Iran lawmakers prepare to close Hormuz Strait

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Not really.. The straights are an international waterway

How is it an international waterway.. Its only about 20 miles wide at its small point.. Coastal states are allowed to claim about 12 miles out..

Read up on UNCLOS.

Territorial waters range from 3 miles out to a max of 12 miles, depending on location and geography. For the straights of Hormuz there is a 6 mile wide international waterway that is not part of Iranian or Oman territorial waters.

While researching info about the coldwar I came across movies dealing with the topic of WWIII. Specifically the movie Countdown to Looking Glass is one that jumped out at me.

The setup for the movie (Its a Canadian movie) deals with the Middle East, South America, A world financial banking crisis, the assasination of the US Ambassador in Saudi Arabia, A military coup in Oman that was supported by the Soviet Union, blockade of the straights of hormuz resulting in the oil shipments being stopped cold, a carrier battlegroup which comes under attack from a soviet subarine as well as air units from Iran / Kuwait.

Click the link for the wiki pgae to read about the rest of the plot. Either the creators of that movie had impeccable knowledge about the region, they came from the future or the players in the Middle East stumbled across the movie plot and thought it was a good idea.

Either way I thought I would share as the similarities are eery....

reply to post by Xcathdra

Read up on UNCLOS. Territorial waters range from 3 miles out to a max of 12 miles, depending on location and geography. For the straights of Hormuz there is a 6 mile wide international waterway that is not part of Iranian or Oman territorial waters.

Yes but in whos rule book.... Thw straits are a tangle and the laws there are not as crisp as you make out.

reply to post by Xcathdra

Sometimes when creative people call on their imagination something else happens
I hope that the film will break before we get to the end of the movie
en.wikipedia.org...

Text
Futility, or the Wreck of the Titan is an 1898 novella written by Morgan Robertson. The story features the ocean liner Titan, which sinks in the North Atlantic after striking an iceberg. The Titan and its sinking have been noted to be very similar to the real-life passenger ship RMS Titanic, which sank fourteen years later. Following the wreck the novel was reissued with some changes, particularly in the ship's gross tonnage, to make it closer to the Titanic

Beyond the name, the similarities between the Titanic and the fictional Titan include:[4]
Both were triple screw (propeller)
Described as "unsinkable" The Titanic was the world's largest luxury liner (882 feet, displacing 63,000 long tons), and was once described by newspapers as being "practically unsinkable". [5]
The Titan was the largest craft afloat and the greatest of the works of men (800 feet, displacing 75,000 tons, up from 45,000 in the 1898 edition), and was considered "unsinkable".

Shortage of lifeboats The Titanic carried only 16 lifeboats, plus 4 Engelhardt folding lifeboats,[6] less than half the number required for her passenger and crew capacity of 3000.
The Titan carried "as few as the law allowed", 24 lifeboats, less than half needed for her 3000 capacity.

Struck an iceberg Moving at 22½ knots, [7] the Titanic struck an iceberg on the starboard side on the night of April 14, 1912 in the North Atlantic 400 miles away from Newfoundland.
Also on an April night, in the North Atlantic 400 miles from Newfoundland (Terranova), the Titan hit an iceberg while traveling at 25 knots, also on the starboard side.

Sinking The unsinkable Titanic sank, and more than half of her 2200 passengers and crew died.
The indestructible Titan also sank, more than half of her 2500 passengers drowning.
Went down bow first, the Titan actually capsizing before it sank.

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Read up on UNCLOS. Territorial waters range from 3 miles out to a max of 12 miles, depending on location and geography. For the straights of Hormuz there is a 6 mile wide international waterway that is not part of Iranian or Oman territorial waters.

Yes but in whos rule book.... Thw straits are a tangle and the laws there are not as crisp as you make out.

I think common sense plays a roll.

Can you imagine the conversation the Iranian military has with the politicians?

- You want us to shutdown the Straight of Hormuz? For how long?

- What's the endgame???

- How will all of this play out at the United Nations?

reply to post by redneck13


Agreed -

There is no present or future, only the past, happening over and over again, now.
- Eugene O'Neill

well USA has put sanctions on Iran and has exempted the main oil buyers of Iran.
and Iran just says I will close the strait.
a boasting against a boasting. I do not think it is that important.
I think what is going on in Syria is important.

reply to post by Xcathdra


goo.gl...

Iran is doing ok for a small country.

I wonder why America wants to go around and pick fights with everyone? And the Brits.

People can't just live in peace I guess. Well anyway, since America is now murdering people with drones from the air all over the place, soon the small stealth models will be headed to America from all corners of the globe.

A little bit of plastic explosives and a quadcopter. Even a dunce could do that with the new open source software available and tons of suppliers for those things and they even can be programmed to fly by themselves.

Nice future for your children you have created.

And won't the billionaires be having fun! Killing each other with little drones. They won't be able to go on their yachts or play golf, the skies will be filled with them.

Then you will be happy. You can murder each other from your sofas for laughs. You know you want to.

Originally posted by Rocketman7
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

goo.gl...

Iran is doing ok for a small country.

I wonder why America wants to go around and pick fights with everyone? And the Brits.

People can't just live in peace I guess. Well anyway, since America is now murdering people with drones from the air all over the place, soon the small stealth models will be headed to America from all corners of the globe.

A little bit of plastic explosives and a quadcopter. Even a dunce could do that with the new open source software available and tons of suppliers for those things and they even can be programmed to fly by themselves.

Nice future for your children you have created.

And won't the billionaires be having fun! Killing each other with little drones. They won't be able to go on their yachts or play golf, the skies will be filled with them.

Then you will be happy. You can murder each other from your sofas for laughs. You know you want to.

edit on 7-7-2012 by Rocketman7 because: (no reason given)

USA government is not the real decider. it is enslaved. for example why do some of their politicians say the word new world order. this world order is or was completely on behalf of USA.
yes they are misusing USA.

Originally posted by Rocketman7
Iran is doing ok for a small country.

The government of Iran doesn't agree as the sanctions are taking its toll.

Originally posted by Rocketman7
I wonder why America wants to go around and pick fights with everyone? And the Brits.

Good question.. We should add those to the question of why Iran wants to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth, constantly?

Originally posted by Rocketman7
People can't just live in peace I guess. Well anyway, since America is now murdering people with drones from the air all over the place, soon the small stealth models will be headed to America from all corners of the globe.

Lol I love it when you guys come back with the grandiose claims. As for living in peace I refer you again to Iran and there every day cult of death to America / Israel / West. As for murdering people please tell me you are not trying to claim the moral highground for the top turbins amd the cowards in Gaza who use civilians as their human shields.

Originally posted by Rocketman7
A little bit of plastic explosives and a quadcopter. Even a dunce could do that with the new open source software available and tons of suppliers for those things and they even can be programmed to fly by themselves.

Yet Iran chose a nuclear program, threatens Israel every day and is promising to shut the straights down. As I said in another thread the Iranians are the star trek equivelant of the Pakleds.

Originally posted by Rocketman7
Nice future for your children you have created.

We arent the ones blowing our children up in the name of Allah.

Originally posted by Rocketman7
And won't the billionaires be having fun! Killing each other with little drones. They won't be able to go on their yachts or play golf, the skies will be filled with them.

Much better to drag innocent people into the streets and publicly execute them because they dont agree with the Iranian government. Your argument is sounding more like wealth envy and less like an argument supported by facts. You should rethink that position.

Originally posted by Rocketman7
Then you will be happy. You can murder each other from your sofas for laughs. You know you want to.

edit on 7-7-2012 by Rocketman7 because: (no reason given)

Again your attempt to claim the moral highground by ignoring the atrocities the Iranian regime commits in the name of Allah is humorous.

You should check with those Iranians who were executed because they are gay.. Make sure you speak with the children under 17 the Iranian government has killed while listing their age as over 18. Make sure you check with those who decided Islam was not for them and wanted to convert and worship freely, who were / are being executed.

Your arguments are just as humorous as the Iranian governments justifications. How about you check to see how many Muslims have been killed by their fellow Muslims?

You weant to hold the Us accountible - I have no issues with that. Thinking you can do that without the same scrutiny on your side of the fence is naive.

Originally posted by maes9
USA government is not the real decider. it is enslaved. for example why do some of their politicians say the word new world order. this world order is or was completely on behalf of USA.
yes they are misusing USA.

Im sorry how the the Iranian government respond when the Iranian people got screwed out of an election and protested?

The only ones who are enslaved are those who are subject to "Allahs will" by Iranian government proxy.

Quit tying to claim the moral high ground... Its as rediculous as what comes out of Tehran.

As I stated before...

Iran says it has plan to close Strait of Hormuz

TEHRAN, Iran – Iran will block the strategic Strait of Hormuz at the mouth of the Persian Gulf, the passageway through which a fifth of the world's oil flows, if its interests are seriously threatened, a senior Iranian military commander said Saturday.

"We do have a plan to close the Strait of Hormuz," state media quoted Gen. Hasan Firouzabadi as saying Saturday. "A Shiite nation (Iran) acts reasonably and would not approve interruption of a waterway ... unless our interests are seriously threatened," Press TV quoted him as saying.

The comments by Firouzabadi, the chairman of Iran's Joint Chiefs of Staff, come days after the European Union enforced a total oil embargo against Iran for its refusal to halt its uranium enrichment program.


Read more: www.foxnews.com...

They are backing away from their previous threats.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by maes9
USA government is not the real decider. it is enslaved. for example why do some of their politicians say the word new world order. this world order is or was completely on behalf of USA.
yes they are misusing USA.

Im sorry how the the Iranian government respond when the Iranian people got screwed out of an election and protested?

The only ones who are enslaved are those who are subject to "Allahs will" by Iranian government proxy.

Quit tying to claim the moral high ground... Its as rediculous as what comes out of Tehran.

edit on 7-7-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

well maybe some people were deceived by western media and their lies about the election but when they realized the truth, that was iranian people that ended everything not the government. government and the regime is nothing without Iranian people. well you want I to confess our problems ok you are right. and if there were no problems improvement would mean nothing. and what western governments always are misunderstanding is that if Iranian people complain, it is not because they are regretful from their revolution it is because they expect the regime and governments to really move on the revolution desires and Khomeni's views.
if it were not because of this peoples' will how could this regime and government conquest the sanctions and harassments and wars for more than 30 years!
and about God's will.
Quran says:"""surely Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition"""
this is what Khomeini called it the power of nations. if we sit and pray that God comes and corrects everything it is a dream. if it had been so, our revolution would have not taken place.
many Iranins are living in USA because this country has many goodnesses. but your politicians are firing everything everywhere to shape their new world order that evidences show that it is not even on behalf of USA.
you also had a revolution to be independent from UK empire, you know what independency means.

Originally posted by maes9
well maybe some people were deceived by western media and their lies about the election but when they realized the truth, that was iranian people that ended everything not the government. government and the regime is nothing without Iranian people.

I would love to see news reports from Iran however the government doesnt allow independent media. They blocked the internet as well as twitter - for ALL Iranians. If the Iranian people "resolved" the situation, then why the need to prohibit news reporting, independent thought and the ability for the Iranian people to challenge their government? If the people are that loyal and supporting then why are foreign media outlets restricted?

If the Iranian people are as powerful as you claim then why do the ruling mullahs have final say on who can and cannot run for office?

Originally posted by maes9
well you want I to confess our problems ok you are right. and if there were no problems improvement would mean nothing. and what western governments always are misunderstanding is that if Iranian people complain, it is not because they are regretful from their revolution it is because they expect the regime and governments to really move on the revolution desires and Khomeni's views.

Is that why a large chunk of the Iranian population is at odds with the Iranian government for embarking on actions that contradict what the Iranian government promised them?

The entire population of Iran is not Muslim so im not entirely sure how the revolution desires and accepts Khomenis rule. Also, you just got done stating the Iranian people are in control, yet you just elevated Khomeni above the people. Khomeni was not elected by the people which again suppoorts the opposite position you just made about the Iranian people.

Originally posted by maes9
if it were not because of this peoples' will how could this regime and government conquest the sanctions and harassments and wars for more than 30 years!

Because sanctions on Iranian oil are about a year old. Aside from that Iran and the rest of the world can do business as they see fit, just as the US sees fit not to do business with Cuba. So they have not really survived anything over the last 30 years.

Originally posted by maes9
and about God's will.
Quran says:"""surely Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition"""
this is what Khomeini called it the power of nations. if we sit and pray that God comes and corrects everything it is a dream. if it had been so, our revolution would have not taken place.

And non Muslims cannot be forced to join Islam as it must be a free choice... Again not all Iranian citizens are muslim so are the actions of the Iranian government representative only of the population who are not only Muslim but loyal to the Iranian government?

Originally posted by maes9
many Iranins are living in USA because this country has many goodnesses. but your politicians are firing everything everywhere to shape their new world order that evidences show that it is not even on behalf of USA

As opposed to the Iranain government wanting to eliminate Israel every other day. Calling for death to American and Israel? The Iranian government have their own version of the supposed "nwo" so that argument is baseless. Iranian politicians are the ones threatening to close the straights, not the US or Israel.

Originally posted by maes9
you also had a revolution to be independent from UK empire, you know what independency means.

I do.. We fought the British because of the actions of the British crown towards the colonies. Taxation with no representation, controlling every facet of the economy via royal decree. The population of the colonies had enough when it was determined the Crown was not going to make changes.

That resulted in arms being taken up against the crown. A picture we see now taking place in the Middle East, including Iran.

reply to post by maes9


Are you a muslim or Iranian ,Sir?

reply to post by Xcathdra


1- well I remember 10 years ago when they decided to ban the pornography sites. nothing else. but after the colored revolution, when Clinton itself confessed that they had postponed the maintenance of Twiter to direct the protests then all of them got filtered. as well as some medias. and now they are controlling their own social sites to postpone the wallstreet uprising!
I confess that it is annoying but we can still reach them through limited VPN.
2-well about nations' power I did not mean just Iranians. you can see this power in Egypt when Mubarak got overthrown. It is hard but achievable. governments are nothing without their nations.
3-and your statements about mullahs. this is another misunderstanding. me and you are from different culture and ideologies I can not explain some concepts in brief and simply. I know that Europe has experienced medieval and when someone speaks about combining religion and politics they remember that darkness. but Islam is differnet and especially the shie belief is completely a political religion and it has it's own tools for a government.
but about the political system in Iran, well mullahs can not decide. people vote for mullahs to enter a council and that council elects only one mullah to become a leader. that mullah should have some special charactristics. even a sin will completely cause to put him aside! the main purpose of this is to prevent presidency dictatorship (as you can see in arab countries) and this was the theory of Khomeini by the name Velayate_Faghih. it is rooted from shie believes. 90% of Iran is muslim and 80% of it is shie meanwhile all of minorities have their own members in the council and parlement. the president and parlement members are elected directly by peoples' votes. all the duties are specified in the constitution.
4-just after the revolution the kind of regime was elected by 90% votes of people as "Islamic Republic"
5-no one forced non muslims to join Islam or anything. christian and jews are living with us here and have their own members in parlement.
6-just oil sanctions are new and will fail and USA and Israel will never attack Iran and Iran will never close the strait.
7-the international zhionism is one of main problems of humanity. and UK that stupidly made the false country Israel is responsible of it. they have waged war against us by terrorism and threats and Iran is responding to them. more over a fair election that all palestinan (christian jews and muslims) take part in it will solve the problem.
8-well you mean revolutions will get altered, true but ours is young and we are hopeful.

Originally posted by maes9
1- well I remember 10 years ago when they decided to ban the pornography sites. nothing else. but after the colored revolution, when Clinton itself confessed that they had postponed the maintenance of Twiter to direct the protests then all of them got filtered. as well as some medias. and now they are controlling their own social sites to postpone the wallstreet uprising!

10 years ago President Bush was in office, not Clinton (either of them). Secondly the attempt to ban pornography in the US failed with the case against Larry Flint, when it because a 1st amendment issue. So im not entirely sure what you are talking about.

Originally posted by maes9
I confess that it is annoying but we can still reach them through limited VPN.

If the people of Iran, as you stated before, are so loyal why does the Iranian government need to limit those services at all?

Originally posted by maes9
2-well about nations' power I did not mean just Iranians. you can see this power in Egypt when Mubarak got overthrown. It is hard but achievable. governments are nothing without their nations.

We see the same occuring in syria and we saw the same in Iran in the 2009 elections. Iran was more successful in killing their citizens to remain in power where Assad is not so lucky.

Originally posted by maes9
3-and your statements about mullahs. this is another misunderstanding. me and you are from different culture and ideologies I can not explain some concepts in brief and simply. I know that Europe has experienced medieval and when someone speaks about combining religion and politics they remember that darkness. but Islam is differnet and especially the shie belief is completely a political religion and it has it's own tools for a government.

Islam is different than other religions in that is goes beyond just spirituality. It permeates all facets from spirituality, to law and order, to government, up to what people do in the privacy of their own homes. I dont have an issue with a religion telling a person they have to grow a long beard. I have issues when failure to comply becomes a crime against the state resulting in punishment / death.

Originally posted by maes9
but about the political system in Iran, well mullahs can not decide. people vote for mullahs to enter a council and that council elects only one mullah to become a leader. that mullah should have some special charactristics. even a sin will completely cause to put him aside! the main purpose of this is to prevent presidency dictatorship (as you can see in arab countries) and this was the theory of Khomeini by the name Velayate_Faghih. it is rooted from shie believes. 90% of Iran is muslim and 80% of it is shie meanwhile all of minorities have their own members in the council and parlement. the president and parlement members are elected directly by peoples' votes. all the duties are specified in the constitution.

Im sorry can you tell me when the Ayatollah who is currently in the top position was elected by the people to that position? When the Ayatollah decides who can and cannot run for President, they are the dictatorship, not the office of the PResident.

Also, while the parliment is elected by the people, as is the President, the top religious council, which contains the ayatollah, can override anything they do. So while the illusion of a democratic process is there, its anything but.

Originally posted by maes9
4-just after the revolution the kind of regime was elected by 90% votes of people as "Islamic Republic"

You should check your facts because you are way off.

Originally posted by maes9
5-no one forced non muslims to join Islam or anything. christian and jews are living with us here and have their own members in parlement.

Who are subject to Islamic / sharia law. Has Iran executed the Christian Pastor yet? Or is he still on death row? You know he has another court appearence right? He is being charged with crimes against the state. Easier to murder him with that conviction than because they got it wrong on the religious charge they tried first.

Originally posted by maes9
6-just oil sanctions are new and will fail and USA and Israel will never attack Iran and Iran will never close the strait.

And if you looked at the whole picture you would see the sanctions are working as Iran has complained about the sanctions digging into their monetary resources, a massive increase in inflation and an inability to pay for their imports from other countries.

with President Obama in office I dont think we will attack either. Israel on the other hand, coupled with Obamas inability to grow a set, will attack when they feel their backs against the wall.

Originally posted by maes9
7-the international zhionism is one of main problems of humanity. and UK that stupidly made the false country Israel is responsible of it. they have waged war against us by terrorism and threats and Iran is responding to them. more over a fair election that all palestinan (christian jews and muslims) take part in it will solve the problem.

God this argument is so stupid and perpetrated by the ignorant its not even funny. If you guys are going to argue about Israel then how about we go back to the last controller? that would be the Ottoman Empire by the way. Quit blaming Israel because of a 9th century mindset that is holding arab countries back.

The issues in the Middle East stem from the ignorance of Arab countries and their moronic leaders. You want to see a Palestinian state? Quit attacking Israeli civilians. The Palestinian problem / existence of Israel is used as an excuse by groups whose sole intent is to destroy Israel. They could care less about a Palestinan State. If they did Arab government would not have constantly interfered with its creation.

As far as Iran and Syrias stance towards Israel and their claims of ffriendship... Why dont you ask either government why they dont recognize the existence of Israel?

Originally posted by maes9
8-well you mean revolutions will get altered, true but ours is young and we are hopeful.

The best thing for the Iranian people would be to not only throw out their government, but the religious leaders as well (for different reasons). The Persian history is rich with many contributions to the world from education to mathmatics to the game of Chess (contrary to the claims it started in India - The end move is called Sha Mat - Checkmate in English).

The government and the interference of religion combined are keeping the Iranian people (along with arab countries) stuck in the 9th century. Any type of forward movement is somehow seen as an affront to Allah or a corruption by non Islamic ideals.

Has it ever occured to you that those "reasons" are nothing but excuses in order to keep the people in line? Those who cotnrol the information can control the population. That doctrine also extends to the military as well where having more info than your enemy gives you the advantage.

If Iran was treuly as free and great as people claim, why all the restrictions? Why the arrests with no due process? Why the executions with no trials? Why does the government control any and all information wtihin the country?

The governments in the Middle East are afraid of the west solely because the information from the West makes it to their citizens. When you have 2 conflicting pieces of information people tend to want to find out why there is a difference. That becomes problematic when their own government tells the the West is lying yet for some strange reasons doesnt allow their people to confirm that for themselves.

Blame the west, blame the US, blame Israel all you want but in the end the governments of Syria and Iran will end up like Libya and Egypt.

reply to post by Xcathdra


excuse me for wrong statements this is what I meant:
"""well I remember 10 years ago when Iran decided to ban the pornography sites. nothing else. but after the colored revolution,(4 years ago) when Hillary Clinton Secretary of State of Obama itself confessed that they had postponed the maintenance of Twiter to direct the protests, then all of them got filtered by Iran. as well as some medias. and now USA is controlling their own social sites to postpone the wallstreet uprising"""

well, this is exactly the problem. no one in this world wants USA to decide for him. even oppressed Syrian people that are victims of superpowers backed terrorism.
controlling over middle east is the illusion of USA it will never succeed without Iran and Iran will never betray the middle-eastern people.

Originally posted by maes9
excuse me for wrong statements this is what I meant:
"""well I remember 10 years ago when Iran decided to ban the pornography sites. nothing else. but after the colored revolution,(4 years ago) when Hillary Clinton Secretary of State of Obama itself confessed that they had postponed the maintenance of Twiter to direct the protests, then all of them got filtered by Iran. as well as some medias. and now USA is controlling their own social sites to postpone the wallstreet uprising"""

Neither Obama nor Hillary forced twitter to cancel its maintenance. Twitter is a private company and is not answerable to the government in this fashion (or really any for that matter). The State Department urged Twitter to hold off so they can continue getting accounts from inside Syria.

Twitter is under no obligations to comply.

The US government does not control social networking sites. They are privately owned (poublicly traded). As for the wallstreet uprising im not sure what you are talking about? Occupy Wall Street is still active and its stil reported in the media that they are. Most recently they were in Massachusetts doing their thing.

Originally posted by maes9
well, this is exactly the problem. no one in this world wants USA to decide for him. even oppressed Syrian people that are victims of superpowers backed terrorism.

Then why are their no US troops in Syria and why are their Iranian troops in Syria? You guys have absolutely no faith in the Arab people when it comes to self determination. What is it with you and the others constantly laying blame on the US? I expect Assad and Ahmadenijad to do that, as well as Hugo Chavez, who find it easier to change the domestic channel when things go back to the 24 hour blame the West / US / Isral channel?

The Syrian people are signaling to Assad their intent, and Assad in return is slaughtering them in the streets. Thats done by the Assad government, not the US?

Also, based on your position above what is your position on Syria and Iran financing / funding / supplying Hamas and Hezzbullah to terrorize Israel?

You are either in for a penny in for a pound or your not.

Originally posted by maes9
controlling over middle east is the illusion of USA it will never succeed without Iran and Iran will never betray the middle-eastern people.

We dont control anything in the Middle East. You and others seem to ignore the fact Arab countries work with the US. Not only have they allowed the US in, they have also asked us to leave or redeploy, and we have complied.

Again you blame the US while ignoring the invitation / agreement by Arab governments and the US for military access.

You have Russian presence in Syria...
You have Iranian military units in Syria..
For the longest time you had Syrian occupation of Lebanon...

The US supports and has alliance / agreements with some Middle East countries, just like Russia and China. So its ok for you to come at the US and blame them for all the worlds woes yet you are ok with Russia and IRan doing the very thing you blame the US of doing.

Or are countries not allowed to align with whatever nation they wish?