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Erdogan - once upon a time

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posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 02:52 PM

Bashar al-Assad: The question you need to ask in order to get an answer is this: Who has changed? He or I? You can reach some conclusions by looking at the change that has come about in our region. For instance, just look at the countries around us. There has been no change in Syria’s relations with Iran, Iraq and Lebanon during this process. Now look at the opposite: You can look at the course of Turkey’s relations with Iran, Iraq, Lebanon and Jordan and reach a conclusion yourself. The relations between all these countries and Turkey have deteriorated. That goes to show that Erdogan himself has changed.

Coming to what has happened; in his relations with us, Erdogan has gone beyond friendship and brotherhood and moved towards interfering with our internal affairs. We are, however, a sovereign country. We are a country with self-respect. We would never allow those outside us to meddle in our affairs.

This initial wish to interfere with our internal affairs has unfortunately rendered Turkey as a party in the following period in all the bloody incidents in Syria. Turkey has given every logistical support to terrorists who killed our people. And then, through embarking on adventures dangerous for both Turkey and Syria, our relations acquired a different dimension. These were the things experienced in our political relations.

There is also other aspect regarding what happened between us which has to do with the Prime Minister’s personal traits. I must say that in the statements he made, he exceeded every line of manners and respect and went too far, and he has far exceeded the line between two politicians and two people.

C: From what you have said, do we read that Erdogan has changed? What is it exactly that has changed?

BA: In fact, the circumstances, more than Erdogan, have changed. And these new circumstances have revealed the true face of Erdogan. Let me explain by these examples: We all know Erdogan's stance when Israel attacked the Gaza.

However, when Israel conducted the same attack against Lebanon in 2006 Erdogan did not display a reaction in the same tone. However, both those in the Gaza and Lebanon are fighting against the single enemy, that is Israel. Israel killed almost the same number of people on both sides: 1,600 people. Why is it that when Hamas is involved, he takes ownership of Gaza and raises hell and when the issue is Lebanon where Hezbollah is present, he is silent?

UC: Why is it so, in your opinion?

BA: It is because he is acting on religious sectarian motives. His demarches always reveal what's on his mind. For instance, why is it that he sheds crocodile tears for the people of Syria while he sheds no tears for those killed in the Gulf countries? Why doesn't he interfere with the issue of democracy in those countries?

UC: What countries are you talking about?

BA: You could say, the Gulf countries, including Qatar.

For instance why hasn't Turkey taken a single step after the Mavi Marmara incident other than shouting about it? Despite its cocky stance against Israel, why did Turkey allow a missile shield that will protect Israel to be deployed on its soil?

Do you believe the US deployed that radar in Turkey for a threat directed against itself? Which country can pose a threat against the US from such a distance anyway? Of course, that is not the reason. The answer is, to protect Israel.

These developments have revealed the true face of Erdogan. Erdogan has not changed. The outlook of people towards Erdogan has changed. Erdogan and his reliability is now debatable in the entire Arab geography.

UC: Have you burned the bridges with Erdogan?

BA: Yes, almost. Because he has lost his credibility in this geography.

This is not a personal issue. It's not in the eyes of Syria alone, but also the same in the eyes of other Arab people in the region.

UC: Is there a way out of the crisis between Syria and Turkey in your opinion?

BA: First, the Turkish government must step back from its mistakes.
It should not use small incidents to create big issues. They should protect the interests of our peoples rather than go after personal interests and goals. The consciousness of the Turkish and Syrian people will overcome that.

If he genuinely looks for a way out of the crisis, he should heed the words of the dead pilot’s father who stands honourably against war.

UC: In his recent statement, the Prime Minister said you did not keep your promise. What did he want and what did you promise?

BA: Even these words alone testify to the fact that he is meddling in our internal affairs. If the Prime Minister is not a party in Syrian internal policies, how can it be construed that I make promises to him? He was asking me some questions, making some recommendations. And I was telling him my own views regarding the incidents. We were having a chat. He was recommending some reforms. But I was already telling my people the same things I told him and I was taking steps in that direction.

We started taking significant steps towards reforms six days after the incidents started on March 15. If you go to Erdogan now, he would say 'reforms' again. However, if he were sincere, he would have said the same things he is saying now, back in 2004 during our discussions. Why did he not mention reforms back in 2004?

Here there is a double standard, some hypocrisy.

Was it the case that he was not so sensitive for the Syrian people before and then these feelings suddenly emerged? Did he receive a divine revelation from above later? Does he love the Syrian people more than I love them? There is some hypocrisy here. Instead of meddling in other people's affairs he should take care of his own internal affairs. He should leave us aside and try to implement whatever is left of his "zero problems with neighbours" policy.

UC: You said reforms in the general sense, but what did the Prime Minister specifically ask for? BA: The project in his and in his team's mind is a larger one. It's larger than Syria. In fact, it is a project that encompasses my position as well. He has his own special agenda. He wanted terrorists to be free in Syria, he wanted no pressure to be placed on them and he wanted us not to defend ourselves against them. He would have been very happy if we did those things.

UC: Who are you talking about, the Ikhwan movement ?

BA: Ikhwan is part of it. Since our earlier talks, he was very excited about the Muslim Brothers movement in Syria. He was so concerned about them that he did not place that much importance on the development of Turkey-Syria relations.

The instinct of helping Muslim Brothers and defending them has become the real basic premise of his Syrian policy. Of course, on this issue we have not given permission - and will not give permission -to Erdogan or anyone else.

UC: What kind of messages did the Turkish delegation give you during the discussions you had? We heard that you said to the CHP (Republican People's Party) group that visited you, "Erdogan and Davutoglu are bringing the messages of the US to us".

BA: They did not bring many new messages.They were elaborating on the issues voiced by the US in greater detail. What they brought as messages was generally not new, other than threats and intimidation.


Once upon a time,Muslims were really proud of what Erdogan did in the Zionists conference
edit on 4-7-2012 by mideast because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 02:52 PM
But after he let the US missile defend shield be installed in Turkey , we knew that he is really a double face. So , I think Erdogan will lose popularity as he plays as US puppet and Saddam is awaiting him down the well.

Erdogan is really walking path of Saddam and he thinks he is smart and American politicians will let him do whatever he wants. The fact is that Saddam had the biggest oil resource of the world to rely on , and Turkey just has an empty promise.

According to a report by al Manar Palestine website, Israel is still smuggling weapons to terrorist and rebel groups in Syria.

The report said that the three Israeli planes shipped the weapons cargos to an area in Turkey 60km near the borders with Syria.

The report added that arms smuggling to Syrian terrorist groups came after Qatari intelligence elements and the head of Qatar's intelligence service had held secret talks in Tel Aviv.

The website quoted unknown sources as saying that Israeli military experts and trainers are also stationed at the Turkey-Syria borders to supervise the operations for delivering the arms cargos to terrorists and to teach them how to use the advanced weapons and communications systems.

Earlier, the US media revealed that the CIA is helping to vet Syrian rebel groups for arms shipments paid for by Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar.

According to a June 24 report by The New York Times, the CIA is helping to funnel the arms to rebel groups. The weapons include automatic rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, ammunition, and some antitank weapons, according to the report, which cited unnamed American and Arab intelligence officials.

Syrian Ambassador to the UN Bashar Jaafari said that the government has tried unilateral cease-fires, but that the rebels used the lulls in fighting to gather more arms.

He also accused Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey of intentionally undermining the observer mission.

"They are providing weapons, sending in al-Qaeda, giving them haven, allowing them to cross the border with Syria and then run back to neighboring countries, " Jaafari said, according to The Wall Street Journal. "This is becoming so blatant and flagrant, it is too much."

Similar media reports in June said that the Qatari government has taken several arms cargos to the Iraqi Kurdistan region on Israeli aircraft and intends to smuggle these weapons into Syria in a bid to equip armed rebels.

Nakhel news agency quoted informed sources as saying that the arms cargos have been covertly sent to the Iraqi Kurdistan on Israeli aircraft.

The report mentioned that the needed funds for supplying the cargos have been provided by the Qatari government, and added that the weapons are destined for Syria.

Syria has been experiencing unrest since March 2011 with organized attacks by well-armed gangs against Syrian police forces and border guards being reported across the country.

Hundreds of people, including members of the security forces, have been killed, when some protest rallies turned into armed clashes.

The government blames outlaws, saboteurs, and armed terrorist groups for the deaths, stressing that the unrest is being orchestrated from abroad.

In October, calm was eventually restored in the Arab state after President Assad started a reform initiative in the country, but Israel, the US and its Arab allies are seeking hard to bring the country into chaos through any possible means. Tel Aviv, Washington and some Arab capitals have been staging various plots in the hope of increasing unrests in Syria.


posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 03:31 PM
Thanks so much for this, it answers some questions I'd been wondering about. Erdogan's actions and words have, to me, seemed contradictory so much of the time. I had been thinking that he was perhaps sitting on the fence and trying to keep everyone around him a bit off balance by switching loyalties to who ever seems to be the most useful at the moment. Thank you for clearing some of that up (though it's still very confusing). Assad was very articulate in this interview- I think I understand his frustrations.

What do you think Erdogan's relationship with Russia is? I expect it's not good, though it wouldn't be in Turkey's interest to take an overt stand against Russia, would it? When Erdogan allowed the missile shield to be put in Turkey it really shocked me as I was thinking along the lines of it being an affront to Russia. What do you think will happen in Cyprus?

So sorry if I seem misinformed. That's why I ask questions- trying to learn

posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 03:58 AM
reply to post by seaside sky

That was really confusing for me ,too.

That is the time when a president is getting near to the end of the line. When a president like Erdogan is playing the puppet , the honor of his nation will hurt and for Turk people who really care about their honor , this is not good.

Ignoarant people think that it is the war of Shia and Sunni which they see in Syria . But the truth is that Bashar from Alavi minority has ruled Syria for years and people were truly in peace.

Until the Islam spring began and people were stimulated there. But the fact is that Egypt and Turkey are really playing hard to ruin the peace in Syria. one of the rules is "goal justifies the mean". Maybe Turkey is influenced by the big advertisement of the US govt throughout the world. Maybe Erdogan has seen the 2012 movie.

The truth is that Shia is spreading through out the world by it's great logic. And that is what Erdogan is afraid of. But he has started a dangerous game for himself. The danger is not from Shia , but it is from US and Russia.

Saudi Arabia is in Syria for it's Wahhabi side ....

US and NATO are for Israel and oil and great geopolitical situation....

And that will be the Part that both Egypt and Turkey are going to be stabbed in the back from US.

Btw , Erdogan is playing the smart puppet.

That is all I know.

posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 06:03 AM

It is told that the plane was going to bombard some Syrian cities.

But the plan was more complicated.

There are kits and codes installed on training warplanes which indicates that plane as training plane on the radar. So that the control tower will not indicate it as a enemy warplane. That codes is unique , top secret and impossible to get in every country.

Some days before the crash , there was a Syrian training pilot who escaped his training and ran to Jordan.

In Jordan they managed to get the kit of Syrian training airplanes.

The transferred the kit to Turkey by an Israeli jet.

Then they installed the kit on Turkish warplane.

Then that Jet was going to be bombard Syrian cities without being spotted by Syrian air defense. And then every one was going to blame it on Bashar Asad.

But the whole plan was a failure.

So , Syria is doing more investigation on plain ,

Erdogan has lost credit once more.

It has been told in multiple sites in Iran.

But I can not find more evidence.

I think this is a part of info war.
edit on 5-7-2012 by mideast because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 06:33 AM
reply to post by mideast

There is no such thing as a training code being transmitted to avoid defenses. There is an IFF code transmitted to identify a plane on radar, but there's no "training kit" to avoid defenses. There may be a certain code that can be put in as your IFF code, but it changes daily, or sometimes hourly. Turkey would know this, and wouldn't try to use one days later. It's accepted practice that you warn an aircraft that penetrates your airspace before you shoot at them.

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