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Two RAF Tornado GR4s down in Scotland

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posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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Two Tornado GR4s have crashed in the Moray Firth, Scotland while conducting training from Lossiemouth. One aircraft has been sighted in the water, the other remains lost at this time.

No news on the crews.




posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by RichardPrice
 


i've been trying to get the.. kinloss rescue live feed.. that's in the moray firth area but i'm at work can any one help its usually easy to find a live stream



found one (not sure if its live)
edit on 3-7-2012 by DukeEligos because: linkyness



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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I'm sure there is a live feed from RNLI at Buckie also . Will check .
God , I hope everybody is ok

I used to watch those guys from Spey Bay and they used to do some pretty amazing manoeuvres.
edit on 3-7-2012 by dawnprince because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-7-2012 by dawnprince because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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Kinloss Rescue


Not sure if its live...



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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They've pulled one crew from the water, still another two crew members missing though...

These GR4's really have a habit of falling out the sky, don't they? Pretty much every Tornado crash over the past decade has been one.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
They've pulled one crew from the water, still another two crew members missing though...

These GR4's really have a habit of falling out the sky, don't they? Pretty much every Tornado crash over the past decade has been one.


I think you are seeing observer bias there, as since 2002 there has been 8 Tornado crashes (not including these two), 2 of which were F.3s, with the rest being various GR.4s which isn't surprising since they make up the bulk of the RAFs Tornado fleet - the F.3s numbered only about 40 operational aircraft since 2002, while the GR4s are currently still on the books at 140 aircraft.

The GR4s fly more, fly longer and have more stress put on the airframes - of course you are going to see more losses than an airframe which is flown less, flown for shorter missions and has less stress on the airframe per mission.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by RichardPrice
 


Yes, most likely! You have succinctly answered my query regarding this particular aircraft


That would certainly explain why the GR4's seem to "crash more".. I suppose it's like saying a Ford Focus is more likely to be in a car crash than a Ferrari... As there are more, it stands to reason





posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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I wonder if this is why I have seen so manyTyphoons airborne at the east coast today? I sincerely hope the absence of the Nimrod fleet, or a replacement, isn't having a detrimental effect on finding these guys.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by waynos
 


Just you wait until 2015 when the RAF SAR is "privatised".....

>shudder



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:02 PM
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Hopefully the other two crew members will be found ok. Thoughts and prayers will be with the crew members that were rescued, as well as the two that have yet to be found.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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Is there any detail on what caused the crash?

I am assuming a collision between the two, in which case it might not bode well for the missing crew members as often one aircraft takes lighter damage and the other gets pummelled... Just speculation on my part though..



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by stumason
 


They said that they were on a practice bomb run during the training. So it may have been a midair on rejoin, or at some point during the flight.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by stumason
 

Please tell me your joking. Privatizing RAF Search & Rescue - one of the most important missions of the RAF? Good God you Brits really need to quit with the cutbacks.

Pretty soon you wont even have enough troops to mount the Changing of the Guard outside Buckingham Palace!

Hope they find the 2 missing aircrew. Let's hope they had time to bailout.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by ChrisF231
 


Nope.... Williams tour with SAR ends with the privatisation of possibly one of the most important and enduring RAF missions....

God knows why they think private companies are better. Everything that has been privatised has seen costs rise, as is natural, because when Government does it they do it at cost, whereas private firms will do it at cost + margin...



In 2006, the government announced controversial plans to effectively privatise provision of search and rescue helicopters in order to replace the aging Sea Kings currently in use, although they have suggested that crews may, at least partially, still be made up of military personnel.[5]

In February 2010, Soteria SAR was announced as the preferred bidder for the UK SAR programme.[6]. On 8 February 2011, days before the contract was due to be signed, the UK Government halted the process after Soteria admitted that it had unauthorised access to commercially sensitive information regarding the programme.

While this contract is being renegotiated, a "Gap" contract was tendered for the existing MCA bases and in February 2012 it was announced that Bristow Helicopters would take over the running of Stornoway and Sumburgh (using Sikorsky S-92s) and that Portland and Lee on Solent (using AgustaWestland AW139s) would be retained by CHC.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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Loch Ness Monster STRIKES AGAIN!






































second line



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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The search was called off due to bad weather, but they plan to resume in the morning. Both crew members from the second aircraft are still missing. No word on the condition of the two crew members that were recovered yet.

My OPINION is that the crew that is still missing made a mistake during the rejoin after a bombing run, and the two aircraft collided. I'm afraid that it's not going to be a good ending for them if they're still missing. If they did collide, depending on how they hit, they may have never gotten out of the jet.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 12:14 AM
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A military source, that wasn't named, has said that the aircraft collided in thick fog during a low level training flight. This hasn't been confirmed yet.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by RichardPrice
The GR4s fly more, fly longer and have more stress put on the airframes - of course you are going to see more losses than an airframe which is flown less, flown for shorter missions and has less stress on the airframe per mission.


They're also flying a much lower and generally hairier flight profile than the typical F.3 mission.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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One crew member confirmed dead, one in a critical but stable condition and the remaining two are listed as missing, with the emphasis now on recovery rather than rescue



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by RichardPrice
 


That's sad to hear. Always bad when we lose aircraft and crew members. Prayers are with their families and the survivor that he makes a recovery.



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