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Stand Up For The Freedom of Women

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posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by TheFogHorn
 


Are you asking us to try and interfere with the Muslims' right to practice their religion in their own country?

Wow. Controlling much? If they think it's that bad, let them change it. You have no right to do anything more. Oh, and if you don't like it (I'm guessing you live in a Muslim neighborhood) then MOVE OUT. Simple as that.

It's like my parents always told me: "Don't like the rules? Find another place to live."




posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

Dear AfterInfinity,


Are you asking us to try and interfere with the Muslims' right to practice their religion in their own country?

I believe Ron Paul's position is to not intervene in another country. That position does have some support. Perhaps it's your position also?

Do you think that the US should never intervene in another country regardless of what it's government is doing to its citizens? Does it matter if the government is doing it for religious reasons, cultural reasons, or just because it's sadistic?

My own feeling is that there are some indignities that we can't turn away from and still be the country we always have been. I think the rest of the country, all recent presidents, and candidates, would agree.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Who interfered in our country when the blacks were being mistreated? No one. Why? Because we didn't allow them to. So when stuff goes wrong in other countries, suddenly we have the right to invade them and change their laws for them?

That's called a double standard, something I don't approve of...no matter the cost.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by TheFogHorn
 


Are you asking us to try and interfere with the Muslims' right to practice their religion in their own country?

Wow. Controlling much? If they think it's that bad, let them change it. You have no right to do anything more. Oh, and if you don't like it (I'm guessing you live in a Muslim neighborhood) then MOVE OUT. Simple as that.

It's like my parents always told me: "Don't like the rules? Find another place to live."


Not worthy of a response.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 05:15 PM
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www.newsrealblog.com...

Posting this article again here just to make sure people see it.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

Dear AfterInfinity,

Thanks for the conversation, I think I understand your point. It seems that many people and groups, including the UN, may disagree, but as I said some others hold your position as well.


So when stuff goes wrong in other countries, suddenly we have the right to invade them and change their laws for them?
That's called a double standard, something I don't approve of...no matter the cost.
Although, we don't have to pay the cost, it's paid by the people of whatever country has "stuff going wrong." And I still think loss of freedom and life is a pretty big cost.

But perhaps we won't agree. I don't like double standards either, but I don't see it as the greatest offense against a people. You remember, "All that it takes for Evil to triumph is ...."

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by TheFogHorn
 


I believe that typing and posting something in answer to a post is called a "response".

And your sentiment tells me that you have nothing better to say. Interesting.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


That was before modern America and "patriotism" happened.

edit on 3-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

Dear AfterInfinity,

I do enjoy a thoughtful conversation. Your last comment, though, flew right by me. Would you care to amplify a bit?

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 09:40 PM
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. Muslim men in muslim countries or areas are not encouraged to develop their character and treatment of women.


You hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, this can be construed as not exclusive of the muslim community. Males of all 'faiths' pretend to call up 'holy documents' in the guise of being nothing more than bullies. MEN, however, have no need for such paltry actions. They have developed the character and wherewithal to know that A. Repressing or abusing women is wrong in every sense and B. They are secure enough in who they are as men. A WOMAN will not instigate or provoke such responses in a MAN. Females who are also undeveloped in their character make males overreact... and these examples breed and become the mindless, uncivilized masses that we have today. A man is respectable, and demands respect, just as a woman is respectable, and demands respect. She or he can be as wild as a march hare without being a cad or slut... they can be athiest or orthodox... they can be vegetarian or carnivore for that matter. BUT the strictures written about in those dusty, moldy old tomes were misguided, tampered, tinkered and twisted into tools that perverted what was at first a good idea, somewhere way, way back in the old days, when they thought all it would take is developing CHARACTER.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by TheFogHorn
 

Hey FogHorn!


Originally posted by TheFogHorn
Hamas, reportedly used "a mixture of consent and coercion" to "'restore' hijab" on urban educated women in Gaza in the late 1970s and 1980s.....

I was a bit confused here, but when I checked the wiki page, it said a "Predecessor" of Hamas (the Mujama' al-Islami, a non-governmental charity) that did this. When I check the reference, seems you can't access the actual article, but that is irrelevant. I just wanted to correct this point, it seemed odd that you edited your quote in that way.

How exactly do you plan on standing up for the freedoms of women? Do you also support the banning of the hijab? In what way should one "stand up" for women's freedoms? What about the women who actively choose to wear a hijab? Do you allow them the freedom to do this as well? I get the feeling you are not quite understanding the different kinds of headcoverings, or you are conflating the issues. A Hijab isn't a "head shroud" that makes the wearer "totally hidden". The face is totally visible.
You say that your thread isn't about the women who actively choose to wear the hijab, but those that are forced into it. I agree, forcing anyone is wrong, but how exactly would you find out who is forced and who is not? Invasions of privacy? You might be interested to know that I have visited many of these "Muslim" countries, and outside of Saudi Arabia, I only ever met one woman who was "forced" to wear anything (a burka in her case, not a hijab, but she later separated from her husband, and doesn't wear it anymore, so I'm not sure that even counts).


Originally posted by TheFogHorn
The truth, in the UK at least, is that they do whatever they can to get in the door and move directly to one of the muslim areas. They mostly make no effort to integrate and mostly have no intention of changing their attire, their language, their religion or their customs. These muslim areas are lorded over by Islamists who the British cannot remove due to human rights laws. They build mosques in the thousands, the big ones usually funded by hardline Wahabi Saudis.

That certainly isn't exclusive to muslims, it is the same with all immigrants. People want to be with similar people. And why should they have to change their attire, religion or customs? There are about 1600 mosques in the UK...dunno where the "thousands" came from, and the Wahabi-backed ones account for barely 6% of those. Hilariously enough, according to a survey in 2009, more than 3 quarters of the Muslims in the England identify "very strongly" with Britishness and being British (as opposed to only half of the general population).


Originally posted by charles1952
Consider for a moment the cartoon of two women posted in this thread. Could you post a drawing of a woman in a revealing swimsuit in every Islamic country? You can here. In the West, women can go to the beach in a bikini or a burka. Are women in Islamic countries allowed the same choice?

Post? By letter? On a forum on the internet? I don't know where you get your information from, but most muslim countries aren't going to do anything to you for having seen or stored a drawing of a woman in a revealing swimsuit. And I don't know how far "west" you consider France, but no, you cannot wear a burka on a beach in France. You cannot even wear a hijab on the beach in France. You cannot even wear long swimming trunks, never mind a full-body swimsuit.


The most surprising part of this thread for me was the prevalent idea that we need to "Help out these poor women whose freedoms and equality is being threatened". Doesn't that give the underlying implication that you think these women are somehow mentally incapable of standing up for themselves, and need to be "assisted"? Interventionalism from outside parties has never fostered positive change. Revolution and evolution from within has, and is.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 02:23 AM
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sad actually




posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 04:25 AM
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reply to post by TheFogHorn
 


What sort or sorts of action are you proposing--to stand up for the freedom of women?



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by redneck13
 


What the Taliban have done to women in Afghanistan is reprehensible, no one would claim otherwise. The question is, is the Taliban the norm of Islam, or the exception?

If the norm in Islam is for women to wear burqa, then why do we not see more women in burqa?

As for Afghanistan, I don't know the solution. The only thing that can be done, I suspect, is for the men and women who are against such extremes to make their voices heard. Hard to do when the ones in control have machine guns, I recognize that.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by redneck13

sad actually



Very sad. Headscarves in the West are the think end of the wedge that Islam always moves along. It is the sweet and innocent PR front of the evil to come.



If the above doesn't work then look here....www.youtube.com...



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Show me some examples of Islam becoming less hardline and the faith in Islam remaining liberal in the West will have some logic.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


A woman speaks out for her rights but hits a brick wall



It begins when there is enough population to agitate for their rights.
There are countries worse than Afghanistan

edit on 4-7-2012 by redneck13 because: ,



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 





What the Taliban have done to women in Afghanistan is reprehensible, no one would claim otherwise. The question is, is the Taliban the norm of Islam, or the exception?


The norm for Islam is to pattern themselves after Muhammad and it applies to every aspect of their lives. In essence they are running on the teachings of a madman hellbent on conquering the world and they even model their wars and attacks like him. When Muhammad wanted to conquer Mecca and force Islam on the pagan city, he feigned a peace treaty until he could build up enough troops to take the city and when he had enough warriors he made war on Mecca and conquered it. So they still follow his battle strategies today, and it is called Jihad.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by TheFogHorn

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by TheFogHorn
So what you're saying is that you have no concern for the women whose lives are being affected detrimentally due to these Miss Headscarves setting a precedent in their predominantly muslim areas? This is my point. You need to start to think in terms of how it affects and will affect non-muslim women.


Who are you to say that it's affecting them badly?

That's your opinion, not a fact on what's going on.

How is this affecting non-muslim women? 99% of all muslims I know, don't want anybody but muslims subscribing to their cultural norms. Only the extremists cry about Sharia law and whatever else nonsense they want.

You need to start thinking how your idea of changing things is actually the same as asking Christians to stop going to church because I think it's indoctrination.

~Tenth


I've said several times now on this forum that I have been the victim of chronic sexual abuse and religious cleansing. That explains the 'who are you to say' stance.


You're experiences are not indicative of how the rest of the muslim world treats each other. There are 1.57 Billion of them on planet earth.

What happened to you was very unfortunate, but to use that as a means to judge an entire group of people is wrong.

I've had my fair share of religious bigots and zealots picket my lawn because I am gay and me and my husband have raised 4 children together in a relatively conservative community. I don't use those experiences to judge people I have never met.

Neither should you.

~Tenth



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


If you follow the book your in,
Slavery has never been abolished
Many black converts or reverts do not know this history before they converted believing that they were originally Muslim before they were sold into slavery. They were not. People should research their history before they convert or revert.



When doing research on African slavery I came across this video and was surprised about the slave trade in the Middle East, especially around North Africa. This explains the current genocide that is going on in Darfur and the Sudan. I could see the link with the past that this has been going on for 14 centuries. This person wrote this book about slavery in Islamic states. John Alembillah Alembillah Azumah The book is called Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa: A Quest for Inter-Religious Dialogue



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