The Higgs Boson... yes, .... and what...?

reply to post by Rocketman7


So in terms of danger, if a kid jumps into the ball tent at MacDonalds in the play area, the balls just form around the kid but send in a cannonball, or freight train we like to use freight train because the weights are relative in the impact it does clear the balls so then you get a wormhole. Now I had said mini-black hole, but that is what people were calling them.

An actual black hole is where a star implodes, so you see you have mass going in the opposite direction of the arrow of time. And so it falls back into a deep well, a gravity well, and it is shrinking and getting more dense.

It has been exploded in that direction. And so if it is a black hole, it will not rebound but will stay back there and maybe till it evaporates etc.

So you need mass for a black hole. Remove the quantum foam, you have a pure vacuum, a hole in space-time, maybe a wormhole but who knows what shape when you make it with a freight train. If you rip that space-time fabric apart and it is actually granular like those balls in the play tent, then that tells us a lot.

Is there another force down there or forces down there? Well we want to know everything about everything so we keep trying to find out.

reply to post by Rocketman7


You want to hear the story? I told the people working on Bose Einstein condensate that what would happen is you would probably get a small scale nuclear explosion. Ok so that made them nervous, me too a little bit because as I say there was the remotest chance that the factor would be different on such a small level.
But I was pretty sure so it was all pretty low key and no one was even looking when they announced they had done it and it met with prediction according to Einstein's theory. Thats what we were using and I was as well just with a new model of the atom. A simplified model so we could predict things easier.

So thats not as scary as when Enrico Fermi, flipped the switch at Pile 1, in Chicago.
en.wikipedia.org...

Right at the university of Chicago, the first sustained nuclear reaction. Well? Everyone was pretty sure what would occur.
Pretty sure.
Pretty sure the atmosphere would not ignite, and everything.

I guess I should clarify they were wondering what would happen to Bose Einstein condensate if you go below absolute zero or reach absolute zero, what happens at that flat line. So that was the question and you see the Bosenova, it goes below the flat line, implodes, then explodes.
And that was significant because it proved our theories, confirmed Einstein once again, and helped move some of us one step closer to a better working model of the atom for this type of work.
It also gave us confidence that we knew a great deal about that level of behavior of atoms under such a huge scale, from that tiny explosion, to a supernova and everything in between.

And so if you need mass to make an explosion, then baby we have that data covered. Thanks to Einstein.

reply to post by Rocketman7


So, considering all that I have written in this thread, you would now know a great deal about how CERN works, and also that it works horizontally. Only if you had a thousand CERNs pointing all at the center target in a spherical formation, could you really meet the GOD particle, face to to face. Thats opposite the arrow of time, thats what gets matter excited the most.

Blasting a freight train through a marshmallow filled mountain, might make a cool wormhole, and if it was marshmallow, you might be able to melt the sides, and have a tunnel.

The thing is though that thus far, it appears to be like that ball tent play ground item that kids jump into.
So the balls just come right back in behind and the tunnel doesn't stay open.

So if they took any mass and accelerated it at the speed of light, it would hit a brick wall. Like you have a sound barrier, you have a light barrier and its hard to get across.
And again if you can do that, then again you are going faster in time and into the future.
The rest of the universe is standing still. It might seem solid.
Brick wall.

Now if you blow those bricks out of the way, no brick wall.

Sustain the beam, maybe you can keep blowing those balls out of the way. But even then you still aren't going faster than c.but maybe because there are no balls in the way, you could send something else down that tunnel, well you could send a Fourier transform and send data maybe. In the beam, people have done that.
Then they claim they sent information faster than light with a laser.

It is all very exciting stuff and hugely expensive stuff at CERN, but we need well qualified experts in the nuclear industry and we cannot afford to have people who do not have some hands on experience in high energy physics.

So I am a wave man, but I still recognize the need for particle physics.

reply to post by Rocketman7


So they check their results against a world-wide group of people they know, against their own findings and what they are supposed see to see if their results conflict with other people's results, and then they announce.

And so this is pretty incredible for physics because it opens a lot of doors for research.

reply to post by Rocketman7


www.usatoday.com...

Yeah you really can't imagine how exciting this is. Not many years ago people would certainly have said it was beyond our capabilities. Imagine the amount of teamwork and effort that managed to get man to the next level.
And at this point that is what it represents. So its exciting for me, but it is eureka for them, and having had that moment myself in the past in my own work, it makes you giddy in one sense and elated in another and leaves you sort of awestruck.

"This boson is a very profound thing we have found. We're reaching into the fabric of the universe in a way we never have done before. We've kind of completed one particle's story," he said. "Now, we're way out on the edge of exploration."

reply to post by Rocketman7


So you know I am a religious man, not all scientists are religious in the same sense, but in any sense its a religious experience when you discover a fundamental about nature.

And so even religious people such as the Cardinal are making comment and one comment that came up was that religion does make men free. And again, if you consider, just how much pressure Enrico Fermi was under, in Chicago, that day at pile 1, the first sustained nuclear reaction, how on earth do you carry on? By faith.

Ok, people are asking everywhere well you guys are standing on the edge of an open door, what do you see?

Well its too exciting a day for us to be thinking deeply and making lists. Yesterday in this thread I mentioned a few of the frontiers.

But of course since we are scientists we are still thinking about it and so one thing in there relates to this...
www.msnbc.msn.com...

And so we are thinking of those quantum foam bubbles, and if they expand and contract and if inside them is a pure vacuum, that exists if the expansion of the universe was pulling outward on the skin of the bubble.

So then they exist in a kind of equilibrium, and result in the kind of universe we see, almost balanced between expansion and contraction.

So then what if since there is a vacuum inside those bubbles at some locations they might just deflate by themselves and lose pressure. lol Well these are the kind of questions we will be asking ourselves and keep in mind the universe probably doesn't care what we think and it is a very slow moving thing by comparison to us humans.

reply to post by Rocketman7


So then again here, using this an example,
www.msnbc.msn.com...
what probably occurred there based on what we know now, is a change of phase.

So the matter shrank, and then it will move towards the sun. And that empty space will be a gravity well, but offset by dark energy streaming out of the sun, that you cannot see. So that makes it in a state of equilibrium again.

But then how do planets form? Well you would think by now we would have that for certain. But we are still watching closely. Basically at this point we assume that it is static forces and gravitational, and they can form at wave crests of dark energy that streams out in spherical wave fronts. From the star. A sphere with shells and each spherical shell would represent a spherical wave crest, based on the energy pushing the wave out from the star and usually we can then calculate the distance from the star, where planets would form.

And so if they are riding on a wave while falling into a well, planets spin. And depending on which side of that wave front they sit, they might spin one way or another. So since we still can't see dark energy, we have to keep using theory but we are much closer today.

So we assume that dust and space particles of all kinds glom together and then it creates a gravity well and since waves tend to help concentrate stuff in a field like on the ocean, you have tides and debris follows pathways. It gloms up by itself and as it does in space it becomes heavier, and it resists expansion of the universe, which then makes it harder, and more dense and makes the gravity well deeper as it collects more matter but what makes it round, is it expanding, and it rolling along on an invisible wave crest.

Originally posted by Rocketman7
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

So we assume that dust and space particles of all kinds glom together and then it creates a gravity well and since waves tend to help concentrate stuff in a field like on the ocean, you have tides and debris follows pathways. It gloms up by itself and as it does in space it becomes heavier, and it resists expansion of the universe, which then makes it harder, and more dense and makes the gravity well deeper as it collects more matter but what makes it round, is it expanding, and it rolling along on an invisible wave crest.

SO it would take waaaay too much explaining to explain how that could happen. So it is so much easier if we think in terms of high and low pressure areas. And if things are expanding, or if they are pulsing in and out, is that enough to accomplish the same thing and then is that how it works? You see we will be asking questions and looking for answers for a long time. And lets suppose we make a device like a small version of CERN, well we have lasers, what could we do with a real space age disintegrator? Or can we keep a tunnel open by using a beam to blow the quantum foam bubbles out of the way, make a usable practical transporter? Today its complete science fiction but who knows. Keep that tunnel open and send things through maybe they get from A to B very quickly. But like I say right now we are just standing in the doorway looking out into space.

Planck length is about 10 to the −20 of the diameter of a proton. I couldn't find any estimate of the size of the Higgs particle. Anyone seen an estimate yet?

Here's something that I found interesting...

Warning: video

Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by dxdydz

 

An electron exists, has energy and has zero mass. and it is preciselly that which is the Higgs-Bosun.
the field is created when ,Higgs reacts to this time/space perspective.
we the see the field created.
in my opinion.

Erm, electrons are NOT zero-mass.

physics.nist.gov...
Nonlink version: It takes 1836 electrons approximately, to equal the mass of one proton.

Originally posted by SlasherOfVeils

Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by dxdydz

 

An electron exists, has energy and has zero mass. and it is preciselly that which is the Higgs-Bosun.
the field is created when ,Higgs reacts to this time/space perspective.
we the see the field created.
in my opinion.

Erm, electrons are NOT zero-mass.

physics.nist.gov...
Nonlink version: It takes 1836 electrons approximately, to equal the mass of one proton.

dxdydz
your quote,
too which i was referering,,erm

posted on 3-7-2012 @ 10:50 PM

"An electron exists, has energy and has zero mass.
When the electron interacts with the Higgs Field it appears to an outside observer to have a mass.
It takes a force now to accelerate the electron and the electron moves at below the speed of light now.
It's like the Higgs Field acts as a frictional force."
"It's like a person trying to run in water. If we didn't know the water existed we would think the person running through water was more massive.
The Higgs Field does not create particles."

THIS
"the field is created when ,Higgs reacts to this time/space perspective.
we the see the field created.
in my opinion. "
IS my quote,,and thoughts,,
keep seperate please,,

now where YOU SAY "An electron exists, has energy and has zero mass."

then tell ME,,
Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by dxdydz

An electron exists, has energy and has zero mass. and it is preciselly that which is the Higgs-Bosun.

the field is created when ,Higgs reacts to this time/space perspective.
we the see the field created.
in my opinion.



Erm, electrons are NOT zero-mass.

physics.nist.gov...
Nonlink version: It takes 1836 electrons approximately, to equal the mass of one proton.



"Erm, electrons are NOT zero-mass."
"An electron exists, has energy and has zero mass."

SO WHICH IS IT?,,

reply to post by BobAthome


If you removed the Higgs Field and Bosons electrons would have no mass.
This is what the scientists are saying. I didn't invent this out of thin air.
Here is a link that will help you understand my position.
public.web.cern.ch...

from the link:
"They suggested that all particles had no mass just after the Big Bang. As the Universe cooled and the temperature fell below a critical value, an invisible force field called the ‘Higgs field’ was formed together with the associated ‘Higgs boson’. The field prevails throughout the cosmos: any particles that interact with it are given a mass via the Higgs boson. The more they interact, the heavier they become, whereas particles that never interact are left with no mass at all"

Originally posted by dxdydz
reply to post by BobAthome

 

If you removed the Higgs Field and Bosons electrons would have no mass.
This is what the scientists are saying. I didn't invent this out of thin air.
Here is a link that will help you understand my position.
public.web.cern.ch...

from the link:
"They suggested that all particles had no mass just after the Big Bang. As the Universe cooled and the temperature fell below a critical value, an invisible force field called the ‘Higgs field’ was formed together with the associated ‘Higgs boson’. The field prevails throughout the cosmos: any particles that interact with it are given a mass via the Higgs boson. The more they interact, the heavier they become, whereas particles that never interact are left with no mass at all"

ok, sorry its just so new, and now having it confirmed as scientific fact,, too a nerd,, like me, is like ,,winning the dart game on a 60,60, bull too win the match??
they are basically confirming age old theory of the magic etheir which permeates all things, but has no mass,but only when it wants,,
thats the best i can think of,, not , any type of qoute or this guy said,,
i appoligize. for being rude.

Originally posted by BobAthome

they are basically confirming age old theory of the magic etheir which permeates all things, but has no mass,but only when it wants

The ether idea of 19th century physics was not a "magic ether" but some proposals for concrete physics to explain the recently developed Maxwell's equations. It turned out to be not true. Not because it was nonsense, but because experimental evidence contradicted its predictions.

As it turns out, there is no ether or underlying substrate interacting with electromagnetism, but there is something interacting with everything else, called the Higgs field. Experimental evidence confirms its predictions.

It's physics, not mysticism.

You know that along the way in the last 50 years there have been many variants of particle theories proposed, and nearly all of them have been discarded because of experimental evidence. The one that's left is called the Standard Model.

Here is a great way to see why we want to know more about the fabric of space-time.

Now if you take a rubber ball and make it mechanical so it pulses in and out and sit it on top of the water.

It is there like in free space pulsing in and out.

So now attach a string under it and drag it under the water. Different pressure density zone, maybe a gravitational field around a massive body as opposed to the space station.

So it is acting differently, and maybe it doesn't pulse out as far and maybe it has a shorter period, the time it takes to make one pulse, and now drag it quickly through the water.

What do you see? You see an even shorter period, and even smaller expanded size.

So the pressure density of an area affects its operation, but when we move it quickly through a Higgs Field, (in this case the water) you see it is gaining mass, and now the period is shorter, the expansion less, and its density as an object is greater.

All of this is important to physics and molecular physics and molecular chemistry and biology.
Where is the gravity around a molecule? Well it is sitting a well. How deep is that well? It is the depth you would expect from those elements since they have atomic weight.

So then in a gravity well, does it affect the object? Well we just showed that using the ball it does affect it.

And atoms do pulse in and out.

reply to post by Rocketman7


Atoms pulse in and out.
Gravitational Time Dilation
en.wikipedia.org...

Experimental confirmation

Gravitational time dilation has been experimentally measured using atomic clocks on airplanes. The clocks aboard the airplanes were slightly faster with respect to clocks on the ground. The effect is significant enough that the Global Positioning System's artificial satellites need to have their clocks corrected.[2]

Additionally, time dilations due to height differences of less than 1 meter have been experimentally verified in the laboratory.[3]

Gravitational time dilation has also been confirmed by the Pound–Rebka experiment, observations of the spectra of the white dwarf Sirius B and experiments with time signals sent to and from Viking 1 Mars lander.

So as we showed in the previous post that the period is shorter and the expansion less, that means atoms are going faster, and as such time is going faster.

So people tend to think that well yes but relativistic speeds you know, however, most processes within the operation of atoms, is at c. EM waves travel at c, magnetism, and dark energy, it all happens at c.
E=mc2

So it is important even though it is small if it affects the way atoms interact or bonds form. Or in the case of astronomy which is interested in large scale effects, how does it affect things in and around black holes, or in the case of planets, where would they form, or why are there gas giants closer than we expect, all these questions related to mass and gravity.
Inertial mass is another part of mass and gravity. You have intrinsic mass, the mass an object has of its own, like weight, and then you have inertial mass. Mass you gain as you move.

reply to post by Rocketman7


Thanks for your reply and attempt to explain how it all fits together. Some of it is above my "pay-grade" and do I not understand. I always find physics interesting and feel amazed how properties in nature are able to realise our fantasies, dreams and needs.