French Socialists Approve 75% Tax Rate for High Earners

reply to post by Riposte


I don't necessarily want increased spending. I want BALANCED spending and no more corporate wars or continous growth of the military-industrial complex. No more bribes and I want government to govern everything and everyone as fair as possible.

I would also prefer socialism aka the soveriegn citizens owning and operating the means of production.

And yes the billionares are protecting the trillionares, while the millionares are protecting the billionares. They are all in on it together to demonise the left for protection and greed. The rich create class conflict, not the poor seeking it.

If you lack common sense that is your problem. Deal with it!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


and there you have it, government controlling everyone and everything (forget the fair thing, not going to happen)

Does that sound like something you want? Well, I wouldn't mind so long as I am one of the ones at the top.

reply to post by FlyersFan


"Atlas shrug"? Atlas is about to sh$t his pants, OK, because French banks are levered heavily in Italy who as we all know is about to ask for a bailout which will cause the French banks to go insolvent and require the French people to bail out the banks. The problem is that the bank debt is greater than the French GDP so Atlas will sh$t his pants, slip in his own poop and as the brit's say the whole thing goes arse over tip, total bloody right off. The whole system as we say in Amerika is F.U.B.A.R. Then what's gonna happen to the rest of Europe? Amerika? As the late, great George Carlin would say, "when your born on this planet your given a ticket to the freak show, if you where born in America you got a front row seat". Relax. Don't panic. And for Chrissakes don't fear, the good Aliens have got it all under control. PEACE. :

Originally posted by nuclear12346
reply to post by sasquatch5100

 

If you look back further, taxes were much higher yet we had some of the most explosive growth in our country's history.

Right, but we had DEDUCTIONS to go along with those higher tax rates. Deals were done over the years to lower tax rates in exchange for losing the deductions. Now you cannot deduct credit card interest, pretty much no medical expenses, or any household expenses but tax rates are going up. So now rates will skyrocket, but most deductions are gone- AND those wacky liberals want to eliminate the last common man deduction- home mortgage interest! But hey, liberals care about the little guy, right?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
The flip side of the coin is that the majority of trades in the market are not investment-driven, but pure speculation. This is in Chapter 1 of most books on finance. I thought you knew that. So instead of heroic people backing up R&D of things like iPhone with their hard-earned money, more often than not you have an extremely sophisticated multiplayer online universe, where the best gamer wins. How's that productive, beats me.

Speculation is the selling of risk. The speculator gets paid for assuming the risk that a more patient investor is too nervous to accept.

Speculators are simply people who are willing to bet against the majority. If you own a stock whose price is collapsing, who in their right mind would buy it off of you? Simple--a speculator. Speculators are the individuals that to the work of actually preventing market collapses.

Congress loves to blame "speculators," for jacking up prices. But all that means is that speculators are willing to risk their money that prices ARE going up anyway. Again, they get blamed for being right. But every day, speculators lose money when they turn out to be wrong--and no one is sympathetic when they provide the liquidity that keeps prices from swinging too wildly.

The most recent complaints in the US were about gasoline speculators. But the fact is, NYMEX would not permit a genuine futures market in gasoline, so investors used crude as a proxy for the gasoline market. Lots of speculators bought crude futures, because they knew that transport companies would need a hedge against higher prices, and would turn to crude oil futures when forbidden to buy more gasoline calls. But that wouldn't have happened if the market controllers at NYMEX and the SEC had actually permitted a free market in gasoline. Once they did, we quit having to hear about evil speculators (and the price of gas actually went down, once speculators could legally assume risk for businesses trying to hedge their gas costs.).

However disliked, speculators provide a service by taking the unpopular "other side" in a market transaction.

See, there has to be a buyer for every seller, and vice versa. And the only person who will bet against the market during a crisis is, by definition, a .... speculator.

When your pension fund manager gets scared and dumps its shares of GM, someone has to be around to buy those shares, to take the other side of the transaction. Speculators do that. They provide liquidity. And you cannot have a genuine market without liquidity. Its just that the government hates the price of liquidity---allowing speculators to get paid when they happen to be right.

See the whole problem starts when someone (you or I) sits in the judgment seat and proclaims one market participant to be "an investor" and someone else to be "a speculator." The only difference is that a speculator finds out very quickly if they are right or wrong.

But speculators perform a critical service---market liquidity (taking risks that others pay them for). Without them, every down day would become a panic. And every up day would cause a bubble until there was a collapse.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Slavery to the state. Atlas will shrug in France.

France Raises Taxes on Wealthy, Companies to Narrow Budget Gap

France’s two-week-old Socialist government unveiled 7.2 billion euros ($9 billion) of tax increases to meet deficit-reduction goals and avoid bond-market punishment.

The 2012 measures, approved at a Cabinet meeting today, presage even larger tax increases and spending cuts next year in an economy that’s barely expanding.

The largest new levy will be a one-time surcharge on wealthy individuals’ assets to raise 2.3 billion euros. Another 898 million euros will be reaped by ending a payroll-tax holiday. Other steps include surcharges for oil and financial companies, each raising an additional 550 million euros, and a levy on dividends and stock options.

Check it out ... pure insanity ..

Among the measures that will be in the 2013 budget will be a 75-percent tax rate for income of more than 1 million euros.

So if you dare to make a lot of money and/or be productive ... the French government will steal 75% of your earnings. Slavery to the State. Atlas will shrug in France.

edit on 7/4/2012 by FlyersFan because: fixed quote

Best news i've read for a while, absolutely amazed that you think it's "insane", i think it's fantastic

reply to post by leelo


Well you can re-read my posts.

From my point of view the debate is biased for many reasons : first, most of the people here seem to mix up french socialism (which is in fact our way to name what you would call democrats) and historical socialism (and even sometimes communism for the less educated).
Same goes for liberalism and liberals, in the USA it seems to mean "left wing" while in France it is more affiliated with the right wing/republicans (mostly on an economical point of view where the government doesn't mess with the economy, ie : no welfare, medicare, social security, etc.)

Thus they are reacting as if we're going to be a new USSR although the whole plan has still to be approved and voted. I read some french papers today and even the socialists were talking about modifications and ways to apply the tax whithout crippling the economy. The title is misleading and people are talking about something that isn't conveyed correctly in the american medias ('cause yeah, in France laws aren't made on the spot by the president and his friends after diner, this isn't 1230 anymore).

Secondly : they are still people having difficulties understanding how the tax system works in France.
You don't pay 25%, 50% or 75% of your overall income per year ; from x to xx euros you'll have to pay x% then from xx to xxx euros you'll have to pay xx%, in the end you add up every % of every part of your yearly salary and you'll have your overall tax. It's quite a bother to calculate but I wrote the exact numbers and a clearer explanation in my first post.

I'd be intersting to know how much the average joe in the USA earns p/y, how much he spends in taxes/medicare/school/social security/etc. compared to the french average joe who pays his taxes and doesn't have to pay (or way less) for school, social security and such. If the numbers I see are real, there is no or almost no differences.

About the whole thing, tbh I don't really care, it concerns something like 2% of the population or even less, it's a political move and it's subject to changes. We're in a worldwide financial crisis and every country has to find way get money, the US did the same many times, most of the countries around us did the same when facing the same kind of problems plus our economy is based mostly on small/medium companies whose owners don't earn 1M euros per year, those who do are already living in Switzerland or Monaco so it won't change the face of the country.
This isn't a redistribution of health, there will not be a sudden huge rise in the minimum wage or whatever, it is to help the government to pay its debts, I don't know why people assumed that.

This thing in France is happening for a reason, to cripple the country and intentionally turn it into a poverty stricken nation. Once everyone is poor they will be easier to complete the conversion to Islam. After all, everyone knows Islam is the religion that takes advantage of the poor.

You should take your pills, this is plain stupid.

There's a lot of jealousy by people on here who think the so called rich should be taxed to death just because they have more money than them,it works two ways people.A large amount of people making this money have created jobs by starting their own companies and have the fortitude and self belief to do what a bunch of weed smoking lazy video game playing couch potatoes and living room philosophers simply can't be arsed to do.
Granted-Wealth should be spread in such a way that nobody starves,everybody gets a grade A education and top health care.
But simply there are far too many people in this world that are bone idol,indolent and are anti rich because they are not rich.If society was based on these type of people we'd still be preindustrial.Not everybody got rich by theft.Fair play to them that rose from the gutter and strove to be something better in life.
I've seen jealousy in my place of work you wouldn't believe because somebody makes more than them,i look at them like they are suffering from a sickness as most have the chance to do the same but are let down by their lazy complaining attitudes and it's themselves that hold themselves back.

reply to post by FlyersFan

France Raises Taxes on Wealthy, Companies to Narrow Budget Gap

and all those greedy cochon de merde
should be grateful

during the revolution, they would have lost everything,
including their heads

reply to post by votan

The reason why the "rich" need to be taxed more is not because they work "harder" or are more "productive" it is because they know how to take from everyone else for themselves.

they are masters at getting rich
using other peoples money

consider all the things that are making millions and billions, for a select few, that were originally paid for with the peoples taxes
like the internet

big oil, nuclear power, and big agribusiness always get the biggest slice
when it comes to government handouts and subsidies

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

France Raises Taxes on Wealthy, Companies to Narrow Budget Gap

and all those greedy cochon de merde
should be grateful

during the revolution, they would have lost everything,
including their heads

You do realize that this will just suck the blood out of the middle class, (which is the goal)
Uneducated people always make the claim that all left wingers or socialists fight for the middle and lower class. History proves otherwise.
The super rich aren't going to give you money, so you guys will get upset and steal it from the middle class. Thats exactly what's happening all around the world.
Fake revolution of suckers. The big dogs have you guys on a chain

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
We really should take a lesson from the French on this one. The wealthy and corporations have had the wealth redistributed to them for far too long. It's time for all of us to benefit from the work done in this country instead of the elite benefiting while the worker is uncompensated.

Over the last 30 years, CEO Pay Grew 127 Times Faster than Workers' Pay

That's purposeful redistribution of wealth! From the people to the CEOs and wealthy!

CEO pay spiked 725 percent between 1978 and 2011, while worker pay rose just 5.7 percent, according to a study by the Economic Policy Institute released on Wednesday.

I don't care how it happened or which party was in power during what time. The facts speak for themselves.

I dont believe in money or any form of scarsity systems, only abundance and freedom and volunteering.

But your post is right on!

And so the France death watch begins.

To the French....Dont worry, just like a drug addict needs to hit rock bottom before the can begin to recover a debt addict needs to do the same. This will only help you get there quicker so you can almost look at it as a positive.

Question is...Wheres rock bottom for France? Ho long will it be before you will admit you were wrong?

Originally posted by tovenar

Originally posted by buddhasystem
The flip side of the coin is that the majority of trades in the market are not investment-driven, but pure speculation. This is in Chapter 1 of most books on finance. I thought you knew that. So instead of heroic people backing up R&D of things like iPhone with their hard-earned money, more often than not you have an extremely sophisticated multiplayer online universe, where the best gamer wins. How's that productive, beats me.

Speculation is the selling of risk. The speculator gets paid for assuming the risk that a more patient investor is too nervous to accept.

Thanks for illustrating my point. You see, you started out saying that investors are supporting things like iPad R&D and things of that nature. In reality, you admit that a lot of stock market is a gamble, so we are really talking gambling here, as they say "greed and fear".

If you own a stock whose price is collapsing, who in their right mind would buy it off of you? Simple--a speculator. Speculators are the individuals that to the work of actually preventing market collapses.

Wait, you describe a situation when the price is already way down. Sure, some will bet on the upside. You are already selling cheap. Even used furniture has it's price, you know. I doubt that in general speculation has a net stabilizing effect on the market, and pretty much convinced it's the opposite. Ever heard of sell-off, when the price of a stock collapses? That's the handiwork of speculators.

reply to post by FlyersFan


OP you're so deeply WRONG. Where were during the last 10 years or so... what about governments eating in the hands of global bankers?

So when it's about making the ultra-rich pay, it's bad, but when it's working class people who get taxed and foreclosed of their homes, it's alright!

I couldn't care less about the French socialists...and I don't believe they are what they pretend to be, but if any government has got the guts to actually tax the major corporate PROFITEERS instead of doing their every bidding, that's powerful.

"Atlas shrugged"? Ayn Rand was a joke. She never got peer-reviewed and today she'd be the equivalent of Ann Coulter.

Wanna see an "atlas"? Look at the guys and girls who wake up at 6 in the morning to work their asses off 8-12 hours a day for a DECENT living. Look especially at the people who stand by their beliefs in the face of oppression, instead of "going with the flow".

You should start to reach Nietzsche instead of phony philosophers with questionable agendas.

Who do you people think they're going to tax when the rich become poor? The poor! And how is it the richs fault that the middle class doesn't know how to spend money wisely? It's not there fault that the middle class doesn't know how to pay there bills instead of buying crap they don't need.(And no i'm NOT rich)

Originally posted by Echtelion
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

OP you're so deeply WRONG. Where were during the last 10 years or so... what about governments eating in the hands of global bankers?

So when it's about making the ultra-rich pay, it's bad, but when it's working class people who get taxed and foreclosed of their homes, it's alright!

I couldn't care less about the French socialists...and I don't believe they are what they pretend to be, but if any government has got the guts to actually tax the major corporate PROFITEERS instead of doing their every bidding, that's powerful.

"Atlas shrugged"? Ayn Rand was a joke. She never got peer-reviewed and today she'd be the equivalent of Ann Coulter.

Wanna see an "atlas"? Look at the guys and girls who wake up at 6 in the morning to work their asses off 8-12 hours a day for a DECENT living. Look especially at the people who stand by their beliefs in the face of oppression, instead of "going with the flow".

You should start to reach Nietzsche instead of phony philosophers with questionable agendas.

edit on 5/7/12 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)

The thing is, the ultra rich don't need to work and they're a relatively small group so taxing them would be fruitless and push them away.
The real people who are going to suffer from this are small business and lower class to upper middle class who are essentially the exoskeleton of western society.
What are you guys going to do when there is no money left to steal?

Originally posted by Ancient Champion
Who do you people think they're going to tax when the rich become poor? The poor! And how is it the richs fault that the middle class doesn't know how to spend money wisely? It's not there fault that the middle class doesn't know how to pay there bills instead of buying crap they don't need.(And no i'm NOT rich)

Thats a load of crap imo but I live here in Canada where the housing bubble didn't hit as hard as in your country.
The middle class is struggling because of taxes and regulations, not spending habits.
They have tightened their belt fiscally, but the unions and gov't haven't at all.
Add inflation to the mix and it's a powderkeg.
I'm so glad we didn't have as many bailouts here during the 1st recession

You can be fed anything, and taught it tastes good. Evidently.....

Seeing so many people, without SUBSTANTIAL money of their own, defending the tax % on the countries richest billionaires, tells you how bad things are. Its like people ratting out robin hood, for trying to help them. Its LONG past time they paid a fair share. And a one time surtax, isnt even coming close to what is necc to inact real long standing change.

Unfortunately, until the internet is respected a little more, we will continue to base our politics in $$$ financial battles.. I think 10 years from now, $$$ will be illiminated as candidates are forced into next world online marketing, and campaigning. You cannot expect the reforms to be long standing, and severe enough to change anything, if any of the people who enact it, force themselves out of their positions.

Right step in the right direction, but this will be used as a sticker shock rhettoric complaint to the obama team.. no doubt Meh Romney will use this against Obamas so called socialist tactics

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by nuclear12346
How dare they ask for a small % back.

75% isn't a 'small percent'

Originally posted by The Sword
Why do you always defend people with money?

Why do you always try to take money from people who have more?
That's called THEFT.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
welcome to the US, french rich people
please spend some money while you are here

Exactly. People will take their money and their business and leave. Either that, or they won't bother to earn it anymore. Why should they? It's just going to be stolen from them.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Who they gonna tax when all the rich people are gone?

There ya' go. Then people will have to actually make their own money instead of stealing everyone else's.


reply to post by Ookie

 

:shk: blah blah blah ... wrong.
I do not condone stealing from people simply because they have earned more than I have.
I am not a parasite or a looter.

edit on 7/4/2012 by FlyersFan because: fixed quote

Dear FF,
Actually Dear you're a bit off base here and over-reacting, not the first time may I add. If taxation for the rich at 75% is theft, then taxation for the poor at 20% is also theft. Theft is theft. You're just complaining about a very specific part of it, therefore your ability to be unbiased must be questionned. I fully agree with The Sword on this one. Perhaps you are a higher wage earner, I don't know or care, but you can't complain about 75% taxation for the rich while saying nothing about taxation as a whole.

Now as to my thoughts on this issue, I think Hollande is a joke and hasn't really got a clue what he's doing. France is in turmoil and sadly swings from left to right like a pendulum. It's always been the case and will always be the case. The ramifications are large and wide spread. His antics could potentially affect the financial stability on a global scale because, simply put, if he causes more waves in the already highly problematic Euro boat, all moneys will start to feel the ripples.

75% taxation for people who regularly avoid taxation completely is, I don't think, that insane an idea. The super rich should be paying their "fare share" and have, historically, not done so. Why should the super wealthy squeeze the working man and woman year after year with CEO bonuses and banker bonuses sky rocketing whilst normal people do not even get inflatory increases?

Defending the super rich in this current climate is suicide FF. I sure hope you realise that. The global revolution is coming, look at Iceland for a prime example of what the power of the people can achieve.

T