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Physicists Get Closer Than Ever to God Particle

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posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 11:24 PM
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www.space.com...



American scientists have found strong hints that the rumored Higgs boson particle exists, and has been created inside an atom smasher in Illinois. The news comes just days before big news on the search for the Higgs is expected to be delivered by physicists from the world's largest particle accelerator, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC). "This is a very exciting week — it may be the most exciting week in physics since I became a physicist," Joe Lykken, a theoretical physicist at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory (Fermilab) in Batavia, Ill., said during a news conference today (July 2).


What do you guys think? Is it actually the god particle and they're just being true scientists and not saying until they're 10000% sure?

Not gonna lie, I feel a decent amount of misplaced civic pride as I can see Fermi Lab from my house (doncha know!). Not to say I truly understand the specifics of the experiments, but I have a buddy who's a physicist up at Fermi Lab and I racked his brain for a while a few years back. His big claim to fame was the muon tests they did (IIRC he was one of the big guys on discovering the muon prior) where they shot a beam through the ground from Fermi Lab to a site in like Minnesota to test if it had mass (theory was it didn't, but this test proved it did as it's path was diverted ever so slightly).

This was 6 years ago and I remember vividly him saying that the next thing they were going to have to do was find the Higgs boson. Way cool that they finally did. Or not, depending on your opinion.

Smart people, speculate and explain at great length in ATS terms!




posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 11:32 PM
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this means, that linear + - straight line atomic physics , can now include,,the WAVE.
higgs is what makes Fibiachi? sequence ,now a , Atomically proven fact.
so yes higgs is why we have sea-shell design.
it is now,,
A+B+C=wave theory wins.
string theory,, boo,

C being higgs,,
ya its random,,but intelligent

higgs-busun-mate



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by Vrill
 


There are many "events" that have been observed could be interactions between the Higgs Boson, but they also could just as likely, not be the Higgs.

There have been many attempts to define just how "massive" the Higgs is and as we do more and more collisions (smashing up particles to see what bits fall out), we have been narrowing the upper and lower mass limits for some time now.

Theoretically, the Higgs could have several possible masses and with each possibility there are related by-products in our understanding of the way the universe works.

As we hone in on the actual figure, we can discard those that aren't right and can determine much more about the fundamentals of things.

At present there is a theoretical construct called the standard model which allows us to calculate results and understand the universe. The thing is, it is all theory and may not be correct. An understanding of the mass of the Higgs could reveal that we are either on the right track, or totally missing the point.


edit on 2/7/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by chr0naut
 


"how "massive" the Higgs is"

has no mass,, yet creates mass


"understanding of the mass of the Higgs" has none.
thats why it is spacial in perspective and seemingly at will.


edit on 2-7-2012 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)

complicated its called unified field theory.
and higgs is the third leg.
in recognized Physics.
edit on 2-7-2012 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:20 AM
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The higgs is a non particle virtual particle. It is made of a pair of singularities (space time tortion fields) in the field formation of a lorenz attractor. It has the function of acting as a inversion mecanism to transmit the information stored in the pattern or image of the space time to the source of conciousness (God) releasing it's patterned form as a form of energy. Thus "god particle" is an apt name. It is similar in behavior to an emulator or virtual device in a computer that archives then deletes information.

Two views of reality: Quantum reality, everything is made of discrete particles and is ultimately "stuff" existing in empty space; Non-quantum reality AKA Special Relativity: is that all is one field with a holographic pattern imposed upon it that is giving the illusion of stuff existing. Both views are not entirely correct.

The truth is that everything is not really real IF it exists in time; Consiousness itself exists beyond time, therefore though the mathematics may prove stuff like the higgs exist at a point in time, it is provable yet not really "true". All that is, was and will be is pure and infinite awareness, all else is an illusion created by a pattered field of time/space created by a coherent thought of awareness divided by the singularity of knowing of it's own existence. The Universe is the answer to the question: What is it that I am that I am not?

This discovery means that the world as we know it will soon end. Those who believe the physical is the ultimate reality will cease to exist, those that believe the truth is God AS God will continue.

The Bhagavad Gita explains this quite well in the 13th chapter of the Knower and the Field.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by chr0naut
 


"how "massive" the Higgs is"

has no mass,, yet creates mass


"understanding of the mass of the Higgs" has none.
thats why it is spacial in perspective and seemingly at will.


edit on 2-7-2012 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)

complicated its called unified field theory.
and higgs is the third leg.
in recognized Physics.
edit on 2-7-2012 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)


The current data hints at a possibility the Higgs may exist with a mass around 125 GeV/c2 (about 133 proton masses, on the order of 10−25 kg).

So, not massless.

I think you are confusing it with the Higgs field, which permeates all space and grants mass to other elementary particles (in the standard model).

edit on 3/7/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 02:25 AM
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reply to post by chr0naut
 


Q for the particle physicsists: Does the Higgs boson have a self interaction which is reponsible for its mass? I.e. is its mass created in from the same effect in the electroweak sector that gives mass to elementary leptons?



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Vrill
 


There are many "events" that have been observed could be interactions between the Higgs Boson, but they also could just as likely, not be the Higgs


Did you even read up on this? It is a 2.9 sigma discovery, so only 1 in 1,000 it is not the Higgs Boson. So no, not just as likely not.

A 5 sigma is required for discovery, that means 1 in 1,000,000 the result was random.

Credit will have to be shared, as the American facility first saw glimpses and brought us to this moment, but the LHC will be required to find it.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by mbkennel
reply to post by chr0naut
 


Q for the particle physicsists: Does the Higgs boson have a self interaction which is reponsible for its mass? I.e. is its mass created in from the same effect in the electroweak sector that gives mass to elementary leptons?


Yes, that is the most logical and likely situation, but the Higgs would not "self effect" in isolation, it would however be affected by other Higgses.

The Higgs field implies a vast distribution of Higgs Bosons throughout all space.


edit on 4/7/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Vrill
 


There are many "events" that have been observed could be interactions between the Higgs Boson, but they also could just as likely, not be the Higgs


Did you even read up on this? It is a 2.9 sigma discovery, so only 1 in 1,000 it is not the Higgs Boson. So no, not just as likely not.

A 5 sigma is required for discovery, that means 1 in 1,000,000 the result was random.

Credit will have to be shared, as the American facility first saw glimpses and brought us to this moment, but the LHC will be required to find it.


They have stated that they have observed a "new" particle with a 5 sigma confidence, yet no-one is yet saying that this is the Higgs.

It would be a damn shame to build the human race's entire future concept of physics on some random, but rare, mistake.


edit on 4/7/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by eywadevotee
 

WOW! Why the HELL did you come to this conclusion!?

Are we a bit sensitive today? LOL! Just Busting! Or in this case Smashing Particles like a kid who cracks open an Igneous Rock hoping to find some Pretty Quartz Crystals or perhaps some Mica. But sometimes the Kid finds something inside the Rock that cannot be identified. So the Kid may make a mistake and say they have discovered this or that...but in reality it is not this or that at all.

Split Infinity



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by mbkennel
reply to post by chr0naut
 


Q for the particle physicsists: Does the Higgs boson have a self interaction which is reponsible for its mass? I.e. is its mass created in from the same effect in the electroweak sector that gives mass to elementary leptons?


Yes, that is the most logical and likely situation, but the Higgs would not "self effect" in isolation, it would however be affected by other Higgses.

The Higgs field implies a vast distribution of Higgs Bosons throughout all space.


edit on 4/7/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)


Right, so a "real" Higgs boson interacts primarily with the background field (only "virtual" bosons).

Does this physics explain/predict the otherwise arbitrary mass ratios? Ignoring composite particles such as nucleons which must be much more difficult, can you predict muon/electron mass ratio (same for their neutrinos), W vs electron or something like that? Seems as though there are still all sorts of fiddly parameters.

If the Higgs field gives something intertial mass, is there some profound reason for predicting the equivalence principle why intertial mass is gravitational mass? And if this is some physical effect, is it possible to alter it technologically?



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 10:27 PM
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I have a question regarding the mass of a particle maybe someone knowledgeable might answer. We all know that when we accelerate in a vehicle and as long as we accelerate we gain weight known as g force. Since mass and acceleration are linked why cant the acceleration of the expanding universe give rise to mass? why does it have to be a higgs field?



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by minor007
I have a question regarding the mass of a particle maybe someone knowledgeable might answer. We all know that when we accelerate in a vehicle and as long as we accelerate we gain weight known as g force. Since mass and acceleration are linked why cant the acceleration of the expanding universe give rise to mass? why does it have to be a higgs field?


The expansion OF the Universe is different from the acceleration of "stuff" inside it. Higgs explains the origin of inertial mass at a particle level, meaning stuff inside the universe.

The Higgs field explains in the first place why when you're in a car, you have to accelerate in the first place, i.e. why aren't all the particles zero mass like photons going at the speed of light.

The global geometry of the Universe comes from General Relativity (and maybe more physics still) and that's something different.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by mbkennel
 


I am still confused.

When the particle is at rest, its relativistic mass has a minimum value called the "rest mass" and the rest mass is always the same for the same type of particle. Protons, electrons, and neutrons have the same rest mass; As the particle is accelerated to ever higher speeds, its relativistic mass increases without limit.

since we are moving at the same rate as everything else then the rest mass is only relative since we are moving at the same speed.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Vrill
 


There are many "events" that have been observed could be interactions between the Higgs Boson, but they also could just as likely, not be the Higgs


Did you even read up on this? It is a 2.9 sigma discovery, so only 1 in 1,000 it is not the Higgs Boson. So no, not just as likely not.

A 5 sigma is required for discovery, that means 1 in 1,000,000 the result was random.

Credit will have to be shared, as the American facility first saw glimpses and brought us to this moment, but the LHC will be required to find it.


They have stated that they have observed a "new" particle with a 5 sigma confidence, yet no-one is yet saying that this is the Higgs.

It would be a damn shame to build the human race's entire future concept of physics on some random, but rare, mistake.


edit on 4/7/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)


That is the new report from CERN, not the report from the American Lab which I believe this OP is based on. The CERN discovery I think was downgraded to a 4.9, but I have read conflicting reports of that. You are wrong though, they are saying this is acting like the Higgs, so while they are stopping short of saying it is the Higgs, they are trying their best to be scientists while saying they found what they were looking for. Now the question is whether or not this "Higgs" acts as expected or if it has a few twists that were not expected which change the way we view the Standard Model and our universe.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 12:38 AM
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All of this seems like a waste of money n time to study.... They wont ever figure it out. Never



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by mbkennel

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by mbkennel
reply to post by chr0naut
 


Q for the particle physicsists: Does the Higgs boson have a self interaction which is reponsible for its mass? I.e. is its mass created in from the same effect in the electroweak sector that gives mass to elementary leptons?


Yes, that is the most logical and likely situation, but the Higgs would not "self effect" in isolation, it would however be affected by other Higgses.

The Higgs field implies a vast distribution of Higgs Bosons throughout all space.


edit on 4/7/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)


Right, so a "real" Higgs boson interacts primarily with the background field (only "virtual" bosons).

Does this physics explain/predict the otherwise arbitrary mass ratios? Ignoring composite particles such as nucleons which must be much more difficult, can you predict muon/electron mass ratio (same for their neutrinos), W vs electron or something like that? Seems as though there are still all sorts of fiddly parameters.

If the Higgs field gives something intertial mass, is there some profound reason for predicting the equivalence principle why intertial mass is gravitational mass? And if this is some physical effect, is it possible to alter it technologically?


No, these are not necessarily virtual Higgs bosons. The reason it is so hard to detect is that the Higgs boson is so pervasive and fundamental. The majority of Higgs bosons are not collision by-products (the way we are trying to detect it at the LHC) but are the actual background of space.

You could imagine it as if some matter moves through the Higgs field (made up of vast numbers of Higgs bosons) with very little interaction, therefore this matter has low or no mass (like Photons). Other matter drags through the field and is slowed by it. This matter has higher mass. Mass does not therefore depend on bulk of the particle, it is more like a point force on the particle and is mediated by the interaction between the particle and the field. In this, mass becomes like a type of charge on the particle. The Higgs boson is just as subject to this "drag" as any other particle with mass.

edit on 5/7/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by minor007
I have a question regarding the mass of a particle maybe someone knowledgeable might answer. We all know that when we accelerate in a vehicle and as long as we accelerate we gain weight known as g force. Since mass and acceleration are linked why cant the acceleration of the expanding universe give rise to mass? why does it have to be a higgs field?


Actually several brilliant questions!

Mass and gravitational attraction are related, but different things.

Gravitation is now conceived as due to the curvature/compression of the structure of space-time. This is seen as the altering of the the angular velocity of objects in motion through variable space-time. Due to relativity, ALL objects are in relative motion to other objects in space-time.

Mass causes these gradients in space-time by 'drawing together' the structure and creating higher density of space-time around the massive object. Perhaps this is actually a drawing together of the Higgs bosons making up the Higgs field?

Einsteins E=MC^2 can imply that as one accelerates, mass will increase, but another solution is that the energy required to increase the velocity (acceleration) is what increases and that mass can remain as it was. The mass-energy equivalence that falls out of the equation is also explained in Higgs (the physicist) proposition of the structure of the Higgs field.

But, there is still much we don't know! That's why getting some hard data on something like the mass of the Higgs is such a monumental step in physics.



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 01:38 AM
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I doubt VERY MUCH that what they will discover will be a Particle that they have described or does what they think it does. This is not to say there is no such thing as a Higgs-Boson Particle...but just that it most likely like as Toy demonstrated on TV...lives up to expectations.

Why do I believe this is so? Because I believe that it is not a Particle that allows Protons and Neutrons to have Mass...but that it is the interaction between Infinite Quantum Realities and that Quantum Particles are Part of this Much Larger System...that the Quantum Connectivity between all these Universal Realities is what allows Space/Time to be Created by this interconnectivity of the Quantum Particle Multiverse to the Quantum Particle Macroverse.

You can't have the Macro without the Quantum and you can't have Choice or Cause and effect without a Multiverse.
Split Infinity



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