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posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by Gmoneycricket

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by Gmoneycricket
I assume light pollution would also reflect from aircraft pollution(contrails),
increasing the effects of light pollution to the observer.
Same as clouds would have the same effect.


The fact that clouds or contrails actually obscure the sky is a much greater factor than their impact on light pollution.

Consider you get light pollution on a clear day with no contrails. Nobody noticed a decrease in light pollution after the 9/11 air shutdown, or the European volcano shutdown.

Light pollution is a constant. Contrail cloud cover varies.


I thought contrails were increasing,
with the number of increased aircraft in the air.
At least that is what I have been told in these threads before.


edit on 6-7-2012 by Gmoneycricket because: is


I mean throughout the year, like this year, 2012. From one day to the next the light pollution is the same (as the city uses the same lights), but contrail cloud cover varies from day to day, because it depends on the weather.




posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by Gmoneycricket

I find this very interesting,
as I wonder how man made cirrus clouds,
affect rain and drought.
Does more planes equal more drought?



The number of planes (flight) has been gradually increasing.

Drought goes up and down. Here's the drought severity index for the last 100 years in Texas (lower numbers are more drought)


There's no correlation.


That is just one state,
a study of 50 states, then a world wide study,
would help your claim.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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It's hardly a contentious claim. Everyone knows that drought goes up and down. Don't you remember a bunch of droughts when you were growing up, interspersed with no-droughts?

Here's a US graph of precipitation. Will that do?



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by Gmoneycricket

I find this very interesting,
as I wonder how man made cirrus clouds,
affect rain and drought.
Does more planes equal more drought?



The number of planes (flight) has been gradually increasing.

Drought goes up and down. Here's the drought severity index for the last 100 years in Texas (lower numbers are more drought)


There's no correlation.


This graph does not address cloud seeding attempts or failures.
We need some real science for the effects of man made cirrus clouds.
I would try to help and post some effects, or zero effects, but it seems it flip flops both ways,
in the world of science.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 




I find this very interesting, as I wonder how man made cirrus clouds, affect rain and drought.


This is an interesting topic because the bulk of the U.S., including Alaska and Hawaii and areas around the great lakes are in drought. From this map it seems pretty widespread and all the money that has been spent on cloud seeding and cloud seeding installations seems to have been completely wasted.

U.S. Drought Monitor

From the story that I originally put up about the farmers growing potatoes in the Andes and deciding on future rainfall based on whether or not the Pleiades were obscured, it seems like back in 2000 the way was already being paved for El Nino/La Nina to be blamed for pretty much everything although it is not clear from the story how El Nino obscures the Pleiades.

Stars...Clouds...Crops

Scientists have known that El Niño reduces rainfall in the Andes.


What are El Nino and La Nina?

El Nino - (El Nee-nyo) is the warming of water in the Pacific Ocean.


La Nina - (Lah Nee-Nyah) is the cooling of water in the Pacific Ocean.


Perhaps they are saying that the winds caused by the ninos carry cirrus (400 years ago real cirrus) (today fake cirrus from jet emissions) to the Andes which then obscure the Pleiades which is an indicator of drought.

Seems like the jet cirrus is involved in this Andes drought/no drought cycle.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 




Light pollution is a constant. Contrail cloud cover varies.


The thing with light pollution is that you can escape it (or used to be able to escape it.) Jet cirrus is another matter. Like the astronomers in the first link I gave you, who concluded that eventually Antarctica will be the only good earth-bound viewing spot, I, too, have observed that jet cirrus seems to be taking over.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Uncinus
 




Light pollution is a constant. Contrail cloud cover varies.


The thing with light pollution is that you can escape it (or used to be able to escape it.) Jet cirrus is another matter. Like the astronomers in the first link I gave you, who concluded that eventually Antarctica will be the only good earth-bound viewing spot, I, too, have observed that jet cirrus seems to be taking over.


That's just a consequence of increased air traffic and urban sprawl. I've never seen a contrail act substantially different from any similar clouds. The dissipation time is a consequence of the current weather, and not any nefarious intent. The plausibility and common sense factor would show that chemtrails would make no sense because it would be an uncontrollable mechanism.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by Equidae
 


Dear Equidae: thankyou for your contribution. I know this thread has gotten a little bit confused so let me recap for you, a play by play, if you will.

It started out talking about HAARP and what a big experiment it is on the people of the world. It mentioned some noises that electromagnetic waves seem able to produce and wondered at a tie-in with the noises being heard around the world and HAARP. It questioned the legallity of experimenting on U.S. citizens. And poignantly asked if rhetoric on this topic should escalate beyond manners.

There was a lot of good discussion about the law regarding experimenting on human beings and when it comes to the law, ignorance is not bliss. Some posters were confused - they weren't sure where they were and others thought this was some sort of a rant/free-for-all. Scientology was brought up for some strange reason. So we've been everywhere. Cheerleading for the outrageously persistent contrail side of the team entered the picture with wit and advice. The evils of government were touched on and a map of HAARP-like facilities was presented as well as an unusual ruling on electronic trespass.

What should be done, what could be done and what would be done were bandied as well as the 'so many consipiracies and so little time.'

The discussion turned to phenomenal magic and heat in the U.S. Astronomy viewing problems were discussed i.e. light pollution, jet cirrus, Antarctica (as a good viewing spot still.)

Cirrus obscuring the Pleiades and signalling drought were next on the ageneda. Jet emissions as relectant particles were mentioned as well as cloud seeding and the rampant drought. Here, contrail cirrus came full circle: blamed for both drought and obscuring stars. And then your contribution which I'm sure hoping you'll explain because I'd like to respond:



The plausibility and common sense factor would show that chemtrails would make no sense because it would be an uncontrollable mechanism.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 


I like your OP, excellent.

I read that Tesla claimed in 1908 that he could hit any antipodean planetary city with an enormous EM energy pulse, delivered in microseconds, that would "create an explosion equivalent to more than the power of the extant world navies’ combined ’Dreadnought’ battleship broadsides" (i.e., a huge force similar to that of a nuclear explosion) from just such a device.

I have been researching Tesla's work for almost 10 years and will be happy to pass on any and all of the information.


edit on 8-7-2012 by fireyaguns because: the letter t



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 08:28 PM
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FYI, some maybe interested in the link below inregards to free energy and some basic info about Nikola Tesla.

www.nikolateslasecret.com...

I'm sure some of Teslas patents are on here somewhere as there is many. Here below is 113 to start with.

corrosion-doctors.org...

There is alot more and some not registered.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
It started out talking about HAARP and what a big experiment it is on the people of the world.

How is that so? It's a atmospheric heater, working much like your microwave but on a larger scale, it heats the charged particles of the ionosphere by causing them to absorb the electromagnetic energy that is being transmitted at them. Your microwave does the same thing, only the molecules that absorb the energy in that case are water, which all food contains.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
It mentioned some noises that electromagnetic waves seem able to produce and wondered at a tie-in with the noises being heard around the world and HAARP.

Like what noises? Do you hear radio towers, cell phone towers, WIFI, the magnetic field being manipulated to put files on your hard disk, or the microwaves being emitted from power lines? No? So why would you be able to hear HAARP?



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by fireyaguns
 


Thankyou very much fireyaguns and I'm going to take you up on your offer to pass along some information from your own research.

The HAARP experiments have produced what they call a 'patch' of artificial ionosphere (a very high up area of our atmosphere).

HAARP Creates Bullseye In The Sky

"The novelty is not seeing the aurora - it's the fact that we can actually create enough high-energy electrons to form plasma," said Mike Kosch, chair of Experimental Space Science at Lancaster University, UK.


Plasma weapons seem like a new thing and on the other hand they seem like they've been around forever as described in this 1993 scenario from Russia. This description is also eerily similar to the ionospheric heating carry-on at HAARP.

Plasma Weapons

The Radio Instrument Building Research Institute under the supervision of Academician A. Avramenko developed a plasma weapon capable of killing any target at altitudes of up to 50 kilometers.


For practical purposes plasma weapons have already been created in Russia. Their action is based on focusing beams of electromagnetic energy produced by laser or microwave radiation into the upper layers of the atmosphere. These beams would be able to defeat any target flying at supersonic or near-sonic speeds in the near future. A cloud of highly ionized air arises at the focus of the laser or microwave rays, at an altitude of up to 50 kilometers. Upon entering it, any object--a missile, an airplane, is deflected from its trajectory and disintegrates in response to the fantastic overloads arising due to the abrupt pressure difference between the surface and interior of the flying body.


This article talks about the attention being paid now (2010) by the Navy to electromagnetic pulse weapons. HAARP does pulse the beam from its' heater.

Navy confirms TI reports on Electromagnetic Pulse WMD threat

New WMD: The most feared, controversial and best hidden weapon of modern age


Naval Sea System’s Command’s EMP assessment group is reportedly "the latest government agency to tackle the threat from an EMP." (Phillip Ewing, Electromagnetic pulse threat to be analyzed, Navy News, March 30, 2010)


My questions: HAARP seems like it has the capacity to be the ultimate plasma weapon. Is there sound involved with these weapons? Would it propogate as originally described in the link I put up about the aurora? (With something acting as an accidental reciever for the extremely low frequency waves?) How about when something gets disintegrated with a weapon like this - is there a sound?

I'm going to tell you right off the bat that I know zip about electricity except for a fiber optics course I took once which started off by saying that nobody really knows what electricity is. I understood from the links you put up that the sun is positive and the earth is negative and that this situation can create unlimited energy. BUT please, if you are able, tie this simple and easy to understand concept to the action of an ionospheric heater.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 


Your questions on why HAARP would be an experiment on the global population: HAARP is a research facility funded by the Navy, the Air Force, DARPA and the U. of Alaska. It researches the ionosphere (a little understood very high up portion of our atmosphere likened to a bubble covering the earth.) HAARP uses an ionospheric heater to heat portions of the ionosphere to see what will happen. These then are the experiments. The microwave examples you used: studies of microwave safety and ultimate effects on human beings are ongoing. Many people do not use microwaves and do not eat microwaved items because of what some of these studies have shown to date.



So why would you be able to hear HAARP?


That's really what a large part of this OP is about. The aurora has been 'heard.' People with a keener sense of hearing can certainly 'hear' the buzzing and crackling of high power installations - I can. So the best I can tell you at this point is be patient - I'll get back to you when I've figured it out.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by adeclerk
 


That's really what a large part of this OP is about. The aurora has been 'heard.' People with a keener sense of hearing can certainly 'hear' the buzzing and crackling of high power installations - I can. So the best I can tell you at this point is be patient - I'll get back to you when I've figured it out.


Mains hum is not a mysterious phenomena - electricity causes things to vibrate, which produces sound.

High voltage lines crackle in humid weather (uh oh...sounds liek somethign familiar??
) because the moisture in the air increases the conductivity of air, and therefoer ioinisation around the lines - allowing continuous noise that can be anythign from a hum to a loud crackling.

Many people have reported "hearing" the aurora, but there seems no actual evidence of it producing any sound as such - it is at a very high altitude where the air pressure is effectively zero, and so far away it would take 5 minutes for the sound to reach the ground!
edit on 8-7-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


The link you put up was interesting but more interesting was this offshoot from that link:

Corona discharge

A corona is a process by which a current flows from an electrode with a high potential into a neutral fluid, usually air, by ionizing that fluid so as to create a region of plasma around the electrode. The ions generated eventually pass charge to nearby areas of lower potential, or recombine to form neutral gas molecules.


That sounds more like what the ionospheric heater of HAARP is doing.

Also this from your original link I found interesting because the ionoshere itself and the reactions there have been described as non-linear.


Additional harmonics above 100 Hz or 120 Hz will be caused by the non-linear behavior of most common magnetic materials.


But the HAARP experiments are not experiments that have been done before and already a non-linear situation is mentioned for several of the areas involved. First HAARP was only able to create 'speckles' as far as an aurora goes and then graduated to being able to create a full-blown aurora. The sound that I'm interested in is the type of sound that has been reproduced in laboratory conditions for the aurora.

Damn Interesting: The Sound of the Aurora

Of all the hypotheses, the most likely suspect, since it can be duplicated in the lab, is electrophonic transduction. Certain very low frequency radio waves have the same frequency as sound waves. Long, thin conductors – grass, hair, wire eyeglass frames – serve as antennae for these radio waves. When these antennae receive the signal, they vibrate and transform the radio energy directly into sound.


VLF radio waves have been detected in aurora displays, and have been found to be produced by meteors as well. It is worth noting that sounds similar to those associated with aurora have been heard in conjunction with meteors, and even recorded.


So the next time there’s a nice display in your area, go outside. Get as far away from everything else as you can. Look up, and listen. You might just hear something inexplicable.


So these sounds being heard around the world seem inexplicable like this story says.



Many people have reported "hearing" the aurora, but there seems no actual evidence of it producing any sound as such


HAARP has really graduated beyond aurora and gone on to creating plasma. What's being done with it is something that we can't know that easily. Anyway I was just wondering if when you use this plasma to disintegrate something is it just all silent?



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


The link you put up was interesting but more interesting was this offshoot from that link:

Corona discharge

A corona is a process by which a current flows from an electrode with a high potential into a neutral fluid, usually air, by ionizing that fluid so as to create a region of plasma around the electrode. The ions generated eventually pass charge to nearby areas of lower potential, or recombine to form neutral gas molecules.


That sounds more like what the ionospheric heater of HAARP is doing.


I don't think so.

AFAIK HAARP generates radio waves, not electric current.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 




AFAIK HAARP generates radio waves, not electric current.


Yes but they're using the HF to heat/agitate the ionosphere.

Rockets Probe Atmosphere's Mysterious Electric Currents

Beginning about 50 miles (80 kilometers) above Earth's surface is an energetic, active part of the atmosphere known as the ionosphere. This area is filled with electrically charged particles such as protons and atomic oxygen created by extreme ultraviolet radiation from the sun reacting with air molecules.


At the base of the ionosphere, the movements of these charged particles, or plasma, create a pattern of electrical currents known as the atmospheric dynamo. These currents generally move in loops from the equator to the poles, changing daily based on solar heating and magnetic activity. But what keeps the dynamo moving is unclear. At the same time, winds of electrically neutral particles such as oxygen and nitric oxide molecules sweep through the lower ionosphere as well, complicating the picture.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
Yes but they're using the HF to heat/agitate the ionosphere.

Like how your microwave agitates the water molecules in your food, causing them to heat. There's nothing more to it.
Fun fact: The slight heating of the ionosphere creates small, artificial aurora, that are barely perceptible to the naked eye.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 




Fun fact: The slight heating of the ionosphere creates small, artificial aurora, that are barely perceptible to the naked eye.


Since you didn't add a link for your fun fact, I'm assuming that this is a fact in a separate reality? I don't know how fun it is.

Artificial ionosphere creates bullseye in the sky

One of the most obvious results of the experiments is that they can create lights in the sky that are similar to auroras, the glowing curtains of light that naturally appear in the polar skies when electrons and other charged particles pour down from Earth's protective magnetosphere into the upper atmosphere.


The technique has previously triggered speckles of light while running at a power of almost 1 megawatt. But since the facility ramped up to 3.6 megawatts — roughly three times more than a typical broadcast radio transmitter — it has created full-scale artificial auroras that are visible to the naked eye.


But in February last year, HAARP managed to induce a strange bullseye pattern in the night sky.


The team modelled how the energy sent skywards from the HAARP antenna array would trigger these odd shapes. They determined that the areas of the bullseye with strange light patterns were in regions of denser, partially ionized gas in the atmosphere


And HAARP's PR director says that the researchers are able to 'paint designs in the sky.'



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
Since you didn't add a link for your fun fact, I'm assuming that this is a fact in a separate reality? I don't know how fun it is.

Which part of that was contradictory to what I said? Do you hear many reports of people in Alaska seeing this artificial aurora?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
And HAARP's PR director says that the researchers are able to 'paint designs in the sky.'

Mike Kosch, a researcher at HAARP from your article had this to say:


"Whether it's useful or not is another story," he adds, joking that companies might one day hire physicists to use the technology to write glowing advertisements in the night sky.




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