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posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by Pilot
 


I think your conversion has gone too far old fruit. If you think knowing that chemtrails are hogwash is he same as thinking the govt is a benevolent force for good, you might need to go back to being a chemmie and starting again




posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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HAARP-like facilities are located all over the world. These facilities also experiment in the ionosphere (a kind of bubble that surrounds the world). Some of the facilities are admitted while others are not. Here is a map showing both the known and possible facilities. One of the points missing here is Antarctica where it has also been suggested that a facility like this exists.

Best Estimate of World HAARP and HAARP-Like Facilities

Here is a 26 second video showing a possible facility like this in Japan:

HAARP-Like Facility in Japan

I think that these signature antenna arrays are a dead-giveaway. But, on the other hand, most of these facilities are located in very remote and difficult to access areas. They are also often on federal, government or private land so that brings up the subject of trespass. I read an interesting article with kind of a different twist on trespass the other day:

Pleadings

Trespass is the interference with a person’s right to possession of real property either by an unlawful act or by a lawful act performed in an unlawful manner. The act must be intentional and the damages a direct consequence of the defendant’s act.

In San Diego Gas & Electric Co. v. Superior Court, 13 Cal. 4th 893 (Cal. 1996), the court held that trespass may not be predicated on intangible intrusions such as noise, odors, light, or electromagnetic fields.


HAARP has been accused of producing some of these effects and in the OP I mentioned a few instances of ionospheric phenomena or related phenomena. The ionosphere, even though it covers us all, is not really very well understood. That's why this experiment on all the people on earth is being conducted. To see what happens. As a human experimental subject, a clowderette as it were, I have to object.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
As a human experimental subject, a clowderette as it were, I have to object.


What are you going to do?



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 




What are you going to do?


I'm going to celebrate the 4th.

I heard about HAARP right around the same time that I first noticed chemtrails/unrealistically persistent contrails. My hubby, an electronics buff, brought it up. I immediately turned away from it because I couldn't understand the first thing about it.

I read alot of threads on ATS about HAARP. None of them made any sense to me. Then I read a thread about HAARP that mentioned ELF waves and their mood altering properties. That was something I could understand. Starting in that small corner, I moved outward. It's kind of like the tiny tiny hairline crack in a foundation that allows it to eventually be overturned.

It has come to my attention that HAARP is, potentially, the greatest disaster to ever approach the earth, unless, possibly, you believe in the Atlantis myths. Just the almost supernatural sky shows, the phenomenal magic observable today, would be enough to convince someone if they could understand enough about HAARP to realize that it is entirely possible for these things to occur as a result of strategically and powerfully (relying on the chain reactions available within the ionosphere to augment this power) heating the ionosphere. Because they are happening.

The entrapment capabilities, the possibility of creating, through electromagnetic waves, an almost sleepwalking and somewhat hypnotic but definitely suggestible state is probably a population control enthusiasts' epic dream.

So what am I going to do? I'm going to wake up.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
Just the almost supernatural sky shows, the phenomenal magic observable today


You mean things like this?





posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by waynos
 


edit on 4-7-2012 by Pilot because: (no reason given)


It's all or nothing old sport, I don't have time for nuance when it comes to chemtrail insanity. Go your own way, I'll go mine. You are off the bff list, however if you ever need a tension release from your chemmie debunking, please do U2U ...something can be arranged, willing to travel...
edit on 4-7-2012 by Pilot because: (no reason given)


edit on 5-7-2012 by Pilot because: waynos is a Kant/editby]
edit on 5-7-2012 by Pilot because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 12:05 AM
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Ya but what are you suppose to do? Who are you suppose to blame? What are you suppose to try and fix? It's a puzzle you can't piece together. You have a hard enough life just trying to put food on the table. Let alone as one person go after some huge conglamerate who will have you killed if you snoop too much. So all you can do is come in a forum like this and express your opinions. That's all anyone can do. The only other thing you can do is resist the establishment in as many aspects of your life as you can. And not go along with all the tyranny. But as far as solving these things you can't really. And if you solved one then there's a 100 others following that one. A sheep will never be able to figure out or dominate a shepard.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 




You mean things like this?


No. When I said almost supernatural and phenomenally magical, I meant that. Like this:

Artificial ionosphere creates bullseye in the sky

HAARP's high-frequency radio waves can accelerate electrons in the atmosphere, increasing the energy of their collisions and creating a glow. The technique has previously triggered speckles of light while running at a power of almost 1 megawatt. But since the facility ramped up to 3.6 megawatts — roughly three times more than a typical broadcast radio transmitter — it has created full-scale artificial auroras that are visible to the naked eye.


But in February last year, HAARP managed to induce a strange bullseye pattern in the night sky. Instead of the expected fuzzy, doughnut-shaped blob, surprising irregular luminescent bands radiated out from the centre of the bullseye, says Todd Pedersen, a research physicist at the US Air Force Research Laboratory in Massachusetts, who leads the team that ran the experiment at HAARP.


HAARP's own PR director says they can 'paint' designs in the sky. That story I quoted is from 2008 or 2009 - this is 2012. What have we seen lately that's really wierd...no, wait...we've been hearing stuff. But maybe it's ice crystals? Maybe they're giving off sound now? Something like 7,000+ heat records broken in the U.S. in recent months and that physics professor in Brasil typing up a paper on how HAARP can cause localized heating. There's a thread on it. In the U.S., there's a lid on it.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by r2d246
 


Thankyou for your thoughtful contribution.



It's a puzzle you can't piece together.


I look at it like a puzzle too. It's like a murder mystery, a whodone-it, where there are a lot of clues but no one single suspect that ties in with all of it. Or, seemingly, no one single precipitating event. Or could there be?

The detective in a mystery usually has to put together a time line. In this case, imo, I'd look for escalation, extreme ramp-up and then look just before that time to see what could have prompted all of the activity. There are several questions I would want to answer: 1. why the complete seeming reckless disregard for public safety with new materials and new technologies...and...2. why can't I see the masses of stars I used to be able to see at night...and...3. why Iraq? Tying those 3 items to one precipitating event would be a start, imo.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
.2. why can't I see the masses of stars I used to be able to see at night


Light pollution?




posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 




Light pollution?


Not really. This is an old story - from 2006. It suggests taking your amateur telescope, or any telescope, to Antarctica as the only place left to view skies without jet trails. Doesn't sound like going out to the country is going to help.

Telescopes 'worthless' by 2050

"You get these contrails from the jets. The rate at which they're expanding in terms of their fractional cover of the stratosphere is so large that if predictions are right, in 40 years it won't be worth having telescopes on Earth anymore - it's that soon.


But Professor Gilmore countered: "There are places where you get relatively fewer clouds - that's where we put our telescopes - but there is nowhere on Earth that you don't get clouds and aeroplanes.


"We know from satellite imagery that clusters of contrails can last for two days. If carried by the upper jet stream through the troposphere, they can travel hundreds of kilometres."


A location has not been decided; but, despite the difficulties of access, Antarctica may become an option.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 


But seeing as you don't get contrails every day, that would suggest you see lots of stars some days? Do you?



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 




But seeing as you don't get contrails every day, that would suggest you see lots of stars some days? Do you?


Well, again, no, it really doesn't suggest that. Here's another old story (from 2000) put out strategically at the time to 'explain' what was to be a coming phenomenon. (Although in some places in the U.S., it didn't happen until some 3 or so years later.)

Anyway, the story, through a NASA affilliate, is about predicting the potato crop in the Andes by using the visibility of the Pleiades. The Pleiades are a tiny cluster of stars (once thought to be the only cluster where the stars were actually in reality in relationship to each other i.e. within reasonable distances) that look like a tiny mini-dipper.

The bulk of cirrus (high, thin clouds) are virtually invisible because they don't look like clouds but they still do obscure the view which is most noticeable at night because the stars are obscured.

Stars...Clouds...Crops

The dimmer the Pleiades, as determined by their apparent size and brilliance, the less rain the area will get six months later, said Benjamin Orlove, an anthropology professor from the University of California at Davis. If the stars are dim, sky-watchers anticipate dry weather and delay planting to reduce crop damage.


Orlove, Mark Cane, atmospheric scientist from Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University, and John Chiang, graduate student at Lamont-Doherty, believe high, thin cirrus clouds obscure the Pleiades, the way thick low clouds sometimes make the sun look like a small disk.


Thin cirrus clouds are invisible from the ground and form above other clouds, near the top of the troposphere, the layer of Earth's atmosphere where weather occurs.


In a related but unrelated story, which I can't link because I can't find the link, there was in the early to mid 1990's an astronomers' conference of some kind where one of the speakers had just had laser eye surgery. He excitedly exclaimed that he could now see 7 stars in the Pleiades with the naked eye rather than the usual 6.

Why just six stars in the 'Seven Sisters?'

Depictions of the Pleiades often show just six stars because, with the eye alone, most people see only six stars here.
edit on 6-7-2012 by luxordelphi because: correct punctuation



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Uncinus
 




But seeing as you don't get contrails every day, that would suggest you see lots of stars some days? Do you?


Well, again, no, it really doesn't suggest that. Here's another old story (from 2000) put out strategically at the time to 'explain' what was to be a coming phenomenon. (Although in some places in the U.S., it didn't happen until some 3 or so years later.)

Anyway, the story, through a NASA affilliate, is about predicting the potato crop in the Andes by using the visibility of the Pleiades. The Pleiades are a tiny cluster of stars (once thought to be the only cluster where the stars were actually in reality in relationship to each other i.e. within reasonable distances) that look like a tiny mini-dipper.


You forgot to mention that this is not a new thing at all, but some traditional rain forecasting method used for 400 years in the rituals of the Andean mountain people.


For more than 400 years, Andean mountain people in Peru and Bolivia have forecasted the most auspicious time to plant potatoes by stargazing

Aymara- and Quechua-speaking farmers watch the skies for a week before the Catholic festival celebrating San Juan (Saint John), June 24. At midnight of the feast day, villagers climb the mountains, arriving at the peaks a few hours before dawn to drink and sing. Looking toward the northeast, where the Pleiades, a cluster of stars in the constellation Taurus, shine not far above the horizon, the farmers gauge the stars' brightness, note the stars' apparent sizes and the positions of the brightest stars.


Of course contrail cirrus obscure the sky. But they don't do it every day. You seem to claim that they do.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Another explanation and illustration of light pollution:
physics.fau.edu...



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 07:19 PM
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I assume light pollution would also reflect from aircraft pollution(contrails),
increasing the effects of light pollution to the observer.
Same as clouds would have the same effect.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Uncinus
 




But seeing as you don't get contrails every day, that would suggest you see lots of stars some days? Do you?


Well, again, no, it really doesn't suggest that. Here's another old story (from 2000) put out strategically at the time to 'explain' what was to be a coming phenomenon. (Although in some places in the U.S., it didn't happen until some 3 or so years later.)

Anyway, the story, through a NASA affilliate, is about predicting the potato crop in the Andes by using the visibility of the Pleiades. The Pleiades are a tiny cluster of stars (once thought to be the only cluster where the stars were actually in reality in relationship to each other i.e. within reasonable distances) that look like a tiny mini-dipper.

The bulk of cirrus (high, thin clouds) are virtually invisible because they don't look like clouds but they still do obscure the view which is most noticeable at night because the stars are obscured.

Stars...Clouds...Crops

The dimmer the Pleiades, as determined by their apparent size and brilliance, the less rain the area will get six months later, said Benjamin Orlove, an anthropology professor from the University of California at Davis. If the stars are dim, sky-watchers anticipate dry weather and delay planting to reduce crop damage.


Orlove, Mark Cane, atmospheric scientist from Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University, and John Chiang, graduate student at Lamont-Doherty, believe high, thin cirrus clouds obscure the Pleiades, the way thick low clouds sometimes make the sun look like a small disk.


Thin cirrus clouds are invisible from the ground and form above other clouds, near the top of the troposphere, the layer of Earth's atmosphere where weather occurs.


In a related but unrelated story, which I can't link because I can't find the link, there was in the early to mid 1990's an astronomers' conference of some kind where one of the speakers had just had laser eye surgery. He excitedly exclaimed that he could now see 7 stars in the Pleiades with the naked eye rather than the usual 6.

Why just six stars in the 'Seven Sisters?'

Depictions of the Pleiades often show just six stars because, with the eye alone, most people see only six stars here.
edit on 6-7-2012 by luxordelphi because: correct punctuation


I find this very interesting,
as I wonder how man made cirrus clouds,
affect rain and drought.
Does more planes equal more drought?



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by Gmoneycricket
I assume light pollution would also reflect from aircraft pollution(contrails),
increasing the effects of light pollution to the observer.
Same as clouds would have the same effect.


The fact that clouds or contrails actually obscure the sky is a much greater factor than their impact on light pollution.

Consider you get light pollution on a clear day with no contrails. Nobody noticed a decrease in light pollution after the 9/11 air shutdown, or the European volcano shutdown.

Light pollution is a constant. Contrail cloud cover varies.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by Gmoneycricket
I assume light pollution would also reflect from aircraft pollution(contrails),
increasing the effects of light pollution to the observer.
Same as clouds would have the same effect.


The fact that clouds or contrails actually obscure the sky is a much greater factor than their impact on light pollution.

Consider you get light pollution on a clear day with no contrails. Nobody noticed a decrease in light pollution after the 9/11 air shutdown, or the European volcano shutdown.

Light pollution is a constant. Contrail cloud cover varies.


I thought contrails were increasing,
with the number of increased aircraft in the air.
At least that is what I have been told in these threads before.

edit on 6-7-2012 by Gmoneycricket because: is



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by Gmoneycricket

I find this very interesting,
as I wonder how man made cirrus clouds,
affect rain and drought.
Does more planes equal more drought?



The number of planes (flight) has been gradually increasing.

Drought goes up and down. Here's the drought severity index for the last 100 years in Texas (lower numbers are more drought)


There's no correlation.





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