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Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
AFAIK HAARP generates radio waves, not electric current.
Yes but they're using the HF to heat/agitate the ionosphere.
Chapman was perhaps the most influential scientist in the field of cosmical geophysics in the period
1920-1960, and was the creator of a mathematically elegant theory for ionospheric current systems
and magnetic storms
Since Chapman considered his theory of magnetic storms and aurora to be one of his
most important achievements, he was anxious to suppress any knowledge of Birkeland's
theory
A small, but growing, group of scientists from the two communities have sensed this problem,
and since 1991 this group has organized four bi-annual workshops entitled "Interrelationship between
Plasma Experiments in Laboratory and Space" (IPELS). This workshop, very much in the spirit of
Kristian Birkeland, signals a hope for increased awareness of the necessity of an interdisciplinary
approach to all sciences that deal with matter in the ionized state.
Indeed - but that is still using radiowaves and not electric current to do so.
Although plasma physics emerged as an independent physical discipline as late as in the 1950's, the roots can be traced back to the nineteenth century, even to the time before the electron was discovered by J. J. Thomson in 1897. At that time one did not have a clear conception of the fourth state of matter, but a few great scientists developed through laboratory experiments in discharge tubes and geophysical observations fundamentally correct ideas about the plasma nature of the sun, the interplanetary space, and the solar terrestrial interaction.
In 1896 he performed experiments where cathode rays were attracted by a magnetic pole, and he could produce a glowing light in the vicinity of this pole reminiscent of the northern light (polar aurora) [l].
He used a varying terminology for describing the medium filling his discharge chambers and the interplanetary space. Expressions like luminous or rarefied gas, radiant matter, and the fourth state of matter were used at different occasions, where a modern writer would have used the word plasma.
Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
Indeed - but that is still using radiowaves and not electric current to do so.
The current is in the ionosphere. See the quotes from and link in my previous post.
Originally posted by luxordelphi
Currently magnetic north is at 85 degrees north latitude which means that aurora should not occur below 62 degrees north because the aurora happens, at the most, 23 degrees from the magnetic poles.
Produced by fast-moving particles from the Sun smashing into molecules in the upper atmosphere, the Aurora Borealis is normally thought of as something visible only above the Arctic Circle. Yet at times of high solar activity, they can be seen much further south: during the great solar storm of August and September 1859, the colours typical of aurorae were seen in Honolulu, just 21° north of the equator.
Historians have uncovered evidence suggesting that the southern hemisphere counterpart of the Northern Lights, the Aurora Australis, may have been witnessed even closer to the equator, with reports of the phenomenon being seen from Samoa in 1921, at a latitude of 13° south, and a disputed report from Singapore at just 8° south during the storm of 25 September 1909.
Except that's not true. There's no cut-off distance for the aurora - it's entirely dependent on the solar output, and during solar storms it can reach a long way south. It's also nothing new.
It was well known at the time that the aurora had a maximum occurrence zone close to 23' from the magnetic poles. but the exact shape of the auroral oval was not known.
July 26, 1990 | From Associated Press A newly repaired unmanned rocket blasted into space Wednesday with a satellite that will use chemicals to transform Earth's invisible magnetic field lines into brilliant bursts of color. The 143-foot Atlas rocket roared into a clear sky, and the satellite separated from the booster 28 minutes after launch, drawing applause at the control center.
July 25, 1990 | From Associated Press On the fourth try, a newly repaired Atlas rocket blasted off today with a satellite that will splash the sky with colorful cloud displays while illuminating Earth's usually invisible magnetic field.
Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Uncinus
Except that's not true. There's no cut-off distance for the aurora - it's entirely dependent on the solar output, and during solar storms it can reach a long way south. It's also nothing new.
Well of course - HAARP can trigger aurora further south than normal and huge solar flares/emissions can do it too. And that's exactly what's happening because while magnetic north flees further and further north, Aurora Borealis are seen further and further south.
Magnetic south is not tied to magnetic north in that just because magnetic north is at 85 degrees north, doesn't mean that magnetic south is at 85 degrees south - it could be much further north. Magnetic south is also not travelling at 40 miles a year like magnetic north is. Put up some information about it if you know. I'm in the northern hemisphere so I don't see Aurora Australis, the southern lights, so any information you have is welcome because HAARP is not there - it's in Alaska.
Yes it is, and it can only affact the aurora in Alask, and then only very slightly. There's zero evidence it can affect the aurora elsewhere.
March 14, 1989 Emergency agencies throughout the northern two-thirds of California received a spate of citizen telephone calls reporting flashing lights in the sky. Officials with the state Office of Emergency Services said people were seeing the aurora borealis, commonly known as the Northern Lights. Chuck Young, a warning controller for the OES, said that under normal circumstances the Northern Lights are seen only as far south as the Canadian border.
March 13, 1989 More large solar flares, each with the potential to disrupt radio transmissions and trigger aurora borealis, have erupted on the sun in the wake of an unusually large blast, researchers at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico said. A blast 36 times the size of Earth that occurred last Thursday on the sun's northeast quadrant was possibly the largest ever recorded, researchers said.
November 10, 1991 | From Associated Press One of the most spectacular displays of northern lights in years awed sky gazers from Ohio to Utah and as far south as Texas, where solar particles fueled curtains, ripples and clouds of night brightness.
November 16, 2004 The Northern Lights viewing zone extended as far south as Alabama last week when solar particles erupted from an extra-large sunspot and collided with atoms in Earth's upper atmosphere.
May 24, 2005 The night skies over southwestern Montana danced with bright red and green shades of the northern lights, or aurora borealis, as seen May 15, from past midnight to just before dawn. The light phenomenon was visible down to California and Arizona.
February 18, 2011 | By Mary Forgione, Los Angeles Times Daily Travel & Deal blogger Thanks to a powerful solar flare , the northern lights are on tour -- sort of. Locals and lucky travelers in Northern Ireland this week have seen the dazzling ribbons of color usually reserved for higher latitudes.
A sonic boom is the audible component of a shock wave in air. The term is commonly used to refer to the air shocks caused by the supersonic flight of military aircraft or passenger transports such as the Concorde (Mach 2.2, no longer flying) and the Space Shuttle (Mach 27). Sonic booms generate enormous amounts of sound energy, sounding much like an explosion, typically the shock front may approach 100,000,000 watts per square meter, and may exceed 200 decibels.
Q: Why are you interested in studying sonic booms in the ionosphere? One reason is that Mother Nature does it, so we study it. That's the most pure reason, I suppose. Another reason is that the plasma physics of that part of the atmosphere are unusual. It's a relatively cold plasma, and it's a molecular plasma unlike plasmas that you find in the sun, which are atomic plasmas. It's surrounded by neutral gas, so there's a lot of chemistry that goes on. It's also in a part of the sky that's very difficult to study because it's too high for balloons and aircraft, and too low for satellites. This is the part of the sky that ultimately burns up all the meteors, so instruments can't be there for very long. So remote sensing is the name of the game for getting long-term data for this part of the atmosphere.
A recording produced on Sept 9-10 2011 during a geomagnetic storm by using three microphones and a VLF antenna picked up twenty similar clap sounds. Some of them were close enough in order to be detected by all three microphones. The collected data allowed the estimation of the location of the sound source. The sound source was on the open sky.
The result shows that the sound source - at this particular case - was real and on the sky, not far away from the ground.
In separate events, mysterious booms shook residents of Alabama, Georgia, and Wisconsin. So far, government activities, earthquakes, and sonic booms are ruled out.
Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Uncinus
Yes it is, and it can only affact the aurora in Alask, and then only very slightly. There's zero evidence it can affect the aurora elsewhere.
You're misinformed or not informed. Some HAARP agitations have traveled quite a long ways. The unclassified part of this study here says that ELF generated by HAARP traveled 4400 km. (2700 miles) from Alaska to Midway Atoll. That's from 63 degrees north to 23 degrees north.
Can HAARP create an artificial aurora?
The natural aurora is created when very high energy particles emitted by the sun, reach the Earth's vicinity, are swept toward the Earth's magnetic poles, and collide with gas molecules existing in the upper atmosphere. The energy involved in this process is enormous but is entirely natural and it has been a normal event throughout Earth's history.
HAARP is so much weaker than these naturally occurring processes that it is incapable of producing the type of optical display observed during an aurora. However, weak and repeatable optical emissions have been observed using HAARP (and reported in the scientific literature) using very sensitive cameras.
So the largest blast ever recorded, 36 times the size of Earth, caused auroras down to northern CA.
during the great solar storm of August and September 1859, the colours typical of aurorae were seen in Honolulu, just 21° north of the equator.
But the ELF isn't what causes the artificial auroras, it's just a side effect. And the "auroras" created by HAARP are tiny, bare detectable.
HAARP is so much weaker than these naturally occurring processes that it is incapable of producing the type of optical display observed during an aurora. However, weak and repeatable optical emissions have been observed using HAARP (and reported in the scientific literature) using very sensitive cameras.
But since the facility ramped up to 3.6 megawatts - roughly three times more than a typical broadcast radio transmitter - it has created full-scale artificial auroras that are visible to the naked eye.
It's not the size of the blast, it's the direction it's pointing in. And why focus on the last ten years, when there's pre-ionospheric-heater data available.
Or was HAARP travelling back in time? What was going on in 1859?
One of the most impressive achievements of Stormer and his assistants was their numerical calculations of particle trajectories without electronic computers. More than 18000 working hours were spent on such calculations, and from the drawings and wire-models of these trajectories one gets a clear idea about how sensitive some trajectories are with respect to small changes in the initial conditions. This sensitivity, and its connection to chaos was first discovered in connection with other dynamical systems after it became common to solve such systems on computers.
Originally posted by Pilot
Oh goog god! C'mon you guys, Aloysius and Uncinus, she's destroying you with her abundance of data and pertinent on-topic rejoinders...
Originally posted by luxordelphi
The truth from this story about the researchers themselves and, if you were in the northern hemisphere, the truth you would be able to observe yourself almost irregardless of latitude.