesn't make a damned bit of difference if there's something dangerous going on.

Right now, every time they respond to a situation involving possibly weaponry, they have to assume we're every bit as dangerous as they are. And when they're responsible for the lives of everyone around them, are they really going to just knock on the front door? Because that's always how we find meth labs and crap....right.

You guys just found something to complain about, and now you're going to bleed it because you want someone to point the finger at. But the fact remains: had there been a dangerous situation, these police were ready to deal with it. But there wasn't, and no one got hurt except for the stuck-up jerkoffs who decided that since their little private property was invaded, they had the right to impede an officer doing his job for the safety of the community.

You people sicken me. Stop bitching and accept that because enemies come from both within and outside of our borders, cops have to take their job seriously. If you'd rather they NOT take their job seriously...yeah. Think about that.
edit on 5-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 




What?

What are you talking about?

Where in my post did I claim or state that I am "better than the cops"?

I think you need to edit your post and leave me out of your reply.... you really wanted to moan and bitch at everyone on this thread with a differing opinion to yours, not actually at me.

I have made one post in this thread and NOWHERE did it mention being better that the police.


So wind your neck in.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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The Code of Federal Regulations Title 15, part 1150.2, states "no person shall manufacture, enter into commerce, ship, transport, or receive any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm" without the requisite blaze orange marking. A waiver may be obtained (1150.5) by the theatrical, movie, or television industries.

ecfr.gpoaccess.gov...



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Quoop
 


Because you're totally going to walk up to someone who is possibly dealing in weaponry and say, "Excuse me, sir, mind if I have a word about a potantially legal activity in progress here?" On the off chance that the person who called had it right, the officer is possibly dealing with a redneck who'd sooner shoot the cop in the face than give him the time of day.

Privacy went out the window with 9/11, people. You're either going to be kept safe, or you get to do what you want, and to hell with whatever happens to you. It doesn't work both ways. Those who sacrifice security for liberty, clearly don't need any kind of law. Next time someone breaks your window, don't bother calling the cops. After all, it's private property and no one is being hurt.

Tough luck, pal.


No 9/11 did NOTHING to eliminate my right to privacy. The only thing that can do that, strike that, NOTHING can do that. But fools thinking that at the least it doesn't take 2/3rds of both houses and 3/4ths of the states are relying on someone that can't protect them from those who will fight for Liberty.

Those who sacrifice liberty for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both...

Jaden
edit on 5-7-2012 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by EnigmaticDill
 


Well not everyone lives in your world either, probable cause is constitutional. Which these officers possessed when objects that looked like guns were being sold at a garage sale. The normal things sold at a garage sale are not guns, so I can understand a concerned citizen calling the cops to investigate. It turned out nothing was amiss but the cops still had every right to step on the property of the "store" and investigate the wares. When a garage sale is put on it becomes a store essentially and is open to all who want to come in. Plus the wares were out in the open again open to probable cause. Do not try to turn this into some emotional issue, it is a legal issue that matters not whose children or whatever you are trying to argue here.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by denynothing
reply to post by EnigmaticDill
 


Well not everyone lives in your world either, probable cause is constitutional. Which these officers possessed when objects that looked like guns were being sold at a garage sale. The normal things sold at a garage sale are not guns, so I can understand a concerned citizen calling the cops to investigate. It turned out nothing was amiss but the cops still had every right to step on the property of the "store" and investigate the wares. When a garage sale is put on it becomes a store essentially and is open to all who want to come in. Plus the wares were out in the open again open to probable cause. Do not try to turn this into some emotional issue, it is a legal issue that matters not whose children or whatever you are trying to argue here.



EEHHHHHH worng answer....

That is first off NOT probable cause, and secondly the constitution says NOTHING about a cop being able to arbitrarily DECIDE he HAS probable cause. It states that a warrant being ISSUED UPON probable cause....

You see just because something COULD be illegal does not constitute a crime. If I'm selling a piece of bubble gum, it COULD be illegal, that doesn't give a cop the authority to arrest me on suspicion of selling gum that was smuggled into the US without proper customs controls...It doesn't even give him the authority to ASK me if it was brought in legally.

They have to be aware of a specific crime having been committed and have probable cause of either an immediate threat or have a warrant issued upon probable cause or an official statement by a third party.

Jaden
edit on 5-7-2012 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Masterjaden

Originally posted by Sek82
Okay Ben I like your threads but this one... I'm not taking the bait.
So they are selling Airsoft guns, no big deal once that is known. But they could very well be real M4s from a distance, can they not? They got a call from some other concerned citizen and are just responding to it.

So residents are holding a Garage Sale, and when a cop steps up to check out the wares, the "Private Property" card gets pulled and I'm supposed to side with the idiots selling this stuff?

This can be compared to that guy who was questioned by police while carrying an arsenal of weapons, you are right. They are trolling for police response just to put it on YouTube while crying about their rights being infringed upon.


The point is that it doesn't matter even is they WERE real M4's....

The cops do not have the authority, (please people, stop using the term rights), to go onto private property without consent or a warrant or witness something that represents an immediate obviously illegal act.

Don't say that an anonymous complaint counts as probable cause. They would need an actual witness to give an official statement testifying that they were illegally selling guns for it to have been justified. Then the cop could take that official statement to a judge and get a warrant to check the validity of the claim.

Cops CANNOT just act on a WHIM.... We have not given them the authority to.

Jaden




Actually I am pretty sure they can act on a whim. The Patriot act and the NDAA bill pretty much give them the right to do whatever they want. The framework is in place whether they use it is up to them at this point.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Masterjaden

Originally posted by Sek82
Okay Ben I like your threads but this one... I'm not taking the bait.
So they are selling Airsoft guns, no big deal once that is known. But they could very well be real M4s from a distance, can they not? They got a call from some other concerned citizen and are just responding to it.

So residents are holding a Garage Sale, and when a cop steps up to check out the wares, the "Private Property" card gets pulled and I'm supposed to side with the idiots selling this stuff?

This can be compared to that guy who was questioned by police while carrying an arsenal of weapons, you are right. They are trolling for police response just to put it on YouTube while crying about their rights being infringed upon.


The point is that it doesn't matter even is they WERE real M4's....

The cops do not have the authority, (please people, stop using the term rights), to go onto private property without consent or a warrant or witness something that represents an immediate obviously illegal act.

Don't say that an anonymous complaint counts as probable cause. They would need an actual witness to give an official statement testifying that they were illegally selling guns for it to have been justified. Then the cop could take that official statement to a judge and get a warrant to check the validity of the claim.

Cops CANNOT just act on a WHIM.... We have not given them the authority to.

Jaden


you're wrong.

the call gives them a reason to drive by, then the "guns" on the table (plain sight) gives them probale cause, cops were right, you are wrong.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by Masterjaden
 


They could see the weapons from the street. thus they had their probable cause. Open view items instantly give probable cause. Its why at a party you close the blinds and keep things out of view when a cop shows up. If they see a beer bottle or paraphernalia they have legal authority to enter the premises.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by blupblup
 


Those words weren't said, but with all the griping going on, it sure sounds like you think that way. The cops did their job, they were prepared to deal with a hairy situation, and they get this kind of appreciation for it. They are paid to protect; don't get ornery when they do the job.

Oh, and it wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at this entire thread. I'll be the first to point out when a cop is wrong; but imagine how many times some cops wandered into this situation and walked out with one less standing. And these people complain because of some privacy issues? Think of the cops that have lost their lives doing exactly this kind of thing.
edit on 5-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:07 PM
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Good find Bennyboy
S&F

Some of the coments in this thread just go to show how brainwashed the average citizen is.

To those who say -
"They should have just let the cops have a look and it would have all been over"
Well you people just dont know the half of it.

Once they are allowed onto the property the owner will be asked for various forms of ID, many questions about where they got the goods, children interviewd, vehicles will be checked, statements taken, etc etc. And it will all be logged into a database FOR EVER!!!



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by Masterjaden
 


Probable cause can be defined as a belief that a crime is being committed, the imitation guns give the cop their probable cause plus they're in the open and thus open to searches under probable cause.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by never2late
The Code of Federal Regulations Title 15, part 1150.2, states "no person shall manufacture, enter into commerce, ship, transport, or receive any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm" without the requisite blaze orange marking. A waiver may be obtained (1150.5) by the theatrical, movie, or television industries.

ecfr.gpoaccess.gov...


Federal regulations can be cited all day long, that does not make it legal nor does it give them the authority to arbitrarily decide that they have probable cause. You see the constitution is there for a reason. It provides specific restrictions to all forms of government and specific POWERS to the Federal govt.

Jaden



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by VoidHawk
 


So? Either you want security, or you don't.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by VoidHawk
 


This isn't the place for a slippery slope argument. The fact of the matter is the cop have probable cause to search the guns. He did not have probable cause to search their cars or anything else. Yes he would have asked for their names, in case perhaps another call comes against the garage sale. Plus you are already in the "system" birth certificate, social security number, phone book, mailing address. The government knows who you are, how much you make, how much in taxes you pay, where you were born.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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Seems like the woman kind of baited them into everything, but I still don't think the cops should go onto peoples property whenever they want. On the other hand someone saw that they were selling what they thought were lethal weapons in their front yard (which may or may not be legal depending on where they live) and were worried enough about their safety to call the cops, and all she was worried about was the cop walking 5 feet onto her grass to look at the guns. If it was such a big deal for them being on the property they could have just brought the guns to the cop car or the sidewalk so they could take a look. They would have seen they were plastic and just left without all the commotion. The way she acts you'd think they were trying to search her house or were falsely arresting someone.

95% of the time I don't agree with the way the cops deal with people with firearms, but in this case I don't think they did anything wrong. That woman was just a drama queen.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by AnonATI
 


Seriously, what do you expect when you leave guns out in the open? It's kinda their job to keep an eye on things, and I'd say leaving those guns unchecked would constitute a greater oversight than examining the pieces uninvited.

If you think that walking away from those guns without looking would have been the lesser of two evils, then I deeply question your judgment, ATSers.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by Kangaruex4Ewe
Man...I hate to see if they ever call and need help! These cops are going to remember these folks.
That's what makes it bad when someone does have a justifiable complaint. The repercussions that follow in some cases.

It didn't hurt to let the cops check out what they were selling without causing an issue...but I can see the "principle".

ETA, that it is always a good thing to know your rights. Most folks just assume that what some LEO's do is always by the book...and that is not always the case in every case.

edit on 7/4/2012 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)


Love liberty or lose it! That said they got a call, and then saw weapons so the police were actually in the right on this one.
edit on 5-7-2012 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)




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