You tell me.

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posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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As I read through the various threads and internet offerrings on the strange sound phenomena, it occurs to me that, perhaps, politeness is overrated. Perhaps manners are not as foundational to civilization as I once thought. You tell me.

Waiting while compromised experts verify that what we hear is actually what we hear and fading into obscurity through failure to understand the propaganda that passes for science these days, is, perhaps, not the best option - not a survival option at all. You tell me.

Geoengineering, the remaking of our environment into the image of madmen and women, is taking place right in front of us and we are seeing and hearing and feeling the results every day and yet because 'experts' are still verifying something in language that is foreign to us, we sleep. They know best. Do they? You tell me.

The Bell Island Boom

Dozens of witnesses reported seeing a beam of multi-coloured light coming straight down from the sky moments before they heard what is now referred to as “The Bell Island Boom.”


Two holes, each two feet deep and three feet wide, were found at the point of impact. Several buildings were damaged, chickens were electrocuted, dogs went nuts, power lines melted, and more than a few television sets exploded as a result.


Within twenty-hour hours, two American representatives from the top secret Los Alamos weapons research facility in New Mexico were on the scene. They promptly declared the baffling boom to be nothing more than the result of “ball lightning” which had been attracted by a nearby abandoned underwater iron mine. The two officials then departed, taking the fried chickens with them.


In this instance, imo, the researchers at Los Alamos were not specifically aiming at this small town but it does give an idea of the volatility and unpredictability of the ionosphere and what ionospheric research can do. But that was 1978 and this is 2012. Those experiments were in 1978 and there are more advanced experiments now - we have HAARP.

Lightning jets...ever heard of them? They were discovered in 2001, well into the HAARP experiments.

Watching lightning jets hit the ionosphere

Because they connect thunderstorms directly to the ionosphere, gigantic jets play some role in the global flow of electricity around our planet, but how big is that role? No one knows. Investigations of gigantic jets are considered cutting-edge.


If you are an amateur astronomer, you can help in this experiment. Do you remember when NASA asked school children to help identify jet emission cirrus for their chemtrail experiments? Well this is similar to that.


Amateur astronomers, you can contribute to this research. Check your local weather radar map for storms just over the horizon, point your meteor cameras in that direction, and click.


So not only can you be an experimentee but you can also be an experimenter. Who knew?

Damn Interesting: The Sound of the Aurora

If you happen to be reasonably close to one of the Earth's magnetic poles, the next time there's a particularly intense aurora, go outside. Get as far as you can from sources of noise - traffic, barking dogs, TVs - and listen.


If conditions are right, you may hear some unusual noises. Earwitnesses have said the sound is like radio static, a small animal rustling through dry grass and leaves, or the crinkling of a cellophane wrapper.


It’s the sound of the aurora itself. And the cause is currently unknown.


Another theory also claims it’s all in your head, but for a different reason. Electrophonic hearing is the direct stimulation of the auditory nerves by external electromagnetic fields. There are reports of people hearing “clicks” and “pops” coincident with lightning flashes, and well ahead of any thunder, that can only be explained this way


Of all the hypotheses, the most likely suspect, since it can be duplicated in the lab, is electrophonic transduction. Certain very low frequency radio waves have the same frequency as sound waves. Long, thin conductors – grass, hair, wire eyeglass frames – serve as antennae for these radio waves. When these antennae receive the signal, they vibrate and transform the radio energy directly into sound.


But experimenting with the public is illegal, right? Not really. 30 days notice to congress will put you on your way.

Mass Murder of Americans Admitted By DOD

Well, this is for chemical and biological agents. What about noise? There are some nuisance laws but really ionospheric booms probably don't fall under those and anyway nobody really knows very much about any of this although we're trying really really hard to find out. But even so, it's an experiment - the HAARP website itself says this - research - and it's our ionosphere, above us, so we are the experimentees and now we have been invited to play a dual role. Too bad that experimentee and experimenter couldn't be somehow made to pay for it too...but wait...who paid for HAARP?

High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) is an ionospheric research program jointly funded by the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. Navy, the University of Alaska, and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA).


So at what point should I object? At what point should I put aside manners and say something harsh and realistic? You tell me.
edit on 3-7-2012 by luxordelphi because: correct spelling




posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
But experimenting with the public is illegal, right? Not really. 30 days notice to congress will put you on your way.


That's nonsense. Experiments on people require informed consent. Informed consent meant that you have to explicitly know and understand what the experiment is, and specifically consent to it.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:03 PM
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So at what point should I object? At what point should I put aside manners and say something harsh and realistic? You tell me.


Great post Luxor, I would say the time is now.

I'm not a big Donald Trump fan. But I think this comment he made applies.




posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 





That's nonsense. Experiments on people require informed consent. Informed consent meant that you have to explicitly know and understand what the experiment is, and specifically consent to it.


Blah, blah, blah .... informed consent ...... blah, blah, blah.




Source

The 13 Most Evil U.S. Government Experiments on Humans


4 Deadly Chemical Sprays on American Cities


Showing once again that the U.S. always tends to test out worse-case scenarios by getting to them first and with the advent of biochemical warfare in the mid 20th century, the Army, CIA and government conducted a series of warfare simulations upon American cities to see how the effects would play out in the event of an actual chemical attack.

They conducted the following air strikes/naval attacks:

- The CIA released a whooping cough virus on Tampa Bay, using boats, and so caused a whooping cough epidemic. 12 people died.

- The Navy sprayed San Francisco with bacterial pathogens and in consequence many citizens developed pneumonia.

- Upon Savannah, GA and Avon Park, FL, the army released millions of mosquitoes in the hopes they would spread yellow fever and dengue fever. The swarm left Americans struggling with fevers, typhoid, respiratory problems, and the worst, stillborn children.

Even worse was that after the swarm, the Army came in disguised as public health workers. Their secret intention the entire time they were giving aid to the victims was to study and chart-out the long term effects of all the illnesses they were suffering.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus
reply to post by Uncinus
 





That's nonsense. Experiments on people require informed consent. Informed consent meant that you have to explicitly know and understand what the experiment is, and specifically consent to it.


Blah, blah, blah .... informed consent ...... blah, blah, blah.



I suspect your list of experiments is not entirely accurate, but that's not the point.

luxordelphi said that experimenting on the public was "not really" illegal.

But it is illegal. What people did in the past does not change that. Slavery happened in the past, that does not mean it is not illegal.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


Informed consent laws do not always apply to the Government or military.

Why don't you provide some proof to back up your statements?


www.ahrp.org...

John Glenn on Informed Consent

THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD
January 22, 1997
Statements on Introduced Bills and Joint Resolutions
(Page S645)
Human Research Subject Protection Act

One of the most infamous of these experiments took place in my own State of Ohio, when scores of patients at the University of Cincinnati were subjected to large doses of radiation during experimental treatments, without their consent, without their informed consent. During the course of this investigation, I began to ask the question, what protections are in place to prevent such abuses from happening again? What law prohibits experimenting on people without their informed consent?

What I found, when I looked into it, is there is no law on the books requiring that informed consent be obtained. More important, I believe there is a need for such a law, as there continue to be cases where this basic right - I do view it as a basic right - is abused. As I started out, I would like to put this on a personal level for everyone of my colleagues. You just think about your own family, your own son, your own daughter, or grandchildren who might be, the next time they go to a doctor, the subject of some medical experiment that they are not even told about. I do not think there can be many things more un-American than that.
edit on 7/3/2012 by IpsissimusMagus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Tsunamis....HAARP

Earthquakes.....HAARP

Hurricanes....HAARP

Strange sounds in the sky....HAARP

Unseasonal weather....HAARP

Not sleeping well at night....HAARP

Back problems....HAARP

Toothaches...HAARP

Acne....HAARP

Girlfriend unresponsive...HAARP

Dog's tail not wagging....HAARP

Loud neighbors....HAARP

Beer not cold enough....HAARP

Favorite team not winning....HAARP

Itchy balls....HAARP

Fat people....HAARP

Skinny people....HAARP

Ugly people....HAARP

Hairy back...HAARP

Hairy palms....HAARP

Hairy women....HAARP

Loose socks in the drier...HAARP

A general pain in the ass...HAARP

Man, that HAARP kicks ass!!!!!



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus





But it is illegal. What people did in the past does not change that. Slavery happened in the past, that does not mean it is not illegal.


Technically it may be illegal but since when has any government agency ever worried about sticking to the letter of the law? Experimental programs like MK Ultra are still being carried out on American citizens with out their knowledge or consent. As well as medical experimentation on children ex...Ted Gunderson etc.

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.winstonsmith.net...



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:30 PM
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Notice that there are exemptions to the current informed consent laws. Most of the informed consent laws apply to people who volunteer for experiments.

They do not apply to classified experiments by the Government or military.



www.raven1.net...

Human Research Subject
Protections Act of 1997

by US Senator John Glenn



en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 7/3/2012 by IpsissimusMagus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus
reply to post by Uncinus
 


Informed consent laws do not always apply to the Government or military.

Why don't you provide some proof to back up your statements?


www.ahrp.org...

John Glenn on Informed Consent

THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD
January 22, 1997
Statements on Introduced Bills and Joint Resolutions
(Page S645)
Human Research Subject Protection Act

One of the most infamous of these experiments took place in my own State of Ohio, when scores of patients at the University of Cincinnati were subjected to large doses of radiation during experimental treatments, without their consent, without their informed consent. During the course of this investigation, I began to ask the question, what protections are in place to prevent such abuses from happening again? What law prohibits experimenting on people without their informed consent?

What I found, when I looked into it, is there is no law on the books requiring that informed consent be obtained. More important, I believe there is a need for such a law, as there continue to be cases where this basic right - I do view it as a basic right - is abused. As I started out, I would like to put this on a personal level for everyone of my colleagues. You just think about your own family, your own son, your own daughter, or grandchildren who might be, the next time they go to a doctor, the subject of some medical experiment that they are not even told about. I do not think there can be many things more un-American than that.
edit on 7/3/2012 by IpsissimusMagus because: (no reason given)


Yes, the law on informed consent was not in place when those experiments took place. It is now, and in fact it is as a result of investigations like that one by John Glenn.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus
Notice that there are exemptions to the current informed consent laws. Most of the informed consent laws apply to people who volunteer for experiments.

They do not apply to classified experiments by the Government or military.



www.raven1.net...

Human Research Subject
Protections Act of 1997

by US Senator John Glenn



en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 7/3/2012 by IpsissimusMagus because: (no reason given)


And where exactly are these exceptions? Can you quote them?



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 





And where exactly are these exceptions? Can you quote them?


I asked you to quote the law that protects people first.

You haven't provided any proof that such a law exists.

Show me the law you're talking about.




www.raven1.net...

TITLE II--CLASSIFIED RESEARCH

SEC. 201. PROHIBITION.

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no Federal funds shall be expended for the conduct of any classified research where a board has waived informed consent as defined in the common rule protections or where a determination has been made that the research is exempt from review by such a board.
edit on 7/3/2012 by IpsissimusMagus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
yet because 'experts' are still verifying something in language that is foreign to us, we sleep.


And herein lies the problem with your argument.

Just because you don't understand the science by no means implies that nobody else does.

Perhaps if you invested a portion of the time you have spent pursuing nonsensical conspiracy theories on educating yourself in real science you could better understand what is being said by the academics?



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus

Blah, blah, blah .... informed consent ...... blah, blah, blah.




Source

The 13 Most Evil U.S. Government Experiments on Humans


4 Deadly Chemical Sprays on American Cities


Showing once again that the U.S. always tends to test out worse-case scenarios by getting to them first and with the advent of biochemical warfare in the mid 20th century, the Army, CIA and government conducted a series of warfare simulations upon American cities to see how the effects would play out in the event of an actual chemical attack.

They conducted the following air strikes/naval attacks:

- The CIA released a whooping cough virus on Tampa Bay, using boats, and so caused a whooping cough epidemic. 12 people died.

- The Navy sprayed San Francisco with bacterial pathogens and in consequence many citizens developed pneumonia.

- Upon Savannah, GA and Avon Park, FL, the army released millions of mosquitoes in the hopes they would spread yellow fever and dengue fever. The swarm left Americans struggling with fevers, typhoid, respiratory problems, and the worst, stillborn children.

Even worse was that after the swarm, the Army came in disguised as public health workers. Their secret intention the entire time they were giving aid to the victims was to study and chart-out the long term effects of all the illnesses they were suffering.


Just looked into the first of those, the only source for it seems to be the Church of Scientology, who were operating an anti-government propaganda campaign in the 1970s. Here's the source news story from 1979:


Hardly seems like a reliable source.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus
reply to post by Uncinus
 





And where exactly are these exceptions? Can you quote them?


I asked you to quote the law that protects people first.

You haven't provided any proof that such a law exists.

Show me the law you're talking about.



uscode.house.gov...



-CITE- 50 USC Sec. 1520a 01/03/2012 (112-90)-EXPCITE- TITLE 50 - WAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE CHAPTER 32 - CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WARFARE PROGRAM-HEAD- Sec. 1520a. Restrictions on use of human subjects for testing of chemical or biological agents-STATUTE-

(a) Prohibited activities
The Secretary of Defense may not conduct (directly or by contract) - (1) any test or experiment involving the use of a chemical agent or biological agent on a civilian population; or (2) any other testing of a chemical agent or biological agent on human subjects.

(b) Exceptions
Subject to subsections (c), (d), and (e) of this section, the prohibition in subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a test or experiment carried out for any of the following purposes: (1) Any peaceful purpose that is related to a medical, therapeutic, pharmaceutical, agricultural, industrial, or research activity. (2) Any purpose that is directly related to protection against toxic chemicals or biological weapons and agents. (3) Any law enforcement purpose, including any purpose related to riot control.

(c) Informed consent required
The Secretary of Defense may conduct a test or experiment described in subsection (b) of this section only if informed consent to the testing was obtained from each human subject in advance of the testing on that subject.


See section c.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 08:03 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 





See section c.


Did you see section b



uscode.house.gov...


(b) Exceptions
Subject to subsections (c), (d), and (e) of this section, the prohibition in subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a test or experiment carried out for any of the following purposes: (1) Any peaceful purpose that is related to a medical, therapeutic, pharmaceutical, agricultural, industrial, or research activity. (2) Any purpose that is directly related to protection against toxic chemicals or biological weapons and agents. (3) Any law enforcement purpose, including any purpose related to riot control.






uscode.house.gov...

-STATUTE-

None of the funds authorized to be appropriated by this Act or
any other Act may be used for the transportation of any lethal
chemical or any biological warfare agent to or from any military
installation in the United States, or the open air testing of any
such agent within the United States, or the disposal of any such
agent within the United States until the following procedures have
been implemented:

(1) the Secretary of Defense (hereafter referred to in this
chapter as the "Secretary") has determined that the
transportation or testing proposed to be made is necessary in the
interests of national security
;



There you have it. If it classified as a matter of National Security then this law does not apply.

edit on 7/3/2012 by IpsissimusMagus because: typo



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus
reply to post by Uncinus
 





See section c.


Did you see section b



Yes, section c is ABOUT section b. Did you read it?



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus


uscode.house.gov...

-STATUTE-

None of the funds authorized to be appropriated by this Act or
any other Act may be used for the transportation of any lethal
chemical or any biological warfare agent to or from any military
installation in the United States, or the open air testing of any
such agent within the United States, or the disposal of any such
agent within the United States until the following procedures have
been implemented:

(1) the Secretary of Defense (hereafter referred to in this
chapter as the "Secretary") has determined that the
transportation or testing proposed to be made is necessary in the
interests of national security
;



There you have it. If it classified as a matter of National Security then this law does not apply.

edit on 7/3/2012 by IpsissimusMagus because: typo


That's not what it says. It says that funds can only be used if it is in the interests of nationally security. Informed consent is still required.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 





That's not what it says. It says that funds can only be used if it is in the interests of nationally security. Informed consent is still required.


I disagree, there are plenty of loopholes and exemptions that allow for testing to be conducted on an unsuspecting public without informed consent.

When the risks are known to not be life threatening or not be a severe health risk then informed consent is not required. Also in the interests of National Security informed consent is not required.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus
reply to post by Uncinus
 





That's not what it says. It says that funds can only be used if it is in the interests of nationally security. Informed consent is still required.


I disagree, there are plenty of loopholes and exemptions that allow for testing to be conducted on an unsuspecting public without informed consent.

When the risks are known to not be life threatening or not be a severe health risk then informed consent is not required. Also in the interests of National Security informed consent is not required.


Nonsense. The law clearly states that ALL testing must be be in the interest of national security. It also states that ALL testing requires informed consent.





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